I would imagine that of all the medical specialties, oncologists would be pretty used to people bursting into tears. I would make that one so far last on the list of things to think about that it doesn't even rate. ;)

You guys are the best. I can't begin to say ... it all comes out sounding stupid and trite. But you are seriously keeping me on an even keel here.

'The only thing I can promise you is that we here in the Cellar will stick by you no matter what,' - xoxoxobruce.

I hereby withdraw my comments about never having met any ... let's say decent ... men (all right, I admit the 'nice, normal' thing was a howler). The Cellar is full of them! And wonderful women. Generally great human beings.

I'm looking into alternatives to WVU for surgery. UPMC is a possibility, and there's an independent surgical group with a plastics guy right here in town that apparently work much faster than the lumbering bureaucratic teaching system. My oncologist emailed back tonight that the surgeons will try to facilitate something faster once I've seen the plastic surgeon Monday - only my appointment is Thursday, maybe it's just a typo. It's all very vague, though. Think I'll try to get at least one other opinion in the meantime and then I hope someone will offer something sooner than October.

Guess I have to take a careful look at the ADA as well. I hadn't thought of it in terms of acute-onset illnesses but will check it out.
And yeh, I thought about the 'blown mind' thing with my un-friend and sent out a little contact, some gentle explanation that there are no big expectations or demands in the offing but would appreciate hearing from him. Nothing all day. I can give it forever, what the hell. I think the result will be the same, but at least I gave it a try.

So ... thanking all of you again and holding onto your support and warmth. I will get through this and YOU guys will be the reason why.

Haven't been around due to I-net woes, so I am only now reading this thread. Oh, orthodoc! My heart goes out to you as well as all the positive healing vibes I can send your way. Plus what everyone else said.

I'm pretty sure Bruce is right about the ADA, and the university could end up being a very sad entity if it tries to fuck you over just because you became sick. Fuck them and fuck cancer.

And if your "friend" doesn't come around, it's good to know sooner rather than later that he's worthless at emotional support. Also, you just never know with men. When I was in a position to, I did many favors for my own platonic male friend. He never seemed that appreciative, and I often felt he took my efforts for granted. But then I got laid off from my job and there he was leaving a $20 bill on my coffee table or buying me smokes when I was out or having me over to his place for dinner because he was worried I wasn't getting enough to eat. Guys. There's still some decent ones around.

Hang in there, sweetie!

That's a good point about the "friend." It's better to know now what his true colors are.

I think it's outstanding that you aren't just accepting this October BS. Keep pushing!

Hahahahaha awesome.

Also I'm sending good vibes your way. Cancer is a douche.

Healing hugs from here to there. Fuck 'em all!
Get on the phone and talk to the Ins. Co. Try to reason with them at first and if they aren't willing to listen, you have other options. Find out what they'll pay and start calling Docs yourself then get back to the ins co.

Do the same with the school. The LAST thing they want to do is be sued. Just keep asking for a supervisor or boss until you get to the person that can actually make a decision.

Got a second opinion from another general surgeon today; I really liked him. He's in private practice, very experienced, thorough, talked fast but gave me plenty of time to ask questions and bring up issues. He shared the current literature views, his own thoughts, what he would suggest to his wife in the same situation, and then said it was up to me. I see the plastic surgeon he works with on Tuesday. He talked about some innovative things they do in terms of reconstruction and incisions, to get a better permanent cosmetic result and lessen trauma. If I like the plastic surgeon as well as this guy, I'll book with them. And they can do my surgery the beginning of September if not sooner.

Also got to talk to the pathologist who looked at my biopsy slides. She's the department chief and a two-year breast cancer survivor herself. She had a lot of sound, wise advice based on her own experience. I left the conversation with a lot of new thoughts.

So ... a very positive day! I'll also see the plastic surgeon who works with the first surgeon (the one I didn't like) next week, so I'll be able to compare the two teams - but I think I'll be hiring the guy I saw today. It's a tremendous relief to finally have some options and a sense of getting close to a firm plan. My brain may even clear enough to let me get some work done this weekend. High time. :)

Excellent! When left with nothing but your imagination it's likely to go places that are extreme, and leave you feeling helpless. Now you've got solid options to deal with you can map your strategy. Look out cancer, you're fucked. :thumb:

Thanks Bruce, it's true - having definite options makes a huge difference. I can move forward, can make decisions.

It's bizarre what stress can do ... for the past ten days my brain has been mush. I couldn't bring myself to do normal everyday things, couldn't cook, could barely throw a load of laundry in the machine. Good thing I only had academics last week; I sort of fudged my way through. Next week I have patients to see again - brain has to fire on more than one cylinder or I'll have to take a medical leave, for their sakes.

I've lived through a lot ... but nothing stopped me in my tracks quite like this. It didn't matter what I knew intellectually; psychologically I was ko'd.

