They got more then plans for the bomb from Korea. They learned how to stall and duck and weave. In the end they will get their bomb and some free refinery for civilian power. And the rest will be left scratching their heads wondering how they got away with it. We should know better.

Which is the Rush Limbaugh soundbyte interpretation. Only wacko extremists see everything in "black and white". Iran1 - the most wacko (ie Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) Iranians - are the only Iranians according to your interpretation. How many times must we read George Jr and UG logic before we finally see through their bullshit. The world is not monolithic no matter how many times wackos say it is monolithic. Also existing are Iran2, Iran3, Iran4, and Iran5 who have other opinions. Whose political power (ie the reform movement) was quashed when America said we will also "Pearl Harbor" Iran with nukes.

"Pearl Harbor"? Remember when you were warned those many years ago about the consequences of "Pearl Harboring" a sovereign nation? Welcome to what you should have known back in 2002.

Iran is bartering. What American extremists call "Fuck you" is how the other side says, "No, we offer this alternative." An honest person sees an Iran with many opinions - the other power brokers - Iran2, Iran3 ... Only wacko Americans who see "Fuck You" also want war. That is UT's intent using the same logic that also proved Saddam had WMDs.

"Axis of Evil" made it almost impossible to be an Iranian moderate. Iran2, Iran3, Iran4, and Iran5 - the other power brokers - had completely different opinions. But those moderates could no longer speak because people such as UT regard war as routine and acceptable. This goes right back to how one thinks. Even when presented with facts and numbers that said otherwise, the politics told them to "Pearl Harbor" Iraq. Reality, the numbers, ethics, and education meant nothing. And here we are again. Deja vue.

Since America has so harmed the world's trust, why should anyone believe any offer that has an American name attached to it? They should not. We still have too many such as UG who hate the world - who would fix the world in their own image. The world has every right to not trust America. It will take years to restore that trust. It will take years to prove that UG and Rush Limbaugh are only clowns. That moderates now speak and mock those clowns.

What UT sees as "Fuck you" is how negotiations barter - because trust must be first established.

Why did it take the Paris peace talks so long to end the Nam war? Because first America had to learn reality. First America had to learn reality so that others could trust what America might agree to. A Nixon wacko America could not even admit their perspective was devoid of reality. UT should first learn why Iran also has no reason to trust anything America might propose. Goes right back to the many Americans who did not learn the lessons of Saddam's WMDs. Who did not learn why they could so easily be lied to – and who automatically believed every one of those lies.

Iran will probably have some crude nuclear weapons only because the time to avert that bomb was five years ago. Could have happened if the American administration was honest. What results from the destruction of trust and honesty typically appears years and sometimes a decade later. Moderates who know this stuff were warning of these consequences years ago. But too many only hear wacko extremist (Fox News and Hannity) drumbeats. So many still did not learn the lessons of Saddam's WMDs. Who cannot tell the difference between bartering and “Fuck You”. Who do not understand why most every country in the world has so much less trust of the US government since 2000.

Learn the different between wacko rhetoric and the what really happens when negotiators barter.

Well at least the Iranians now have an honest America to barter with. Now something positive can happen.

Diplomatic posturing.

For the first time, the US is fully engaged in the diplomatic process with Iran and the US, EU and Russia are on the same page.

Given that fact, I would be posturing as well if I were an Iranian political leader, particularly if my political foundation was shaky at home.

Continued diplomacy is in our favor...and if it fails, we are also on the same page now with the EU and Russia on sanctions.

The last thing we need is neo-con rhetoric like that recently espoused by former UN ambassador John Bolton that Israel must bomb Iran.

Sanctions have always worked with Iran and Iraq.:3eye:

[sarcasm]Toppling their governments has been an unqualified success as well.[/notification]

Ya know, if we could kick the oil habit and go to any other form of energy, we could walk away from the whole area. Why the hell do we care which tyrannical fruitcake is in charge of where. It is only their economic power, based almost entirely on oil, that forces the rest of the world to give a damn.
Oh, how many times have I heard people bewail how much it will cost to convert our energy infrastructure. Billions, hundreds of billions!
Which is chump bloody change compared to the cost of continued military deployment in these areas, not to mention the human suffering and environmental costs.

Sigh. I'm just fed up with this stupid shit.

As you said, sanctions worked perfectly with Saddam. He was a threat to no one. He was actively promoting myths about WMDs because many of his neighbors could easily conquer him. We learned after the fact how weak he was. Do to sanctions and Clinton's cruise missile strikes, those who know (especially after the Saddam interviews) realized Saddam could have probably been toppled even by a civil war in years. One consensus estimate gave him only a few more years in power if we had just let him stew.

Iran has yet to see any serious sanctions. With so much of the world more distrusting the US than Iran, Iran has easily subverted many sanctions. Sanctions worked on Saddam because the world believed what the US government said. After 2002, the world routinely distrusts American claims. Now demands massive supporting facts. Rightly so.

An American that was highly respected due to Desert Storm only saw a self serving power that loves war everywhere. Axis of Evil making it obvious how dangerous America was becoming. How many even in the Cellar believed lies rather than respect for the world.

Saddam was a threat to no one. Sanctions were that effective.

Truly. Without "military socialism" the expense of conversion begins to look reachable. High-tech work unrelated to pointless violence and destruction focused on strengthening our economy sorta seems optimistic, patriotic, and forward looking. You could run a Presidential campaign on such ideas.

Another bit of the puzzle. Iran is not just after power plants...

Secret document exposes Iran’s nuclear trigger

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6955351.ece

I'm shocked! . . . NOT.

Taiwan firm: China got Iran part with nuke uses
 

Link

Guess we can add China to the list. :greenface:greenface

Ouch! Iran gets a taste of it's own medicine..


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aT3gNEy3PnhQ

Its Bush's faul . . . wait whaa???

The Fucks have been killing US troops in Iraq for years...

Obama (overtly): "Guys, meeting with Iran isn't going to actually work... get ready to fuck them."

NY Times: U.S. Speeding Up Missile Defenses in Persian Gulf