No, she attacked your opinion.

I wouldn't give you the satisfaction nor the opportunity to post your HATE without a rebuttle.

Compensation, she attacked me and my opinion.

They were examples of things that are morally equivalent to animal cruelty? Yeah, I'm the dolt here. Jackass.

Byrd on Michael Vick: Going to Hell
In a floor speech Thursday, Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Va.) lashed out, indirectly, at Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who was recently charged with running a dog-fighting ring in Virginia
"It is a brutal, sadistic event motivated by barbarism of the worst sort and cruelty of the worst, worst, worst, sadistic kind," Byrd said in a 24-minute address on the matter. "One is left wondering: Who are the real animals? Who are the real animals, who are the real animals -- the creatures inside the ring or the creatures outside the ring?"

By the way - anyone know what happened to this????

Woman claims star NFL quarterback passed along herpes in 2003
APRIL 5--Claiming that Michael Vick gave her herpes, a Georgia woman is suing the star NFL quarterback for negligence and battery. According to the below lawsuit, Sonya Elliot, a 26-year-old health care worker, was infected with the sexually transmitted disease in April 2003 after an unprotected encounter with Vick at the athlete's Duluth, Georgia home. Elliott alleges that after testing positive for Herpes Simplex 2, she confronted the Atlanta Falcons star, 24, about her condition. "I've got something to tell you. I've got it," Vick admitted to her, according to Elliott's State Court complaint, which alleges that Vick then told her that "he had not known how to tell her about his condition, and that it was not something that he liked to talk about." Elliott's complaint also contends that Vick "apologized profusely" for not telling her he was infected with the STD. Elliot's lawsuit alleges that Vick has used the name "Ron Mexico" and, in a related court filing, her lawyers are seeking Vick's admission that he used the "Mexico" alias--and perhaps other fake names--"for the purpose of herpes testing and/or treatment."

Oh my...Robert Byrd and I agree on something? Quick, sometime call the time and temperature number in Hell.

Could this whole "argument" be settled with a "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" I know they are "just dogs", but . . . ? ? ?

Someone said it was a cultural thing. By that asinine statement and according to rumors, history. It was a cultural thing to lynch blacks in the south. By that line of thinking, do I need to buy rope? Hell! It's a cultural thing. Race card time again.

Having herpes is a non-issue.
The color of his skin is also, unless you are a racist.

Right, Disney employees work with kids, football players do not work with dogs. Even if he is shown to be guilty, and he has not been, he does not work with dogs.
If he gets fired it would be well within his right to sue.
I have issues with employers fucking with people over what they do with their private lives.
His job is to win football games, that is all.

Maintaining the image of the NFL is in his contract, and therefore part of his job. Anyone can sue for anything, but he would lose.

Then he still should be fired -

I see the point you're trying to make, but I think you're missing one as well: this has more to do with image and reputation as it relates to the employer, not whether or not Vick works with dogs.

The NFL has made a huge campaign about the image of its players, and thus the respectability of the NFL and the game. If the NFL's idea of maintaining an image requires players to be not felons, stoners, abusers, whatever, and the NFL believes - and can prove - that the image of the league, teams, and/or players would suffer or even be tarnished by the actions of a singular individual within the sport, they may very well be within their right to fire him for a conviction, or even on suspicion of these charges.

Image and reputation are the hardest things to attain and maintain, and even harder to get back once tarnished.

excellent points smurf - not sure about the legality of it all, but I agree in theory. Too bad it will all come down to whether they will lose more money by keepng or firing him. They will most likely play the middle ground and offer up some type of suspension.

It's basic contract law, not necessarily my opinion. (For the record, I believe he's guilty, and I believe he's a sick fuck, and I'd love to have a chance to cattle-prod his balls.)

Vick signed a contract. If the contract stipulates he must refrain certain activities, and maybe (definitely) includes a catch-all phrase that would cover all the bases in the event the 'certain activities' are not set out specifically (i.e. must test negative for steroids, weed, opiates, etc.) that leaves it up to the interpretation of a jury should he attempt to sue in the event he is fired as to whether or not his extracurricular activities did, in fact, have negative repercussions on his employer.

