The gun laws debate has been done to death, and emprical research in other cultures shows up the wrongness of the mercs and freshones idealogy. The real issue is the lack of value that the american culture places on the life of the individual.

Great, debate it.

You are right about one thing, I care more about my individual rights as provided by the Consitution and the Bill of Rights than anyone elses.:p

mmmmmm........ Guess just how much I care for your so-called bill of rights, yank.

Ooops sorry, I don't give a fuck what you think.
:thumb:

That is why you live where you do.:D

Q.E.D.

Well thanks for sharing, I got up early this morning worrying what you might think about the US....


NOT! :beer:

:footpyth:
:f205:

That is full of bias and bullshit. I strongly disagree. It's getting to the point where I'm almost offended as an American. Where do you hail from that is so much better than the USA?

Wait so you are placing everyone American in the same boat as me and Merc? I don't even think we agree about the same gun laws specifically. And the second part you just said....What the fuck? I just don't understand what that is supposed to mean.

Listen to me, I'm 19 and go to the University of Illinois. I'm from the suburbs of Chicago, I feel I'm a responsible kid. But I plan to own a gun or two when I have my own apartment in the metropolis that I move to. So that makes me a horrible person, for wanting to have the protection for people out there looking to hurt me or my family? And you're telling me I'm a bad person for not caring if I kill the person I shoot at in self defense, because I cared more for the members of my family who were at risk?

But you realize that US violent crime rates have been falling for your whole life, right?

When I hear stuff like this at a party . . .

I leave.

:(

There is nothing biased about it at all. It's just reality. I'm from hong kong and when I moved to america I could see right away how bad the crime is. All one has to do is sit and watch the local and national news.

So? It still doesn't change the fact that crime is rampant in america.

You obviously don't know how American news works. These stories make networks. It's not like China where the government HIDES all their scandals and dirty laundered money. Not to mention communist gov't and how they "intervene" with people who don't believe in what they want. You want to talk about violence? How many police beatings happen A DAY in China, to civilians? I have mannnnnny Chinese friends. I know what happens there. They visit China so I get the stories. Maybe in your utopia of Hong Kong there is no violence (shyeah right, Triads anyone?) but here in America there is freedom of PRESS where stories are heard, especially the BAD ones that make networks get coverage. Please keep your American bashing to yourself before you know the whole deal with this country.

By the way, before you pull the race card, I'm Asian too, like yourself. Filipino to be exact. But I know your opinions are full of holes and I have a lot of respect for my country, it's outrageous that you can come to this forum and just blantantly say America is a dangerous crime ridden country.

I agree Jay, just because our "standards" are higher does not make any loss of life an more or less important. We are all human beings and all our lives are worth the same and it is pathetic to think otherwise.

You would be suprised on how much the US hides.

I can't speak for mainland china because I have never lived there, I can only compare hong kong to america. In fact you can compare any major american city to hong kong sar and you will see the violence in the american city much more higher. And of course there is violence in hong kong, there is no such place on earth where people live that there is no violence. But the crime in hong kong, especially violent crime, is extremely low compared to america and hong kong is one of the freest places in the world to live. So tell me what is hong kong doing right and america doing wrong?

What does race have to do with the discussion?

Show me the stats, I refuse to degrade American cities based on a 16 year olds opinion. Are you one of those rich fobs who has never seen violence and wear aeropostle and american eagle because it looks really American? I know because I know what fobs at my university are like. I don't think you know a thing about American cities. I'm from Chicago and have been to NYC, Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, Orlando, Miami and Atlanta. Please don't try to act like you know all about "major american cities." And you didn't even address what I said about American press. Since you didn't say anything I'll assume Hong Kong people are all out of the know. Well it's different here.

A significant amount less than China.
Who are we kidding. My friend went there on a missionary trip and heard the nighlty police beatings of civilians in the village. Nightly! I don't think that was in the newspaper the next morning.

It doesn't, I just didn't want you pulling out that card.

Ok I'm not sure what any of this means but here are your statistics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_murder_rate

What about the american press? Hong kong has free press too. If there is a murder it will be reported just like in america so I don't see your point.
If you think I'm just america bashing then take the crime rate of your favorite american city and compare it to hong kong and see what you find. See what the comparison in murder, rape, armed robbery, kidnapping is. Maybe you should pay attention to what goes on in your country instead of letting pride color your opinion.

"Hong Kong SAR has a low crime rate. Travelers should exercise caution when in congested areas and pay particular attention to personal belongings while in crowded markets and while traveling on public transportation. Violent crime, though rare, does occur."
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1136.html

That is from your own state department regarding hong kong. Can you honestly say violent crime is rare in any major american city?

I think that's one of the reasons why we're not your colonies anymore, Limey*.




* Used in the pejorative sense meaning a person of British descent, rather than the proper name of a Dwellar, limey, whose name is spelled with a lower-case l, anyway.

Then why are you telling me this. I'm throwing it out the window if you can't explain it.


