Gruber is the liar. I am getting the feeling that many of you are comfortable with being lied to, especially if it for your own good because you are too stupid to understand the matter.

I'll be honest, I don't understand where the deception is in all this. Setting aside the exact numbers, many people here on the Cellar knew the above would happen. It's a logical, given result based on the changes that were being made. Young healthy people defray the costs for old sick people. That's the entire purpose of insurance. That's how it works. And work-based insurance should go away. It's a bad system that has contributed greatly to the problem. Why would anyone think that adding a new system (the free market policy exchange) wouldn't reduce the number of people on the old system? If they thought that, they weren't deceived, they were just dumb.

I haven't paid any attention to the Gruber guy because I remember it the same way as Clodfobble. I remember one clear lie though, but at the time I knew it was an obvious lie and I assumed others did too, because the truth had been told enough times that the lie was clearly a contradiction. Obama said on numerous occasions just before the passage that you wouldn't lose your old insurance if you have some, when what he meant to say was that you wouldn't lose your old insurance as long as it met the minimum requirements.

That was a lie, but anyone paying attention knew what he meant. He kept repeating it though.

There were multiple exemptions given to various groups, which I didn't like. And there were some other stupid political compromises rolled in to the bill that I can't remember off the top of me head. So there was some crap in Obamacare. But it was very clear what the overall thing was.

And the people and organizations opposing Obamacare were spreading so many lies. Nothing they said was true. I was willing to forgive Obama's lie about not losing your insurance if you have some. Remember the death panels scare? Holy shit. Such liars. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

My memory of the process tracks right alongside Clodfobble's and glatt's. Especially the part about Obama's "lie" about not losing one's insurance. It was an oversimplification, further simplified into something that he didn't say and something that wasn't right.

You know, back when the Obamacare bill was being debated and discussed and lied about, there was a point that I realized I really didn't have much of an idea what it was all about. When you get your information from politicians, filtered through the biased media of your choice, you really aren't going to have any idea what the real story is. Maybe that's what Gruber (who I still haven't paid any attention to) is calling a lie. Every politician and special interest group was spinning this thing. It's like the story of the blind guys describing an elephant while feeling the different parts and coming up with completely different things.

At the time, I finally went and read the summary of what Obamacare actually was, so I then had a good understanding of it. That's how I knew Obama's oversimplification was wrong.

Anybody who didn't bother to actually read what Obamacare was, and instead relied on politicians to spin it for them is going to get it wrong.

Sarge, I'd be interested to hear what lies Obama allegedly told (other than the "you get to keep your insurance" oversimplification.)

But glatt, why read that boring stuff when the internet is flooded with emails telling you it's bad.

Gruber was a credible numbers cruncher, so he was used to do the calculations, then hired to do be the face of the calculations, not the face of Obamacare. He was recorded on video, being hired help making off the cuff statements of opinion, he probably believed to be common knowledge.

He saw flaws in the system, we all did. They were introduced into the bill as a result of juggling several very powerful, well funded groups. Insurance companies, Drug companies, Hospital corporations, Medical Device makers and the AMA. It can still work better than what we had, with everyone getting on board to make it work, especially the state Governors.

But why settle for that, when what it really needs is for the politicians to tweak it. They have the power to fix the flaws if they stop playing politics, stop being obstructionists, stop lying, and do what's best for the people for a change.

But that probably won't happen because the American public is stupid, they'll keep believing the emails and reelecting their rapists.

To me the appalling thing is that political opponents no longer seem to attack opponents programs on the facts. Instead of making hay with the mandatory nature of Obamacare or Obamas lies about keeping your old program, they go with death panel bullshit or pretend medicare isn't a government program. We are at a point where nobody can admit their opponent has a value system they're making choices based upon.

Gruber's statements are unremarkable.

The attempt by the Right to capitalize on his remarks is unremarkable.

The attempt by the Left to minimize his remarks is unremarkable.

This is a non-story.

Because they can, it works because Americans are stupid. Guess Gruber was right. ;)