And, also, I don't how much employment law would really apply here as far as his "rights" with his "employer" - he's under a contract and the contract, as long as it isn't deemed illegal or that any party signed under duress, would supersede over employment law.

Fresh, while I have not responded personally to anything you have said in the past and don't know if I will respond to anything in the future, depends on what topic is being discussed - I like Football, I grew up in a household where it was watched regularly. However, the way I am interpreting your statement you are suggesting that “race is an issue”, what about this little article from “CLASSIC ESPN”; now this guy didn’t do dog fighting; he did “women” fighting. He’s white, or would you presume to tell me that “culturally” white guys, not black mostly beat women. While this is a somewhat different circumstance, it still doesn’t make it right.

Gastineau, King of Sack
By Mike Puma
Special to ESPN.com

Except;
Mark Gastineau turned self-promotion into an art form with his dance ritual that accompanied quarterback sacks in the early 1980s. His antics played a large part in the NFL making such celebrations illegal in March 1984.
But that didn't stop the New York Jets defensive end, who helped revolutionize the position with his blazing speed. In 1984, Gastineau recorded 22 sacks, an NFL record that stood for 17 years until Michael Strahan broke it in 2001.
The 6-foot-5, 275-pound Gastineau made the Pro Bowl five straight seasons (1981-85) and finished his 10-year career with 107½ sacks, a Jets record that won't be broken anytime soon. He was the most high-profile member of the "New York Sack Exchange," a title given to the Jets' fearsome defensive front that was composed of Gastineau, Joe Klecko, Marty Lyons and Abdul Salaam. The foursome combined for 54½ sacks in 1981.
Off the field, Gastineau was no saint. He used anabolic steroids while playing for the Jets and was convicted for drug possession in 1993. He has a history of domestic violence against women. He served 11 months on Rikers Island for violating probation after assaulting a girlfriend who became his second wife.
In 1988, while still married to his first wife Lisa, Gastineau announced his engagement to actress Brigitte Nielsen, with whom he later fathered a son. But the couple split amongst hushed talk that Gastineau physically abused her. Gastineau later attributed his problems with women to his abuse of steroids.

The thing is, almost every sport has problems. It's getting worse. There doesn't seem to be anyway to "make it better". Decisions are needing to be made. What to do with players who "choose" to make wrong decisions.

Just wanted to add one more note - while he didn't get "dismissed" from the team - I do believe that what was done and the things that have happened since - are showing the commissioners that they need to get "some type" of control over their players. It does make the sport look bad - they are representatives of their teams. An animal can't choose to not "get in the ring". I know let's put him in with the dog and we'll see who wins.

The thing is...everyone keeps saying for him to fight the dog....That's even worse and part hypocritical. Worrying about "inhumane" acts but then you go and do one over and put and jeopardize a human being? So it's not ok for dogs to duke it out, but for a dog to attempt to tear apart another human being, that is reconciled?
Look I don't want to get into this again but I put human interests far ahead of animal interests and I would hate to see a fellow human being injured because of a dog. That would make me want to put that dog down. Just my opinion, you know, humanity over the animal kingdom. Sorry.

If it's so important to you that people get your message, don't post a video. I'm sure that I'm not the only person here who is at work and can't exactly play a video, especially one that apparently includes offensive language.

I'm not sure exactly where you get the idea that views on animals are so clear-cut between races. I live in a majority-black city and have met plenty of black people who love their pets, and plenty of white people who laugh at cruelty to animals. Here in DC we even have plenty of black vegans and vegetarians. For instance, the African-American lady who lives across the hall from me has a cat whom she'd clearly do anything for.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people (of all races) who will stand up for Vick because they like to see African-Americans succeeding publicly and don't want to see another black celebrity disgraced. A lot of people of all races felt the same way about OJ Simpson. That doesn't mean that murder isn't seen as a bad thing in the black community, just that people don't want to believe that someone who was thought of as a role model for black children could be a murderer.

