The Cellar - August 3, 2007: Dog swims 4km daily to feed her pups

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- - August 3, 2007: Dog swims 4km daily to feed her pups (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14969)

Criticism should be, and will be, levied against any person who displays a confusion of ideas, while forcing a point where it doesn't belong. Having a strong feeling is important (in its own way), but you have to present yourself in an orderly, logical manner, in order to be taken seriously. If you meander all across the spectrum, it looks like you have no idea what you're talking about. That really doesn't help anybody.

The white privilege being present is the use of Spanish. The Mexicans don't have the privilege, they must conform to the white clouds in the atmosphere. The white people do have the privilege, that is why no one ever knocks on white people for their somewhat inappropriate use of Spanish.
I just want to show everyone a great journal I read.

Quote:

White people need to acknowledge
benefits of unearned privilege©
by Robert Jensen This article appeared in the Baltimore Sun newspaper and was written by a Caucasian professor of journalism at the U of Texas. A followup piece can be found here. ]

Here's what white privilege sounds like: I'm sitting in my University of Texas office, talking to a very bright and very conservative white student about affirmative action in college admissions, which he opposes and I support. The student says he wants a level playing field with no unearned advantages for anyone. I ask him whether he thinks that being white has advantages in the United States. Have either of us, I ask, ever benefited from being white in a world run mostly by white people? Yes, he concedes, there is something real and tangible we could call white privilege.

So, if we live in a world of white privilege – unearned white privilege - how does that affect your notion of a level playing field? I asked. He paused for a moment and said, "That really doesn't matter." That statement, I suggested to him, reveals the ultimate white privilege: The privilege to acknowledge that you have unearned privilege but to ignore what it means. That exchange led me to rethink the way I talk about race and racism with students. It drove home the importance of confronting the dirty secret that we white people carry around with us every day: in a world of white privilege, some of what we have is unearned. I think much of both the fear and anger that comes up around discussions of affirmative action has its roots in that secret. So these days, my goal is to talk open and honestly about white supremacy and white privilege.

White privilege, like any social phenomenon, is complex. In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves. There are general patterns, but such privilege plays out differently depending on context and other aspects of one's identity (in my case, being male gives me other kinds of privilege). Rather than try to tell others how white privilege has played out in their lives, I talk about how it has affected me.

I am as white as white gets in this country. I am of northern European heritage and I was raised in North Dakota, one of the whitest states in the country. I grew up in a virtually all-white world surrounded by racism, both personal and institutional. Because I didn't live near a reservation, I didn't even have exposure to the state's only numerically significant nonwhite population, American Indians.

I have struggled to resist that racist training and the racism of my culture. I like to think I have changed, even though I routinely trip over the lingering effects of that internalized racism and the institutional racism around me. But no matter how much I "fix" myself, one thing never changes - I walk through the world with white privilege.

What does that mean? Perhaps most importantly, when I seek admission to a university, apply for a job, or hunt for an apartment, I don't look threatening. Almost all of the people evaluating me look like me they are white. They see in me a reflection of themselves - and in a racist world, that is an advantage. I smile. I am white. I am one of them. I am not dangerous. Even when I voice critical opinions, I am cut some slack. After all, I'm white.

My flaws also are more easily forgiven because I am white. Some complain that affirmative action has meant the university is saddled with mediocre minority professors. I have no doubt there are minority faculty who are mediocre, though I don't know very many. As Henry Louis Gates Jr. once pointed out, if affirmative action policies were in place for the next hundred years, it's possible that at the end of that time the university could have as many mediocre minority professors as it has mediocre white professors. That isn't meant as an insult to anyone, but it's a simple observation that white privilege has meant that scores of second-rate white professors have slid through the system because their flaws were overlooked out of solidarity based on race, as well as on gender, class and ideology.

