Re: Re: Gun does not equal cowboy
 

-george's impression of dirty Harry and Gallagher's love child

ok, here goes:

I love the name onyxcougar, and you are very informed and witty. Plus, I am deeply attracted to english women...It's the accent...it makes me feel so unworthy and naughty with my crude american mannerisms. I bet you are as beautiful as your prose. And kind. I also love the way you have perfect punctuation and grammar. You also seem to be able to take a joke very well. I have a very good english friend, and he has a very distinct sense of humour(note the english spelling). I'll admit that I missed it, and didn't know you were english, but then, the accent doesn't translate very obviously into text. What I'm trying to say, cougar, is that i really really really want to impress you and to make you think I'm smarter than I actually am. You see, I have a very fragile ego, and need constant reassurance from people I look up to. I see you as one of the quicker people in the cellar, and if nothingelse, I would just like to let everyone know that your grace and intelligence is unmatched among the mere mortals that surround you.

I actually mean some of that cougar, and before you say it, just let me say that I know I'm a cock!

~~~~chills~~~~~


I like you more every minute, cougar.


and, by the way, i said C O C K , not crock....I'm very legitimate and accurate in what i say, and will not tolerate being called a crock....I mean, insults are one thing, but when you question my integrity, that's when I draw the line....Harumph!

Uh, Jim. She just moved from Vegas to North Carolina and I'm pretty sure she's a citizen. ;)

oh ho... Reeeee heeeeee heellleeeeee? come clean, onyx....what side of the road do you drive on? s or z? come on.... aluminum or al-you-minnium? .....chips or fries? go to the john or the lu? which is it?

Six shot, Ruger Old Army.

Ran short on bearfat, so I've been using WonderWads. You don't get yer fingers gooey that way.

Tried the Pyrodex pellets, but actually like the poured powder better.

Re: Gun does not equal cowboy
 

Our question is generally "what's the thing you guys across the pond have against guns"

Britain and Australia are generally held up as example of what happens when countries enact restrictive gun control measures, confiscating personal property and leaving an unarmed populace helpless against the predations of criminals.

Crime IS on the rise in both nations. Rapid rise.

Do you know what happens in the US if a state that has not previously had a concealed carry law enacts one? Crime goes DOWN. Once law-abiding and responsible people are possibly carrying guns, criminals have a harder time of things. Before Florida enacted shall issue concealed carry (that means that just so long as you aren't disqualified for having a gun permit you shall be issued one if you apply) the crime rates (possibly the ones involving handguns) was 36% above the national average. After? 4% BELOW the national average.

This has been borne out in other states as well.

Where are the highest rates of crime and gun violence? The places that don't allow their citzens to carry guns or to have weapons in their homes ... Washington, DC, New York City, Chicago, Illinois.

Now that the comapny is owned by Americans ....again, we see the company doing better. I personally like S&Ws although the only model I own is a 640 (pocketgun, 357, no external hammer, less than 1 inch barrel, magnaported).

The problem they are now facing is the bad service and quality of their handguns.

Once they get their act together I would like to purchase one of their "mountain gun" revolvers, as seen in the movie Broken Arrow. The lady ranger carried it. It's a 44 mag in a manageable frame.

They have that new .50 cal hand<strike>gun</strike>cannon too ...

(edited to try to get the stupid strikeout tags to work)

I'm an American for gun control.

"Studies" that claim to prove that increased gun ownership, conceal and carry laws cause a reduction in crime are flawed big time. Correlation does not prove causation. If there is a reduction in the yearly crime rate in Sarasota, FL the year after conceal and carry legistation is enacted, does that prove that the reduction is indeed caused by the presence of legal guns as deterants or is there a chance that other factors contributed to this decline? changing demographics, shifting laws, drug treatment programs, weather? Come on.
Does the poverty ridden inner city of Chicago have a higher incidence of crime than Sarasota Florida? yes.Would the crime, death and injury rate in Chicago's southside decrease when everyone is allowed to be armed? Well obviously not, because essentially everyone is armed allowed or otherwise. So the next step is to have everyone armed more. Radar's nukes perhaps. The cops need more firepower. I'm not convinced that gun proliferation serves as a crime deterent. I think true crime prevention addresses the motivating contexts of criminal behavior- economics, education, health, community.

Warch, I agree with you in that not every study is perfect, and that correlation does not prove causation. After all, we have CCW here, and crime is apparently up in the City of Philadelphia (I'd have to look at harder numbers...stats are being flung around left and right right now due to the mayoral race).

But I think you're taking it to a bit of the extreme here...and I'm saying this as someone that was once for gun control (and voted against CCW in MO 4 years ago).