And for the record, I am a big football fan and I do watch SportsCenter, and I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Vick is the best player in the league. That explains why Atlanta did so well in the playoffs, right? :rolleyes:

Has everybody gotten their Ron Mexico name?

I'm Phoebe Australia.

Ah thanks wolf, I'm Jojo Georgia.

That is overly cute!

One of my male coworkers is "Stark Iran."

He won't answer to anything else now.

They're not all on the other side of the door.

Tiffany Sweden!!

Victoria Suriname

Back to Vick

LOL!!! So, you suggest that the NFL fire all felons and those found using drugs, illegal substances (so funny!), and prostitutes in any way?
The "image" of the NFL is a group of companies that sponsor and play a sport, reading more into it is just confusing and I have, nowhere, seen any evidence, to support any other fact.
Please show me where it is more than just that.
"Football player"... pretty sure that is their title, right?

As for his contract... has he been found guilty of fighting the dogs?

:confused: Ummm, no, I didn't suggest that at all. I don't think I gave my opinion on what football players should be suspended for at all. Maybe it's that silly disappearing/reappearing font. :rolleyes: :lol:


I was speaking of the legality of a contract, not the type of employment ("football player") involved in this case. A contract can set forth any stipulation the employer wants, as long as it's legal. As a potential employee, you have the right to sign the contract - or not, and thus be bound to the contract - or not. Legally speaking, if you agree to the terms of the contract and sign it, you are bound by the contract terms. It is a fact that Vick is under contract with the NFL. It is a fact that the contract stipulates certain behaviors will result in suspension, fines, and/or expulsion from the league. It is a fact that the NFL is legally allowed to exercise - and in fact is choosing to exercise - its rights under the contract that Vick signed.

It seems to me that you disagree that the NFL should be allowed to stipulate such things in its contracts. If that is the case, then I might agree with you to some extent. But still - the fact remains, Vick agreed to the terms of his contract.


No. I don't believe any literate individual with an IQ above 65 and access to newsmedia believes Vick has been convicted yet since he was just indicted.

Regardless of whether or not you think image is an issue, or I think it's an issue, or anyone else thinks it's an issue, the NFL has made it pretty clear that it is an issue with the league - or else they wouldn't have suspended him for being charged (not convicted) of these crimes.

Just find the biggest, meanest dog in the country and have Vick fight it.... winner take all.

I seriously doubt that being black has anything to do with it. There are dogfighting rings in the UK and, as far as I know, it tends to be white, working class men who are involved. My guess is, the unifying 'culture' is socio-economic in nature, rather than race. In areas of high deprivation, crime and violence, fierce dogs are desirable. In a climate of economic and social uncertainty, where violence and fear are a common part of life, some people become emotionally calloused.

Fresh, you mentioned cock-fighting in your country of origin: I don't believe this is the same. What you are describing is a sport which has been in continuous existence for hundreds, even thousands, of years. I personally think it is an appalling sport, but I can see the 'cultural difference' argument too. WHat we've been discussing in this thread, however, is not a continuation of something. Dog-fighting is something that has been around for long time, but has been considered culturally unacceptable in the West for many years.

I liked your post. But prostitution, gambling, adultery, indecent exposure are all culturally unacceptable in the West for many years too, right?

Your point being?

All of those "activities" involve humans only (except in Bruces case,j/k) Dog fighting is comlpletely different having no comparison to them.

Do you eat meat, wear leather?

I think people who make assumptions without facts are idiots and should be ignored and/or treated as such, no matter how many of them their are.
I will bet you a golden football if he is acquitted he will get his old job back and that is as it should be.

Thats a long stretch -
I eat meat & no I don't wear leather. I don't eat veal though. Does that count for anything?

I think my IQ dropped a point or four for just having read your post, rkzenrage.