Um, did you read the terrorist report as well? Listen, Hong Kong may resemble Singapore or Tokyo but I still will not degrade American cities. You can't just come and say we are the most violent country in the world. And plus your wikipedia bullshit you can't even comprehend. Therefore I'm done arguing with someone who doesn't know stuff about American cities, which is what I am talking about, not Hong Kong. You have not spent enough time in America to know what it's about. Save your judgements before you call us criminals. Violence happens everywhere and I refuse to believe it is this rampant bullshit that you say. I KNOW American cities, you do not. Do not judge something before you experience it.

Fresh, she is right, America is easily the most violent first world country in the world. We have the highest murder rates and the highest number amount of people in prisions.

Here is stats for murder rates:
http://www.newsbatch.com/gc-intgunsa.html

I'm not going to look for one with prision rates but I know for a fact that we are highest.

Ok try paying attention. The part where I said i didn't know what any of this means was in reference to your statement I highlighted in bold which was this.
Also I not once said america was the most violent nation in the world.

If we'd actually punish our criminals rather than trying to redeem them, we might get somewhere on lowering the crime rate.

I don't know what you're arguing about anyway. Australia still holds the record for the most people killed by gunshot in one sitting by a crazy gunman, and we're not even a violent country.

Things like this wont be stopped by different gun laws although we've had no more here since the government took away all semi auto weapons. Mind you, we hadn't had anything of that magnitude before either.

I assume you're talking about Port Arthur? I have met some of the responders to that incident.

Yes true. America should make a concerted effort to get rid of judges like edward cashman who does not believe in punishing criminals.

Your original post, all I see in America is violence, it's rampant. That's where I disagree. You make it seem like all US news is about criminal acts and violence and that's what you think of the country as. The violence makes the news of course, but it doesn't mean we are all about violence. It is not rampant, we do not have massacres everyday, every month, every year. American cities are not about killing and violence. I will never believe violence is "rampant" in American cities.

rampant -
1. violent in action or spirit; raging; furious: a rampant leopard.
2. growing luxuriantly, as weeds.
3. in full sway; prevailing or unchecked: a rampant rumor.

It is not growing, it is not unchecked. Just because we have violence does not mean the USA does nothing about it. So for you to call it "rampant" is false. I'm from Chicago and when I think of the Windy City crime is not the first thing that comes to mind, not at all. It (and many and most American cities) has a lot more positive than negative aspects to it. Sure go ahead and tell me about Al Capone and the mob, but then I'll tell you that was 90 years ago. I could go and be ignorant and claim the movie Rush Hour perceives Hong Kong as strictly a drug trafficking, gang infested murder port but that would be wrong as well. It is not rampant, end of story. Rwanda has rampant violence. The USA does not.

Not once did I form my opinion based on a movie and I don't care about mob violence, I'm talking about daily violence. Compared to where I'm from crime in america is rampant. You have armed gangs roaming the streets so how can you say it isn't out of control?

Armed gangs? And the Triads are just shady business men? Your bullshit I can't stand anymore. I don't give a fuck where you're from the crime in America is not fucking rampant. I ask you to tell some casual city dwelling American who knows a shitload more than you about city life "is violence rampant in your city?" and he will tell you no. Why the fuck would he be LIVING in that city if there was rampant violence. If you think America has rampant violence then you DON'T want to go to mainland China (where you say you have no idea what it's like there) where police beat the shit out of civilians for looking at them the wrong way. Now that is an armed gang roaming the streets. Tell all the other dwellars here that America has rampant violence. The American ones will probably get a little offended if you just are going to label us all a bunch of thieves, thugs and murderers.

Oh give me a break. The triads do not roam the streets shooting people in the head for their purse or their car. The triads are a shadow of what they were before china took over. In america on the other hand, not a day goes by in an american city without gang violence. And you want to talk about police abuse? Are you saying that doesn't happen in america?? Also why are you telling me I know nothing about america when I live here yet you make claims about china and you have never lived there. Further more I didn't label all of you as criminals, I said your crime is rampant and I stand by that.
America is not a third world thug dictatorship so there is no excuse to have crime on the scale that you do.

I can't wait til morning comes and the other American dwellars reply to your "rampant" bashing of America.

So, you're telling me everyday people get shot in the head for their purse in America. That is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard. Police abuse. I am 100000% sure American police injustice is 100000x LESS than communist China's police injustice. And I have heard many stories from my Chinese friends who visit there in the summer. Goddamnit where is the morning. I really didn't think immigrants would move here if they thought our crime was so fucking "rampant." Isn't that why they moved to America? To escape poverty, oppression, VIOLENCE and to have an opportunity? Why come to America, you might have a 100% chance of getting shot in the head for your purse.

Oh course, americans are prideful and so I'm sure to receive all kinds of personal insults for my opinions. We all know that expressing any opinion that is negative of america is of course america bashing.
Since I'm doomed to be insulted by your fellow americans in the morning, I would like to add not only is your crime out of control but you have a pop culture that glorifies.

So car jacking and armed robbery in america is rare? That is new. And as for the police abuse you are comparing to mainland china. You might be right that it is worse in mainland china. I wouldn't know because I have never lived there but neither have you.
Why do immigrants move to america? certainly not because of crimes in their own country but because they think they can make more money in america.