Some people resist the assertions that the United States is still a bitterly racist society and that the racism has real effects on real people. But white folks have long cut other white folks a break. I know, because I am one of them. I am not a genius - as I like to say, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have been teaching full time for six years and I've published a reasonable amount of scholarship. Some of it is the unexceptional stuff one churns out to get tenure, and some of it, I would argue, is worth reading. I worked hard, and I like to think that I'm a fairly decent teacher. Every once in a while, I leave my office at the end of the day feeling like I really accomplished something. When I cash my pay check, I don't feel guilty. But, all that said, I know I did not get where I am by merit alone. I benefited from among other things, white privilege. That doesn't mean that I don't deserve my job, or that if I weren't white I would never have gotten the job. It means simply that all through my life, I have soaked up benefits for being white.

All my life I have been hired for jobs by white people. I was accepted for graduate school by white people. And I was hired for a teaching position by the predominantly white University of Texas, headed by a white president, in a college headed by a white dean and in a department with a white chairman that at the time had one nonwhite tenured professor. I have worked hard to get where I am, and I work hard to stay there. But to feel good about myself, and my work, I do not have to believe that "merit" as defined by white people in a white country, alone got me here. I can acknowledge that in addition to all that hard work, I got a significant boost from white privilege. At one time in my life, I would not have been able to say that, because I needed to believe that my success in life was due solely to my individual talent and effort. I saw myself as the heroic American, the rugged individualist. I was so deeply seduced by the culture's mythology that I couldn't see the fear that was binding me to those myths.

Like all white Americans, I was living with the fear that maybe I didn't really deserve my success, that maybe luck and privilege had more to do with it than brains and hard work. I was afraid I wasn't heroic or rugged, that I wasn't special. I let go of some of that fear when I realized that, indeed, I wasn't special, but that I was still me. What I do well, I still can take pride in, even when I know that the rules under which I work in are stacked to my benefit. Until we let go of the fiction that people have complete control over their fate - that we can will ourselves to be anything we choose - then we will live with that fear.

White privilege is not something I get to decide whether I want to keep. Every time I walk into a store at the same time as a black man and the security guard follows him and leaves me alone to shop, I am benefiting from white privilege. There is not space here to list all the ways in which white privilege plays out in our daily lives, but it is clear that I will carry this privilege with me until the day white supremacy is erased from this society.

Fresh, you and many others are attempting to redefine a common term. Racism defined does not include the word "white person".

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 371451)

And guess what... Did I miss anyone?

All Scots/Kiwis fцck sheep.

I don't think I'm trying to redefine the word racism. Heck the first recorded racism probably happened between Ancient Egypt and the Nubians.

I'm here to discuss and explain as best what I know based off my life experiences, no one can discredit me on that.

Let me share one story before I leave for the rest of the day.

I remember two years ago or so I was inside my Jewel Osco (grocery store) and looking at the magazines. Specifically the video game and computer gaming magazines. An elderly white lady past behind me and stopped to my left. She gazed around for a second then said abruptly "isn't it awful how they can put that crap on shelves? I can't believe they allow those people to do that." She was obviously referring to the hip hop and import car magazines slightly below the gaming magazines I was looking at (she thought I was looking at those mags). I wasn't expecting her to have said anything and her statement was a bit off, to me at least, so I was like "uh...eh" and didn't say anything as I didn't even really know how to react. She then looked at me with a disapproving frown and said "Oh, you don't speak English do you."

Have you ever experienced such a high level of racism that you can't even comprehend it? I was so amazed that she said this. My eyes widened and I stuttered, "I, I, what? I speak English....." I was at a total loss of words because I could not believe what had just happened. My friends were like "dude I woulda slapped that bitch" after I told them. My white friends were like "that's fucked up" too.

I am certainly not here to degrade white people, if anyone has assumed of me of that is mistaken. I am here to share what I know and my feelings on subjects and issues and I am sorry if they anger some of you. But at the end of the day I am going to be who I am. I am trying to bring some diversity to this board, because my experiences definitely do not match up with many of yours and vice versa. But isn't that a good thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 371872)

I don't think I'm trying to redefine the word racism.

Quote:

Have you ever experienced such a high level of racism that you can't even comprehend it? I was so amazed that she said this. My eyes widened and I stuttered, "I, I, what? I speak English....." I was at a total loss of words because I could not believe what had just happened. My friends were like "dude I woulda slapped that bitch" after I told them. My white friends were like "that's fucked up" too.

