Not really something I'm concerned about nor is it something I think we should become involved with.

Nah you have to get a BJ from an intern for that.

Given Israel's military reliance on America, I think you are likely to be disappointed.

America no longer talks to anyone who does not already agree. A perfect formula for multiple wars AND how those who love wars get what they want. Exactly why America now so alienated even allies.

When America had smarter presidents, the United States would report to Eastern European nations (those behind the Iron Curtain) details of what was discussed. US rather than the USSR kept East European nations informed because a smart America talked to everyone. Warm relations between the US and those East European nations would result.

But today, 'god's chosen' US does not talk with anyone. US now dictates even TO Tony Blair what will be.

This same nation also does not do nation building? A lying president even learned that was neocon fiction.

Details of a defective George Jr were obvious beginning months after his inauguration. Norway's foreign minister accurately predicted that George Jr would destroy the Oslo Accords. Not only did the mental midget do that (fear of anything Clinton). He also invented a scam cover to replace it: Roadmap for peace. Those who were learning details back then therefore suspected - accurately.

Even George Jr's first meeting with allies (Chancellor of Germany) went very badly - long before 11 September. George Jr was alienating allies even in early 2001.

Impeachment will not work. George Jr does not make decisions. Cheney and Rumsfeld made the decisions. Sec of Treasury Paul O'Neill makes that obvious in his book. Impeach George Jr and the real president also becomes an official president. All this hatred for the world and a need for a dictatorial presidency comes directly from the head dictator himself - Cheney.

Why could George Jr not even ask a single question as Katrina charged towards New Orleans? Cheney was on a hunting trip compeltely unaware of impending disaster. Therefore the mental midget ignored Katrina; instead went to CA to collect campaign contributions. Impeaching the idiot will not go after America's enemy - Cheney.

Without arms, the plane may do 800 miles. To find military aircraft that go thousands of miles, they are slow and optimized for efficiency - bombers and transport aircraft.

To attack Iran, Israel must have complete cooperation of the US or must launch attacks through nations that are not so friendly to Israel. The exception: Turkey. But would Turkey cooperate with israel to attack Iran? Again, that very first post means immediatley consulting maps. Do you think for one minute such an attack would not have severe nuclear consequences for the entire region? Well, neocons would deny it using 'political agenda' justification - ie Cheney, George Jr, and Urbane Guerrilla.

Probably the best thing, then, that the plan came into the public domain - denial by Israel or not, nothing like a bit of unwanted exposure to help dampen the fire - even if temporarily.

Judging by the majority of commentary here, there's more belief in the story than disbelief. And that means we have good reason to be concerned. Let's face it, the architects of the Iraq situation don't exactly have a glowing CV to their name - and the idea that someone else (oy vay) might do the dirty work must be appealing. Are the perpetrators likely to conduct an objective consequences risk assessement? Why change a lifetime's habit?

That second "quote" you put up, is the first sentence from a two sentence paragraph. The second sentence is; "The extended flight range enables the IAF to attack targets well within Iran and Libya without having to refuel."
This is because they modified the internal tanks and added wing tanks. which you left out, when you quoted me. Bad tw.:rtfm:

splittin' hairs, gravyboy. Israel has had, and probally always will have, the tacit backing of the US in all it does. Check out the UN Security Council archives.... see who has most vetoed any resolutions against Israel.

How? Libya is trivial and easy. Only ocean. But will Israeli fighters fly over Syria and across the entire of Iraq without anyone asking questions? Of course not. Also your numbers assume not carrying massive bombs required to bust bunkers. Will they fly across Saudi Arabia and not be challenged? Your quote makes those assumptions. This is not buzzing Assad’s Palace. Flight parameters must be completely different. Other nations must permit that flight path. Again, did you first look at maps? Your quote assumes great circle routes.

Yes, Israel might do as you have assumed if other nations are complicit. Add those fuel tanks and the plane cannot carry so many munitions. What is 600 gallons? 5000 more pounds? What is left to carry a bomb? Yes I read the entire paragraph and did these calculations. Did you?

It will take more than balls. Such an attack requires other nations to be complicit. You tell me that makes the region safer especially when it involves nuclear weapons? And then what happens in the Straits of Hormuz?

I am not saying it cannot be done. Obviously. However the consequences of such 'big dic' actions then should be massive civilian deaths – the only way to restore any sanity and to not provide Americans religious anti-American extremists with what they want – Armageddon. This is not some trivial attack on Saddam's nuclear reactor (which I always wondered was performed with French complicity). This is something far more severe that has nothing but bad consequences for American soldiers and for American citizens elsewhere in the world. Are you ready to die for Israeli 'big dics'?