No shit we have a pop culture that glorifies, but you didn't say what. Oh right, mass murder, like this KOREAN immigrant who slaughtered 32 people in AMERICA. Obviously our crime is out of control, damn. Let's just make another glorifying pop video about how we love crime. That's what we do. That's America. You came here, don't blame me.

Listen getting shot in the head means you're gonna DIE. That's what you said. Contradict yourself some more. And no, my European friends moved here because eastern Europe has some bad ass violence. Now don't even get me started on my African friends. You must not know anything about Eastern or Central Africa if you think certainly not because crime in their country. But I guess Hong Kong is violence free.

Oh my mistake, your pop culture glorifies violence. That much is obvious.
Interesting how you point out the mass killer was an immigrant. He lived there since he was 8 years old. :rolleyes:

Um point out where I contradicted myself. And I like how you seem to have friends from everywhere and use that to qualify knowing what you are talking about. I suppose if I said the moon was made of cheddar cheese you would have a friend that has been there and claims it was made of swiss.

Shit, I'm an immigrant I came here when I was two. In fact my family tells me of their extended family in Mindanao who fled the Philippines because of the violence caused by the Moros in MY country. Damn, I'm even going to get personal to prove you wrong.

Clearly you don't know the University of Illinois lowered it's in state tuition admission and significantly raised it's international admission. That is all about the money. So I have more intnat'l friends, DUH. And I like how your post I quoted above has absolutely no substance. It's a great tactic. I was almost thrown off.

We're not really that violent, it's just oversensationalized in the media because that's what sells. It's never about the actual news anymore, it's about getting the all day coverage on something that makes everyone go "OH MY GOD/S!". News Companies, at the top levels, don't really care what is on the news, as long as it'll stop every dumbass between Maine and Hawaii so they can watch how 30-some odd people got shot today, or how some celebrity did this or that, all to make a quick buck. I suppose it's a bit cold of me to say that I really don't care about what happened in VA the other day, but I actually don't. I care most about what happens where *I* live.

It's all a big ratings contest, and that's why you see so much drugs, sex, violence, and Oprah on TV these days. All I see on the news are stories about the "war", or some sad sack story that's supposed to make you cry. They can wrap up their story on the 6:00 News, and be done with it, and that's what they should be doing, not bulletizing every little detail for an event that is happening halfway (For me, in Iowa, it's about half) across the country, because I really don't care. It doesn't change my life significantly that some guy came to a uni and shot 30 people.

So, don't go saying the USA is incredibly violent, just because that's what you see on TV. To hell with Big News corporations. There's a reason I read the small paper instead of the big one.

SEE I BEEN TRYIN TO TELL THIS GIRL BUT SHE DON'T LISTEN GAHHHHHHHHHH US NEWS IS ALL ABOUT DAT!

Gee any chance of me interviewing your long list of international friends?
As far as posts with no substance, take a look at how you have reduced this discussion into an insult exchange. I have noticed this to be common among a few in here who claim to know what they are talking about.

I'm going to stop listening also if that caps lock key doesn't get turned off.

So if I look up police statistics on crime then I can assume that is just sensationalism too?

Ikechukwu Valentino Ujari, Slobodan Radonovic, Yirang Wang. But I must be good at googling such ethnic names so quickly. Read Sadists post, she said stuff that I couldn't put my finger on but meant.

I wasn't trying to debunk actual police statistics, but I know a lot of what outsiders think of a place is by what they hear of it in the news and from other people. I'm jsut sick of the media making the US as a whole look bad.

Ok can I interview them please? Since you like to say I'm full of bullshit then I will say the same of you until I get to have a discussion with your many international friends.

Oh, and just for the record, I have a penis.

Before I moved to america I had a completely different view. It wasn't until I lived here that I figured out just how bad the crime was.

Would you like my facebook for U of I? They are my facebook friends! And in exchange, can you get me the # of a peaceful distraught Triad who is bummed about his unthorough existence in Hong Kong?

I'm from a medium-ish size city in the midwest, so crime isn't that big of an issue where I'm at. I've also been in the military, and when you ask your fellow soldiers where they are from, you get kind of a window into a lot of the country. Things I've heard about some of the places my friends are from makes me not want to go there, ever.

Sure give me their emails and while you are at give me those violent crime stats of hong kong compared to your favorite american city that shows I'm full of bullshit and just "american bashing". :D

Me too.

I'm not arguing Hong Kong. I'm just pretty offended you called America a "rampant" crime ridden country. You'd be offended if I called Hong Kong successful only because of the British. But I guess I can argue that as long as you can argue "rampant" violence in the states.

Actually I would not be offended if you said HK was successful because of the british. Like it or not I believe hong kong would not be what it is today without the british.

I say american crime is rampant because it is compared to where I'm from. I'm not saying that to be insulting or to bash, I'm saying that because crime in any one of your cities is high in comparison. I believe it is a legitimate argument. And no I do not claim you are all thugs or criminals. And I do not claim america is the most violent nation in the world.