So it's not about racism. Oh. Ok, glad you cleared that up. :rolleyes:

Dude, don't you see it? You have fallen for the concept hook, line, and sinker. Take the issue, "racism", redefine it, not my problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 371852)

The concept is about as valid as a made up holiday.

As opposed to holidays that haven't been made up yet?

Oh, God. Not the "whether holdiays are made up or not" fiasco. Again.

Fresh. I agree with some of what you are saying. Being white in the West is a distinct advantage most of the time. But...that doesn't mean that all white people are advantaged by being white.

To suggest that racism is alive and well in America is not exactly unorthodox. Nor, is it unorthodox to suggest that a person is more, or less likely to experience the world in a particular way depending on their ethnic origin and skin colour.

But...and this is where my understanding of the world veers sharply from yours. Being white, is not in and of itself a protection from bigotry, disadvantage, poverty, exploitation or abuse. The world is not that simple. To suggest that a white skin means you have no understanding of what it is to be subject to those things is, if you'll forgive me, a little naive. To suggest that nobody with white skin knows what it is like to be subject to insulting and degrading stereotypes, is likewise naive.

The points you raise about the hidden, unthought of advantages that being white in America brings are interesting and valid. But the world is more complicated than white -v- ethnic minority.

I've got 5 bucks sez that the Worlds Tallest Man comes down to the river and uses his body as a bridge for the dog to cross over to the island.

The doggie is Chinese, but also part white (and light brown).

you see what you want to see

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

I remember two years ago or so I was inside my Jewel Osco (grocery store) and looking at the magazines. Specifically the video game and computer gaming magazines. An elderly WHITE lady past behind me and stopped to my left. She gazed around for a second then said abruptly "isn't it awful how they can put that crap on shelves? I can't believe they allow those people to do that." She was obviously referring to the hip hop and import car magazines slightly below the gaming magazines I was looking at (she thought I was looking at those mags). I wasn't expecting her to have said anything and her statement was a bit off, to me at least, so I was like "uh...eh" and didn't say anything as I didn't even really know how to react. She then looked at me with a disapproving frown and said "Oh, you don't speak English do you."

Have you ever experienced such a high level of racism that you can't even comprehend it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elderly white lady

I was at the grocery store, and I saw a nice young man reading a computer magazine. I noticed that the store also stocked those horrible magazines with the girls in skimpy outfits all over the cover. I commented to the young man about how those sleazy pornographers are allowed to put that kind of magazine on the shelves at a grocery store where families shop.

He just stared at me with a strange, bewildered expression on his face. I have no idea what he could have been thinking. Does he have no social skills? Does he not speak English? He just stammered some nonsense, so I continued on my way. I have no idea what his problem was.

Two years later, and you’re still fuming about this "racist" encounter. The "white" lady didn't specifically mention anything about race; she didn't do or say anything that couldn't have a non-racist explanation. The "racism" could have been in your imagination - notice that you're the one injecting racist commentary into this encounter.

You constantly assume racism to be the motivating factor in your encounters with white people. Therefore you are classifying them by race, and assigning qualities to them based on race. That's racism!

Flint you are the master of rationalization. If you honestly don't feel like she was acting racist then you have are trying everything you can to discredit me or you are the epitome of ignorance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 371964)

Flint you are the master of rationalization. If you honestly don't feel like she was acting racist then you have are trying everything you can to discredit me or you are the epitome of ignorance.

So is this about White Privilege or racism?

This "white people have privileges" issue leads to nothing.
If a guy in Tibet would never know of internet and western culture he would never think he has less privileges.
Missionaries carried christendom into the jungle (they might even have thought it would help). Think about it and ask yourself if it makes sense to normalize all cultural values and traditions to bring all to a "white" niveau.
Sure there's apartheid and racism on a grand scale on this planet. But I think the privileges you have should be seen in cultural context.
In some parts of the world you're king of your village with two cows. Here you need a Villa and several German cars.

regarding the initial topic: I really don't get your point: people in china do eat dogs.
Yes I say this in general, I could also say : People in America do drive cars. Despite the fact that kids, most elderly and some other guys don't drive cars.
But I can also say Italians don't eat dogs. There _are_ cultural differences. And some of them are funny. For me and for you. If you're a native chinese, then all this touching, hugging and hand shaking of those long nosed western people is strange to you.