Really the question we should be asking is why was this leaked? A mission so unlikely and then leaked? I am looking for a bigger agenda here. For example, is this really an American ploy to blame others for an American stealth attack? Does Turkey really so fear a nuclear Iran (since Turkey has already declared a nuclear Iran means they must go nuclear). I don't buy this Israeli attack at face value. The mission is just too unlikely. But such leaks can have alternative agendas. What are they? Were you asking this question with Cyclefrance's first post? I was - and other questions.

Airframe numbers, national boundaries, and political interests just don't make sense for the story as leaked. There must be much more here because success of that attack is just too improbable and risks excessive.

Could Israel pulled it off? Maybe if Israel was not so busy making enemies everywhere. Just another lesson for the Americans reading this.

Israel is kind of harsh on leakers they don't want to leak. They will hunt you down to every corner of the planet, kidnap you and cart you back to Israel to sit in prison. It probably doesn't even matter if your leak is true.

So, two probabilities. One is that it was intentionally leaked. The timing seems right for such a thing.

The other possibility is that the reporter(s) involved are making it up: It probably doesn't matter, flip a coin.

So you expect me to believe that if Israel was attacking Iran with nuclear weapons they would be concerned with air space protocol of their enemies? Grow up. Did your calculations include the 50 % larger internal tanks and 600 gallon wing tanks along with larger engines and more payload, that ALL F-16Is have ,ALL the time. This ain't your daddy's F-16.No it doesn't, they can do it all by their lonesome. The only question, if the story is true, is would they. :unsure:

The story is most likely true because Israel probably has a defense strategy against every country, even the US. The chances of Israel going through with the attack is slim for obvious reasons.

From your source: "We have the military option and the fact that we can fly to Gibraltar shows that we have the range. It’s in your interest to get back to the negotiation tables."

Reality shows that this strategy isn't working at all. The more sabre rattling the more defiant Iran is and the more support Ahmadinejad gets. Due to it's geographics Israel is very vulnerable for a first strike. Air strikes won't solve the problem at all, it will only emphasize it.

So if this story ain't true, then what is the US/Israel strategy? Maybe the fact that Negroponte was replaced by McConnell at the NIE could indicate things. As National Intelligence Director Negroponte countered the administration position that Iran was an immediate threat and that its alleged nuclear weapons program was in an advanced stage. McConnell is another Cheney-puppet who will go anywhere the Vice-President will tell him to go.

In order for Iran's program to move forward at George Jr's accelerated prediction, manufacture and installation of fine tolerance centrifuges had to be on the order of thousands - maybe tens of thousands. Based upon intelligence, Iran apparently only has enough manufacturing to maybe (worst case) make a prototype bomb. Iran may also have been using a process that is crude - not extremely productive as George Jr people assume.

Of course, the US has been building nuclear bombs to attack these bunkers. This was part of a program originally intended to "Pearl Harbor" Iran in 2006. But then things fell apart. Bases and cooperative governments necessary for the northern attack were lost. Iraqi's got patriotic and started attacking their common enemy - Americans. American military is now woefully short of equipment and abilities. Afghanistan was falling to the Taliban. And in America, people were finally acknowledging facts that were known to the administration in late 2003 - we were losing "Mission Accomplished".

Iran is only a threat if the US continues to empower Iranian extremists. Iran is much like Cuba. As long as the US rattles sabers, then the government only becomes more powerful. How does the US get spies in Iran? We stop all this militaristic nonsense; stop empowering people like Chavez of Venezuela with wacko 'them is evil' rhetoric. We let nationalism rise up and demand reforms. We let our friendly Arab neighbors tell us what is really happening. None of that could happen with George Jr's lying administration.

Unfortunately, Iran may become a nuclear power. Time to have averted that may have long past - required a president with intelligence. But continuing same mistakes will only guarantee a nuclear Iran. Even the George Jr administration has quietly conceded to a viable solution - and that means cooperation from Russia and China. Cooperation that only started after the US stopped its 'big dic' threats and the intention to 'Pearl Harbor' Iran imploded.

Israel has options. But that too means Israel must put its own house in order so as to be talking diplomatically rather than rattling sabers even against Palestinians. The Arab League does not want a nuclear Iran. But why say anything when Israel's actions imply a greater threat to all? ‘Big dic’ actions of Israel (encouraged and financially supported by American extremists Christians) only make it easier for Iran to have time and find material to make nuclear processing equipment.

Apparently Iran has far less centrifuges than George Jr's administration proclaimed. Again, subverting intelligence for a political agenda is a Cheney / Rumsfeld modus operandi. Denouncing and firing anyone who says otherwise was also standard procedure by those who somehow know using a political agenda.

Yes, the US is completely depending on Russia and China in the ME for a diplomatic solution, especially after Junior dismissed the Baker plan. The only other option is military which is totally counter productive. In the meantime the US lifted Iran into the leading ME position, alienated it's old allies and have the worst global popularity record in history. Even Nixon talked to the Chinese. In short Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld made a complete and utter mess of it's foreign diplomcy, a legacy which could stretch over decades...