People who ignore the facts are even bigger idiots.

How about posting a real argument rather than this nanny-nanny-boo-boo-you-don't-know-the-facts bullshit with nothing to support yours.

Please tell me smurf, what are the facts? The proven, known, facts in the Vic case, to date?

Also, I am not a believer that all aspects of one's life affects all other aspects of their life. Some things are none of your damn business.

Ever been to a slaughterhouse? I have.
Don't talk to me about "torture". It is cultural.
I don't like animal fights, but I KNOW I'm a hypocrite, do you?

Well, since literacy doesn't appear to be your strong suit, maybe you should go look for your baseball.

Exactly the kind of answer I was expecting.
Emotional and lacking any value what-so-ever, again.
Thanks for proving my point, again.

Right... *I'm* the one who can't follow a thread... *I'm* the one putting words in other people's mouths... *I'm* the one with nothing more intelligent to say other than "fuck you", "you're a cunt", "idiot", or brag about how educated I am.

You're aggressive and bitter and miserable, I assume this from my personal experience with your shitty attitude and lack of ability to contribute intelligently to a conversation without personally attacking people because you apparently have nothing better going on up there. Good for you. :headshake

I never wrote "fuck you", "you're a cunt" or bragged about how educated I am once.
I have used the word idiot in it's many wondrous forms.
I don't contribute to the forum?
Let's do a search on the threads you have started and mine and compare shall we? LOL!
You are still avoiding the topic & still emotionally lashing out... sad... but fun, keep it up.

I never said you did. I'm just classifying you with the rest of the people with nothing more intelligent to say other than "fuck you", etc. so I can discriminate against you for it.

Wow your momma must be so proud of you. She taught you well, I see.

Nope, not to this one. At least, not intelligently. Shit, even freshness has you beat with an effort.

Since I'm new around these parts, I wouldn't have started numerous threads, now would I?

Why are you hung up on this emotion thing? I'm certainly not emotional about you, but if you want to ahead and think I am, you go right ahead. I'm flattered.

Ok, you're not emotional... these posts have been...um... what?
Edit:
No, wait, I got it... SATIRE! LOL!!!!

Yes I went to one once - does that have any bearing on the situation with dogfighting? Not to me. A slaughterhouse is designed to provide food. Dogfighting...??? As I said a long stretch - :headshake

why hasnt anyone just assassinated the prick yet. i would volunteer but i am alas, too far away.

"release the hounds" i say

I so wish I had sound at work - it still looks funny though.

Dude, that clip is a great find rk.

Of course, why wait to find out if he's guilty!? :right:
I see, why the animal suffers matters. If that works for you, cool.
For me, six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. The end is the same, so it is the same.
I don't like either.
Dog racing, bullfighting, horse racing, this, cock-fighting (still legal in some places in the US), the way we raise chickens, pigs and run our slaughter houses... all the same.
Vic is just us exercising our collective guilt.... IF he is guilty, that is.
To date, he is NOT.

So, cockfighting is okay because it's "cultural" (and chickens, incidentally, aren't terribly personable), but dogfighting, which likely has a longer history and cultural ties is not?

Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dogfighting

And from another ESPN article

Wait, what?

Did they find any drugs?

I am a vegetarian and believe in animal rights, but even accepting the argument that animal rights are a cultural construct and that we shouldn't expect others to share that idea, raising dangerous dogs and training them to kill without any license or permit and contrary to zoning regulations is a great way to get people hurt or killed, too. What if one of the dogs had gotten loose?

Then ther would have been a few missing children and Bush would be getting the blame.

Vick is a licensed dog breeder in VA.

That confuse you did it?

I'd like to see your opinion on raising rodeo bulls based on this. :rolleyes:

A jury of his peers
 

.

Now I've heard everything.

I just heard this on the radio. A prison inmate is claiming, "Michael Vick stole my pitbulls, sold them on ebay and used the proceeds to buy missiles from Iran."