As a kid I learned the importance of being able to laugh about oneself.
Life's much easier with this ability, Freshnesschronic.

mike

Back to the dog. I think we need to get her one of these:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/gr/bly/bly2107.jpg

Thanks, DanaC for not completely trying to dishevel me.
I hope you've gotten something out of the article I posted and the story I posted, even if you don't agree completely or understand completely, respecting where I come from with my ideas is the most important thing to me.

Understand completely? How condescending.
Look, we all know most everyone has prejudices, but when you play the racism card you are making a mass accusation. You'll get your ass handed to you for that.

No tolerance for people that practice racism or people that cry racism.

Completely understand my experiences and my world view, that's all. That's why I said

Quote:

respecting where I come from with my ideas is the most important thing to me.

And Bruce, if MLK didn't cry racism....where would we be.

The question is, do you understand your experiences? An old lady speaks to you and you just stare at her. When she makes the assumtion you can't understand her because you didn't respond, you claim racism. Hmmm.

I remember MLK, I've seen MLK... freshnesschronic, you're no MLK.

And you understand my experiences better than me? I'm disgusted how much people want to disprove anything I say and will rationalize anything that can be used against me. To think her assumption of me not being able to speak English isn't racist is just absurd. I live in America. Why shouldn't she think I speak English? Because I look different from her, a white person? Therefore I don't speak English, that's her assumption right? That assumption isn't racist? Why else would she think I don't speak English, I'm not wearing a t-shirt that says "I don't speak English." The official language of the United States is English, for her to assume I cannot understand because I hesitated in a response is ridiculous. In the last week I have experienced two more encounters of racism. I was profiled in the airport in Tri Cities, TN and was patted down and the whole sha bang a bang. Why? You take a guess. Today me and my friends were playing basketball at the local college. We were all minorities. Some old white guy in a golf cart approaches us and tells us the gym is closed. Yet there was a white guy on the other side of the court shooting by himself. We say "what about him?" The old guy says "he's with me." They never look at each other, I assumed they didn't even know each other. "He's with me?" Sounds a little shady, but with everyone here I bet all these situations of racism can be rationalized right? Jesus why can't anyone see things for what they really are instead of trying skirt the real issue.

Who said I was comparable to MLK, not I! You said you don't tolerate people who cry racism. MLK qualifies as one of those people. Didn't he cry racism? Bah, I have to go to work.

And it never occurred to you she thought you couldn't speak English because you didn't answer her, just stood there staring at her? There is a fuck of a lot of people in this country that don't speak English, you know.

MLK didn't cry racism, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson cry racism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

In the last week I have experienced two more encounters of racism. I was profiled in the airport in Tri Cities, TN and was patted down and the whole sha bang a bang. Why? You take a guess.

What, are you Arabic now? Guess what dude, I'm a white woman carrying a baby, and I've been patted down and the whole "sha bang a bang" too, multiple times. My baby got patted down, no kidding. Hell, I've been taken into a separate room and had my luggage opened and gone through piece by piece. Oh my God those guys were so totally racist!!