The intellectual part was/is part of the problem, though. As much as we know breast cancer treatment has improved A LOT, and as thankful as I am for that, it's also the case that treatment is far from perfect.

Let's just say I'll be glad to have chemo, even though it'll kick my ass. The stuff to kill isn't the primary tumor, or even the local recurrence; it's the distant seeding.

But ... one day at a time. And re-evaluation of everything important in the meantime, which is not a bad thing.

Speaking of which ... it's ten days since I heard from un-friend. Pretty conclusive, right?

And my ex has stepped up in ways I never anticipated - offering anything I need, coming down to pick up my cats, offering to be a second pair of ears/second brain during appointments if I want, offering to come after surgery and at chemo to do necessary things ... if I want. Very respectful, no pushing.

Life - drops boulders on your head, pushes you off cliffs, sucker-punches you. I wish I could get a handle on it.

Appreciate the small victories in your life OD. You can get thru this.
Once I had tests come back and it was all doom for me. 2 weeks later I was told oops sorry we mixed your results with someone else. Good thing I had not eaten a pistol. I have learned that when you are at the bottom up is the only way you can go. I will be your cheerleader! :cheerldr:

Think of Bela Karolyi, YOU CAN DO IT!

Yeah, it was pretty evident you scared him, or at least his imagination scared him. A lot of people go to pieces when someone they know has a medical issue.
Guess he don't want no chick that ain't gonna feel like making him a sandwich. :haha:

Passing up a hot babe... hey, his loss baby.:yesnod:

Yeah, watch out for the ex, just say no, thanks. Seriously. Classic abuser move, ingratiate themselves, create a debt that you owe them, power imbalance, entitlement, the cycle begins again.

Really. The cancer could be a metaphor for abusive relationships or vice versa.

A Jungian therapist once asked a friend of mine, "If [this event in] your life were a dream, what would it mean, how would you interpret it?"

I"m thinking of you orthodoc.

Hugs.

I agree with foot, do not let the ex back into the picture. He is not a nice person, he is only acting nice for his own purposes. You don't need him. Don't let him convince you that you do.

I gotta agree with 3Ft here. Warning bells jangling over your ex's offers of support.

My advice, is not necessarily to close the door on that, but not to call on that offer of help. Thank him for his offers of support. And appreciate the fact that you have some potential backup if you absolutely need it. But be very wary of actually letting him help with anything beyond words of encouragement. he may be absolutely genuine. Sudden illness like this can shake people. But he is also not to be trusted. because shakeups rarely change anybody in fundamental terms. However genuine his desire to help, he cannot be trusted not to slip into controlling behaviours and abuse the status that help would give him in your life.

You are strong enough. You have a handle on this. It's nice to know that someone's rooting for you, and draw strength from that fact. But don't open yourself up the hurt that comes from him not living up to the promise.

That's true, he is a resource which can be used cautiously... I stress cautiously... but only if you're emotionally cold enough to do that.
I don't think you are, I don't think it's your nature to be a user without feeling indebted.

But what do I know. :dunce:

You're right on target ... feeling indebted is part of what gets people hooked into abusive relationships in the first place. I'm not cold enough to be a user (need lessons from un-friend). My ex is being very respectful so far, so I have to keep those boundaries in place. But it's so hard; I've never been so devastated, so vulnerable. I'll have to reread my journals and stay mindful of what brought me to this place originally. Right now, his manner has changed tremendously. But I know, if I were the objective person, I'd be shaking my head.

A complicating factor is that the worst of the abuse was years ago; it settled into more of a neglect/low-grade emotional misery in recent years. I left because I could not get past the damage the abuse had done to me. He was devastated, although he let me go. I know he still cares about me; but the abuse is something I haven't gotten past.

I still have the deal with that damage. I can't just fall back into old patterns. Maintaining boundaries here will be a huge task. At least he isn't urging me to move back 'home', or suggesting I go back on his insurance, or wanting to re-marry me.

Ahhhh, crap.

I heard from un-friend this afternoon. It wasn't exactly an inspiring message - said he hopes this is beatable and semester-sparing etc. - apologized for being incommunicado, said various aspects of his life had been busy/overwhelming. But says he's my - friend - and let's get together soon, talk soon. Says he values our friendship and mutual regard.

I guess this is how he sees our friendship - pick up and drop whenever, and if your friend gets cancer, it doesn't mean you should get in touch if other things in your life are pressing ...

It would've been simpler if he hadn't emailed.

And there's still my ex and his offers of help that I really can't turn down, in cold practical reality ...

I think the universe is laughing at me

It's just saying "Eh... What's up, doc?"

But you've got us for immoral support now.
Which proves your smart enough to know the danger.
Do you know how horses are broken?
I suspect he will in time, he's smart enough to take it slowly.

