The Cellar - Mosque at 51 Park Place, NY, NY

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- - Mosque at 51 Park Place, NY, NY (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=23158)

I am surprised, and I want to give Ron Paul credit for his statement today.
It is a long statement and I have sniped out quite a bit and added a few spaces for readability;
BUT IT IS ALL WORTH READING
( This being said by a flaming liberal who would not vote for Ron Paul for any elected office)

Ron Paul.com

Quote:

Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

<snip>

Quote:

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”
Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides.

The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?
In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.
They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

<snip>

Quote:

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque.
They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

<snip>

Quote:

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

Quote:

Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.

<snip>

Quote:

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.
We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.
Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.

Yeah, Ron Paul

Quote:

The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate

I am thankful I am missing all this attention, wherever it is that its being debated.

I have heard compelling arguments that those conservatives fueling the mosque debate are specifically doing so to distract from the fact that they voted against a bill to provide medical care and support to 9/11 first responders who are still suffering from trauma they received at that time (like inhaling smoke and crumbling building dust.)

Ron Paul may be kind of a goof, but he is dead-on right with this statement:

Quote:

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.

Quote:

The second largest shareholder in News Corp. -- the parent company of Fox News -- has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to causes linked to the imam planning to build a Muslim community center and mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan, says a report from Yahoo!News.

According to the report from Yahoo!'s John Cook, Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, who owns seven percent of News Corp., "has directly funded [Imam Feisal Abdul] Rauf's projects to the tune of more than $300,000."

link

I read another article how when the project was announced FOX News, along with the rest of the media, gave it there blessing. Four months later, Fox News stared stirring up shit. Methinks I smell politics.:eyebrow:

I'm sure Dwellars are tired of my posting about the Mosque, but please give me this one more without charge...
(Quote-formatting below is for readability only)

I was just watching a cable talk-show with NY Gov Petraki (sp ?) talking about the mosque in NYC.
His very strong position was the usual:

Quote:

THEY have the legal right to build there, but THEY should be sensitive to how WE feel about Ground Zero... etc., etc., and so on.

The very next topic was Glen Beck's crowd-gathering at the Lincoln Memorial planned for Saturday,
which is the 38th anniversary of Dr. King's "I have a dream" speech on the steps of that same Lincoln Memorial.
The talking heads argued that Beck had deliberately set his event to conflict with this anniversary.

What happened next was pure TV irony...
They had an interview with ML King Jr.,
and he started his remarks started with:

Quote:

BECK has the legal right to hold his meeting there, but HE should be sensitive to how WE feel about that date and place. etc., etc., and so on...!

You can't make up this stuff... :D

Keeping the hate alive.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. — If building an Islamic center near ground zero amounts to the epitome of Muslim insensitivity, as critics of the project have claimed, what should the world make of Terry Jones, the evangelical pastor here who plans to memorialize the Sept. 11 attacks with a bonfire of Korans?

Team play continues.

It's kind of sweet that small minds have other small minds to play with, otherwise their grandiose beliefs might just fizzle out. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Dr. Khan said that “Mr. Jones is hijacking Christianity” just as “Al Qaeda hijacked Islam.”

Funny how the shoe isn't quite as comfortable on the other foot.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I found the article very strange it seemed to jump all over the place without actually giving much information.

I hope he goes out there and burns thousands of them or his "followers" all over burn them and the idiotic press covers each asshole in their front yard with a gas can and a burning book.
Then the islamic extremists can go around to their houses and blow themselves up on the asshole's doorstep - Two birds with one bomb - rather fitting.

Quote:

I found the article very strange it seemed to jump all over the place without actually giving much information.

Kinda like one of your posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123 (Post 678666)

Kinda like one of your posts.

:thumb2::rotflol::beer:

Sounds like a good time to invest in Koran printers.

Well, at least he found the article! :lol:

Now, if you'll excuse me I have some fences to straddle and some asses that need my nose shoved firmly in them.

Ye gads, it's spreading...

I just heard on TV that the owners of the Empire State Building are complaining about a proposed new skyscraper because it will be so close and only 34 ft lower than the ESB and will block their view.

Of course, they have the right to build there but they should be sensitive to our....