White privilege, what a joke. I did not get a scholarship I was the most qualified for at Yale (yeah, someone there told me, she was pissed about it), wanna' know why, because I was white.
You might want to check out the percentages of Asians in Ivy League colleges before shooting your pie hole off about "White Privilege".
You also might want to check out the average Asian's yearly income, then yak some.
In fact, look at ANY of the numbers then open your mouth... but, then you might not.
I also had to wait for two people to get a promotion before me that were less educated, had less experience and were less qualified for the position and my boss told me that it was because of their race/sex.
Guess what, people did not respect them and it harms their race... they walked past their office to my cube to get things done right, a shining example of "White Privilege" that... they get the salary and management makes me do the work, Yay whitey!
Asians eat dogs, the French and some Germans eat horses... so what?
It is not prejudice, fact...sure not all but those are the one's who do it.
Not a race issue, it is a cultural issue.
I have no issue with it, if I went to a restaurant an someone told me the dog was the best thing on the menu I would eat it.
It is true, there IS NO difference between a dog and a pig or cow, both make good pets and are both, probably, equally delicious.
People gotta' separate their emotions from their intellect, that includes you and this fucked-up imaginary race thing you have going on.
BTW, Asians, as a minority deserve everything they get, culturally on-average, education is very important and they make sacrifices that most families could not IMAGINE in their wildest dreams to get their kids ahead and the kids do the same to deserve it... that is not racism... it is a cultural norm.

Valid points rk. You weren't persuaded by the article. So be it. It's all good. I still respect you very much. This thread is getting tiresome like Shawnee said, time to kill it.

No, I was not... the article and website were jokes.

Why, you didn't write them?
What is going on here man?
You are acting weird.

Are you kidding me? I couldn't write something like that. Here's the link.
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/gmklass/foi/re..._privilege.htm
What do you mean what is going on? I was just saying sorry the article did nothing for you, it's all good though no biggie. I'm not ramming it down your throat telling you it's doctrine, just some other point of view that I feel is a valid perspective. If you don't then that's your call.
Hey here's another book from my anthro class, this whole time I couldn't remember the phrase "white public space" but I finally did and here's the book. http://www.anthrosource.net/doi/abs/...1998.100.3.680

I think it's weird that someone goes and takes close up pics of the bitch and her pups but doesn't bother taking the whole lot of them off the little 'island' they're on.

It's just odd.

"Odd"... is that your word for BS? Cause' it is for mine in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 372234)

Sure, but we just disagree, I see your point and just disagree.
I just don't think you see my point.
I don't believe in fair. Just ain't gonna' happen. In fact trying to do something about it has made life unfair for those like me.
I did not use Asians by mistake.
They have prejudice, lots of it, more than most because most don't see them as a threat in fact.
But, on average, a HUGE average do FAR better in school, in business and in LIFE in the US than EVERYONE else. Whites included, because they don't bitch about fair... they just do something about it. They suck-it-up and get-it-on... and they deserve being 50+% of Harvard's graduating class last year.
Fair is a pipe-dream, a fairy-tale, it is feel-good politics and always a waste of time and money.
Equal in the eyes of the law is right, then let the people who want it the most rise to the top.
That is all you can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic (Post 371774)

Sorry Grismar. You can block me, you know.
Welcome to the Cellar :D!
But I think you might be a clone of someone....a sockpuppet or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucksNuts (Post 371789)

Meh, I dont think Grismar is a sock puppet.

I tend to think that any of the regular dwellars with *that* to say, would stand loud and proud and say it under their regular name.

Anyways Fresh, I think you over reacted a tad, it seemed kinda OTT.

Fact is, *some* Asians do eat dog and its an IotD.

Welcome Grismar :D

It's good to see that both proponents and opponents of a somewhat heated issue can put the issue aside to welcome new users :)

And in line with what would be expected of a sock puppet, I'll go on record telling you I'm no such thing. I'll be here, lurking in the shadows, since any attempt to match your #'s of posts are futile...

Greetings,
Grismar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 372243)

I think it's weird that someone goes and takes close up pics of the bitch and her pups but doesn't bother taking the whole lot of them off the little 'island' they're on.

It's just odd.

I concur entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grismar (Post 372254)

...snip...., since any attempt to match your #'s of posts are futile...

Greetings,
Grismar.

BS, just get in the post whore thread and the word association thread and awwwwwaaayyyy you go :)

rkz...yeah, bs is probably pretty close to equivalent to odd in this case.

I see you're fluffing the newbies again ducksy. ;)

Fluffer pay is quite good considering you are always the bridesmaid......

Well, I don't know what they get paid, but I imagine the lure of one day making it onto the set is quite tempting.