You're in control, you're the one who decides if he's worth the trouble of making your life more complicated or not.
Help is nice. You said he hasn't offered insurance, so it's pick up the cats, go to your appointments because he can make better decisions, and insert himself anywhere he can... respectfully of course.
Well you know what you need, and where you can and can't get it, so you'll have to decide how close you let either of them.

Please be careful, you don't need extra stress right now, and don't forget we're here rooting for you.
Yay Ortho, fuck cancer.

What Bruce said.

All of it.

Double.

i just stumbled across this thread. Sending prayers & good wishes to you. Wish I could say or do more, but I'm one of those guys that feels useless in these situations. I don't know what to say or do.

Orthodoc, your Mr. Wonderful sounds like a Mr. Wonderful I had a few years ago.

He was an egomaniac, a snob, a 'mentor' type who wanted to pull me into his orbit and had a really teeny tiny dick, too.

watch out for those types. Little dick = Big ego.

He would also very subtly put me down. It was so good, so subtle that I thought it was llllllooooooovvvvvve. HA! It was HIM wiping his ego on my face, if you get my drift. Lose him. You'll be happy that you did. In Oscar Wilde's estimation he would be 'tedious' although he thought himself charming. He wasn't - he was a bore. A snobby bore. He used words like 'anon' as in
"I will email you anon" or "lemman" which is olde english for 'darling' but I think it really means 'my darling slut'. How did I stand him for so long? He was smart and pushed all the right Brianna Buttons. People really ARE charming or tedious. In your heart you know which one Mr. Wonderful is.

Not that this was exactly happening here but some douchebags have apparently worked this out to the level of a studied science.

Hee hee! That's where I found out about it!

The Game. Yeahhh .... what a bunch of douchebags, is right. I LOVE that cartoon, Zen!!

And ... Imma let Mr. W. go. I don't need the particular brand of 'friendship' he offers. A 'friend' who doesn't respond for 13 days after being told his friend has cancer ... can go be friends with himself.

Now that my brain seems to be firing on more than one cylinder again ... I have to get to work. Case analysis presentation tomorrow morning and I haven't even started! :eek:

Second panel from the end is my inner self talking to me.
I don't even have to go on dates to be negged :sniff:

I know that voice.

I keep that fucker locked up down in my internal dungeon. He sometimes makes a helluva racket, and he's been known to escape his cell on occasion. I haven't been able to execute him, but after all the trouble he's caused me, he's never going to be paroled. He has a name, it's Fergie.

Wellllllll ..... it could be ... that W has had a some nasty experiences with cancer himself, maybe lost a friend or relative to it, and was freaked out by the thought of going on that journey again. It took him a while to get his shit together and reconnect.

Maybe.


Or maybe he is just a selfish fair-weather friend and you're right to cut him loose, which does seem more likely.

Or maybe he didn't check his email straight away. Then took a few days to think about how to respond (having been a tad freaked out).

Everyone responds to this stuff differently. Maybe it's not so much a reflection on your friendship as much as a reflection on his attitude to cancer.

the above could be true.

My money says he's a dick. And I KNOW from dick.

Well - given the content of the email he finally sent, which expressed a brief hope that this would be simple and semester-sparing for me, then explained that he'd been incommunicado because of adult kids, work, just SO busy ... and didn't ask how I'm doing ... I don't really think he has traumatic issues with cancer. Just a gut feeling. :right:

I think Bri wins the pot.

....


I must be feeling contrary today. Mischievous. Or, I'm a dick too.

I don't see this as being a dick. Probably we have different definitions of being a dick, and this doesn't match mine. Dick behavior has some malice in it, careless selfishness with some casual, minor meanness. Your description of the email to me says "Whoa, don't want to be involved with you, too much too soon way too much. Oh, look at the time!" kind of wanting to get away, but still has enough manners to reply and (lightly) wish you well and excuse me, I have to go.

The result's the same--you won't be with him, and it's no great loss given his attitude. Sorry for being a dick too. I just don't like to carry around negative thoughts about people like this.

Well - fair enough, from what information you have. I have a little more info that tends to make me more irritated about it all, but nevertheless the result's the same, as you say ... he's bowing out. And that's okay. I admit, I'm a little hypersensitive right now.

BigV - Why on earth would you "carry around negative thoughts about people like this" when you don't even know the person? I have no thoughts about this guy - I am responding to his treatment of a woman I know a little bit and like and can relate to.

ffs. I"m here for orthodoc, not some vague, dick-ish sounding "can't spare a moment for a pal" areshole.

so sue me. I'm on HER side.

I yield to you, your greater knowledge and, fuck, it's *your* opinion after all.

I only risked bringing it up to express *my* thought that I don't like carrying around poor opinions of others. It's a "reap what you sow" "living up or down to my expectations" kind of thing with me. Not about your acquaintance. :)

consider yourself sued?