In such a short time span (one year), with other items being constant...unless people have suddenly gotten moral transplants, I'd say that you'd have to point to CCW.

Not everyone is allowed to be armed due to prior run-ins with the law, mental issues, etc.

And criminals don't care about gun laws--that's why they're criminals. Chicago has had a handgun ban for years now...it doesn't look like it's helped much.

But if the state of IL were to allow CCW and the City of Chicago dropped its ban on handguns, I bet one would feel more confident walking down S. Halsted with a concealed weapon...and a criminal might think twice about committing a crime. Although, criminals can be incredibly stupid. But I do think you'll see a fair drop in crime rather quickly...not massive or overwhelming, but enough to notice a difference.

But only takes one well-placed bullet. You could be armed to the hilt, but one bullet in your skull will kill your ass just fine.

I dunno...cops with more firepower COULD be helpful. But then you run the risk of moving closer to a police-like state.

And I do agree that we need to focus on the "fundamentals." Hell, that could solve a lot of problems. But until we do, people deserve to have a fair chance against a criminal, right? Police aren't going to help you after you're dead, other than tagging you and calling your relatives. Wouldn't you like the opportunity to protect yourself at the very moment a crime is going down?

If I'm not mistaken, CCW is now the law in MN...is everyone freaking out over it? Is everyone arming to the teeth? Or is life going on as normal?

I suggest that other items- were not constant, and were not considered in the analysis. Maybe increasing the number of gated retirement communities lowered crime. Or maybe it was the extra funding the Catholic missions received. Or maybe there were less days over 98 deg. But as proof of causation, its not clear, its correlation that proves nothing. You can measure a lower rate of criminal incidents,(assuming the definition of criminal incidents remains consistent), but targeting the probable cause of the change take more control. Here is some interesting info on John Lott whose study is most often sited http://www.citypages.com/databank/24...ticle11064.asp

The handgun ban instituted to lower a crime problem, (just as the above argument) does not address the motivation or prevention of crime. This ban is a desperate attempt to lower the number of available weapons, to not add to the problem. But as you know its easy to get a gun if you want one or feel you need one, criminal or not. If Chicago dropped their gun ban, I dont think you'd see much difference with out other efforts to reduce crime.Its way way more complex.

Lets re-arm all Iraqies and see if crime is reduced. Lets allow good kids who have passed a gun ed course to carry to school and see if that reduces school shootings.

I'm saying that many cops are outarmed right now. From armour piercing bullets, automatic weapons, other weapon innovations.. the ante keeps going up. What is ok to ban? should we allow assault weapons for those deemed legal?

Early intervention in health and education has been proven to lower criminal activity. But that requires a longterm investment and interest in the public safety of a community as well as the individual. Such initiatives are starting to be looked at for their economic impact as well. Head Start, Success by Six.

Well I saw a man get shot in a gang drive-by well before the new law. Would an armed civic response, or the threat of one, have prevented the shooting? Nah. If crossfire had broken out would more of us at the bus stop been at higher risk of injury? Yeah.

So far, the main impact I can see of the conceal and carry laws in MN is a boom in sales of signs that state "(name of establishment) bans guns in these premises" (They cant say "on" unless you own the property.) Gun ban signs are posted everywhere- small businesses, churches, restaurants, bars, theaters, schools including this University, Xcel energy center hockey games, the state fair grounds, city hall, the state capital, . You can pack it in the parking lot. Also sited at most community gatherings "Minnesotans against getting shot" petitions to have the law repealed.

Gun deaths continue - the Cold Spring school shooting . The shooter was talked down by an unarmed teacher. Got his gun from home where it was a legal purchase- Dad's in law enforcement. This is now a familiar scenario. Troubled kids with access to this tool will use it.

And a few weeks back a woman was killed and her lawyer shot through the neck at a court hearing, the hand gun was legally purchased by the shooter, a cousin of the victim. The shooter lured the two to a court house she knew didnt install metal detectors. The gun ban sign didnt deter her actions.;) Again crossfire in lobby wouldnt have done much preventively.

People who suffer moments of unstablity, or consider suicide, or are immature, stupid and curious, or are murderous, when there are guns available, will use this effective tool on themselves and others. My concern is that a concealed handgun law will not make communities safer, but rather make more handguns more available to all imperfect audiences.

whew, sorry so long. Whats gotten into me?

Oh and by the way, Happy belated Birthday T. You old!