I actually disagree with the idea that the person taking the picture should have got the dogs away to somewhere else. Unusual for me, because I am a major dog person as most of you know.

Thing is, that dog is obviously feral. It is coping quite happily with its situation, despite how exhausting it must be. That dog is doing her job as a mum and taking care of her pups and seems to me to be coping admirably. The pups are only helpless for a relatively short time, a few months max. I'd say leave them to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 372243)

I think it's weird that someone goes and takes close up pics of the bitch and her pups but doesn't bother taking the whole lot of them off the little 'island' they're on.

It's just odd.

It's like why doesn't the cameraman give one of those kids with the flies all over them a bologna sandwich? :bolt:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Thing is, that dog is obviously feral. It is coping quite happily with its situation, despite how exhausting it must be. That dog is doing her job as a mum and taking care of her pups and seems to me to be coping admirably. The pups are only helpless for a relatively short time, a few months max. I'd say leave them to it.

Not only that, you can damn well bet the mother dog doesn't want any people coming and touching her babies. And if they move them while she's gone, how will she find them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grismar (Post 372254)

If you were a sock puppet, I would have said so. I checked as soon as it was mentioned.
Welcome and stick around, you might get addicted to this place.

Who says they're feral? If they are, they probably should be shot not turned into a sideshow.

Why shot? They're just goin on bein wild. Not doin anybody any harm.

Who knows? Maybe they're rabid? They could have all sorts of disease, and also, if they're wild and they're living in areas where small children play, who's to say they wont catch one for food one day? ( I mean the dogs catch the child of course )

Feril animals in general are a problem one way or another. Ask anyone who lives on the land.

A dingo doesn't eat your baby in China!

Feral does not mean dangerous. Just because they have thrown off the yoke of oppression, by the opposable thumb can openers, doesn't mean they should be assassinated.

I thought feral meant wild, not freed by humans.

Usually it's used to describe critters, or their descendants, that were formerly tame and have reverted to the wild. Lions, tigers, etc, are not feral.

We have feral cats in the valley. They're not really a problem.

You learn something everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 372765)

We have feral cats in the valley. They're not really a problem.

They are for the birds, squirrels, rabbits and other small ground dwellers.

*shrugs* the neighbourhood Toms go hunting in the valley and the woods. Nature red in tooth and claw.

Are you serious Dana? you dont see ferel cats as a problem?

They are a HUGE problem here, they have wiped out (or near) many of our little marsupials and the native birds take a real hiding.

Lots of cats are kept in doors at night and plenty of houses now have cat runs, so the cats are never unleashed on the wildlife.

Feral cats are a HUGE problem.
We used to have robins, no more, because of feral cats and people who lets their cats out, which are feral cats.
On the ranch we shot them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

They are a HUGE problem here, they have wiped out (or near) many of our little marsupials and the native birds take a real hiding.

Yeah, but I thought basically all placental mammals were massive threats to all your marsupial creatures. That's why they have all those strict penalties and restrictions nowadays against bringing any type of animal from outside the country. Guess the cats made it in under the deadline?

Nah, not much is a threat to the Roo and Wombat (except a threat of the 2 legged and 4 wheeled type).

Actually, not too many of our marsupials are threatened to extinction by our native predators....its been the introduced species that have caused most of the danger.

The majority of the restrictions are for disease, we dont have rabies etc....but we have been bitten badly by introduced species. Ones that have been introduced to eradicate other pests (introduced species usually).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

Actually, not too many of our marsupials are threatened to extinction by our native predators....its been the introduced species that have caused most of the danger.

But that's what I meant... my biology professor taught us that by definition all placentals were introduced on the continent by humans. Australia developed crazy pouch-creatures, and the rest of the world developed placentals. So all your cats would count as an introduced species.

I think. On the other hand, I did get a C in that class. Man, I hated that guy.

What drives me nuts are the lunatic pussies who freak out and try to stop the killing of feral species.
Makes no sense, just wipe them out... what is the issue?
We have that problem here with pigs, cats, those fucking ducks... don't want them dead, bring them into your home.