I think our posts crossed, I had to step out for a trip to the store. To answer your question, I do better in my life when I don't carry around, in my head, thoughts, memories, opinions about others (or myself for that matter) that focus on the negative... it's a burden to me. It's a burden I don't need to bear, so I put it down when I can. There are lots of times with lots of people, myself included, when someone makes a dick move. I just try not to give it more weight than it deserves. I try to separate the "sin from the sinner" if you will. The action has come and gone but the person might still be around. I don't want to be ruled by my emotions. I consider them, they guide me, the energize me, but they're notoriously fickle and poor leaders. I try to lead with my head. And my head tells me that people are more than their words and actions. Words and actions matter, OF COURSE. But

In this case, I'd say: "What a dick." And move on. If it were someone else I would have more contact with, I'd think say: "That was a dick move that one time. Don't be a dick now. I'm looking forward to better this time. I'm glad that's behind us."

well, i'm certainly glad we got that settled.

your first post sounds a bit ...hostile. i hope it wasn't me that created any umbrage in our
communication. that would fuck up my day - but then again, you yield to my 'greater knowledge' - so, it's all good, right buddy?

Ok. This thread officially goes back to orthodoc.

sorry for the distraction.

Quite right. let's have a return to orthodocsy...

Sorry.

I'll get me coat.

That's funny. Because my nickname (used by teachers and everything) was Fergie from second grade until I graduated high school. For reals.

@Dani - :lol:


Glad to say ... I finally have a date set for surgery! What a relief. I was beginning to think it wasn't going to come together until October - it was like: :banghead:. So, Aug. 27 is the day. I get this thing out and get on with healing and treatment ... about time. Whew.

Excellent news!


Dana, you're on report. Which is an anagram of "err pot", which is what you should stop smoking. :p:

Good to see that you've got things moving along nicely Ortho! Sending you healing vibes and buckets of strength!

27th, great. That means only 11 days of emotional turmoil until you're on the road to recovery. You'll be healing by Labor Day. :thumb:

When it runs out. And only then :p

@ Ortho: excellent news chika! You're well on the way to beating this.

therein lies the answer.

Well, I have a change of surgery date - Sept 6 now - but I'm okay with it, as it was a date I was prepared to accept before getting the Aug 27 date, and I'll have a plastic surgeon who I REALLY like, who gave me so much more info that it changed my mind as to the type of procedure I want. And I feel confident with her. It also means keeping my care within one overall team, which is better for communication and further testing/treatment.

Feeling more settled, focusing on work again, and beginning to figure out how to work out my treatment schedule with work. My supervisors and academic faculty are being great. And all of you guys - SO great. I'm grateful for your continuing good wishes ... :thankyou:

You're amazing ortho. I'd be a pile of tears and fears.
Best of luck with everything.

It will be over soon and you'll be so glad you went with the doc you really like!

Good for you! :flower:

Having set dates gives you the something to work with. Planning schedules, and juggling obligations, is a lot better than running in circles wondering what's going on. I'm glad you've found doctors you're comfortable with, it makes for a lot less worry. Keep in mind this is going to take some time, but also, we're here for the long term too. :thumb2:

More tartan-wrapped positive vibes heading over your way!

Thank you!! Yes, I can't believe how much clearer my head is now that I have dates and a firm plan. I'm looking forward to my classes this week, getting my stuff read this afternoon, getting binders ready ... school! It's been such a long time ... I know the bloom will fade fast enough, but for the moment I'm enjoying it! And I really like the stuff I'm studying. It's what I would've liked to get into long ago.

So getting all positive here, I'll just take each day and minute as it comes and work on having Zen appreciation ... and I so much appreciate what you said, Bruce, that you guys are here long term. I know this is a marathon. I'll try not to crump in the first mile :) - but it's tremendous comfort knowing there are so many good people here. Just knowing you're here and ready with a kind word or a virtual hug is priceless.

And ... you guys are spot on with your advice, too. Letting the ex get too close ... big mistake, lesson learned, out of control train that has to be derailed. But ... I had a good reality check and have no illusions about possible emotional support without strings. There are strings like steel hawsers. So, going to explore other avenues of support and cut the hawsers asap. Zen appreciation of learning experiences ... :rolleyes:

If you have any doubts, I'm sure there are a number of us here who would be glad to check your breasts and give an opinion. ;)

:lol: Well, apparently on the night before surgery/day of surgery, someone's supposed to draw in marker all over the affected breast to make sure the surgeon operates on the proper side ... my MPH program advisor, who had breast cancer, said she had her friends in to draw pictures all over her breast in multi-colors!! They made a party of it. So that's an idea ... :p:

Hawsers, eh? A nautical gal!

Either that or a polymath ;)