Sorry for starting this shitstorm, and I'm really sorry if it makes Ibram feel less at home here. I guess I just had a really crap day myself yesterday, and some comments made here just seemed so trivial in comparison to some other stuff going on in my own life.

Sheldon, I think you're a funny man and I'm sorry for making you feel less comfortable too.

Anyway, I'm not saying I don't believe what I posted, just that under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have bothered saying anything because there'd be no point and definitely no positive outcome, and clearly that's the case here.

Once again, sorry to the community.

Ali, you offered your opinion.
Ibs disagreed with it, but again you have every right to discussion.

This is a new area for me, and a tricky one.
But although Ibby is obviously unhappy with your posts, you do not owe the Cellar an apology as a whole. Ibrica has an agenda and yes she should feel free to pursue it. I think it shows her connection to the Cellar that she comes here and is vocal.

I don't get much of it myself, Ibs.
I don't understand, I am looking for logic and I am trying to follow your lead in what is acceptible for you. By sharing you are helping to educate and elucidate.
But the Cellar is the Cellar and people have a right to question and to joke.

Now someone turn this thread back into a picture thread or you'll get a photo of my new coldsores.
Yes, I have a crop this time, as I am in the throes of another cold.
One of the wonderful reasons to work with children...

I tried really hard, though I guess not hard enough, to make the point that I'm not trying to attack you, just to say why comments like that can come across wrong.

I love you shel, please don't go!

I like that!!! Or maybe I'm trans-pandaed.

*snickers*

On the way home I saw a semi...company named TransX. The tagline was "We take a load off your mind." ;)

Too soon?

well it made me LOL INFI! :lol:

I have no prejudice against anyone for anything, but I'll be dammed if I have to walk on eggshells because some people are not comfortable enough in their own skin to have a funny bone.

I have a RFN photo. I suck at taking my own photo and I just wanted to capture the fabulous color I got my hair today. :)

Attachment 37146

Girl, that hair is the fab! So shiny. :)

:browhappy

Fabulous? Yes, that works quite well. ;)

lovely nirvana!!! btw, what category do you fall in?

Oh! Oh that is a gorgeous colour!


@ Ibs: I know you want to educate us and that's probably a good thing overall. Most of us are older than you and maybe a little stuck in our own ways. As a young person it's partly your job to re-educate us oldies. But...

Be aware there is a price sometimes. When you take offence, or pick up on a jest, it can rebound and end up hurting the person you're trying to educate. Instead of just raising awareness of a rather complex and new issue, you risk making yourself difficult to interact with. As Nirvana says, walking on eggshells.

Chin up chika. It ain't so bad. You can't change the world overnight. And people live in a world of binary definitions. Choose your battles. There will be plenty of them to come.

I have a couple of trans* friends in rl. One of whom I met through my work as a councillor, as they were campaigning for better treatment in the NHS.

I am aware of many of the issues. That said: different members of the trans* community have different opinions and attitudes to things like the use of the words 'he' and 'she' for instance. There are those who would not have found Shel's jest the least offensive and those that would.

Though I have some experience of engaging with trans* issues, I am not well up on them. I forget about little things that a trans* person will pick up on and I won't notice. There are also members of the trans* community who bring an older set of cultural references and would probably wind Ibs up no end by not getting half of what she says, despite them living it themselves.

Sorry, I deleted my post. Didn't mean to make it look dopey. lol I knew I should have been quicker.

Anyway, I just feel that there are a lot more things I want to say, but sometimes there's not much point because sometimes what you're saying falls on deaf ears simply because the person you're talking to doesn't have enough life experience to put what you're saying into a similar framework of understanding. That's what I feel the difference is between Ibram's thoughts and mine. I think sometimes youth forgets that age understands a lot more than youth thinks and isn't as old and thoughtless as perhaps youth would like to believe.

eta: Let me put it this way. You (Dana) suggested ibram should choose his battles. I believe the same. I think he has a choice about being offended by what people say. He can choose to get huffy about things, or he can simply recognise that his understanding is not the same as the other persons understanding and leave it at that.

I'd understand if someone said something horrible to him and he felt the need to arc up, but I don't see the benefit of doing it every time, especially considering the fact that it's fairly clear that Ibram has a long way to go on this path of discovery and I doubt that even he is sure where he fits, so why should he have the right to get cranky or offended if someone else doesn't either.

Anyway, I'm probably just hormonal. I'm going to just leave this thread now.

BTW, I like the hair colour Nirvana!

I edited my post a bit :p

Yeah. I agree with what you say really.

I seem to recall having a similar view about older people :p

Yes -- there it is, bottom line, well stated.