If beating kids was gonna solve the violence problem in the black community, there would be no violence problem in the black community. AA kids are getting the belt every fucking day and they take their whuppin from Mom/Dad/Uncle/Aunty/Grandwhatever and then they take it out on their neighborhood.

...how easily the learned give up the evidence of their senses to preserve the coherence of ideas in their imagination.

I think Sending in The Moms is a good idea. I think The Moms have Authority, and that's respected. The mom in the picture, she's using Power to accentuate, or remind her son of that Authority.

It's possible. No. It's NECESSARY to send in the moms (and dads and aunties and uncles, etc) for just the reason that xoB and others have expressed. The respect for our social contract, the fabric of our communities (because the police are an important and inextricable thread in that fabric) is learned by the youngsters, who become older, but it's learned by the observations they make of all the things around them. What the parental figures do and say. What they see at school and in the neighborhood, including the behavior of the cops. What (crap) they see on the tv and videos and movies. What they see their friends doing and what the people they'd like to be their friends are doing. All that and more is combined to produce the net result and the net behaviors.

Who has the greatest influence on that result? The parents. In some extreme cases, the influence of the parents can outweigh all the other factors combined, but usually not. Usually it's just the single biggest force. And even the parent's input is mixed. There isn't a parent here who can say their work as a parent has been flawless. Sometimes it's a contradiction, saying this and doing that. What does a youngster make of that mixed message? The same is true with the larger pool of influences, they're mixed. Training the kids on what to look for, what to shoot for, and how to discern the good influences from the bad, the helpful from the hurtful, indeed, right from wrong, that's parent-gold.

The mom in the picture is just reminding her son right from wrong. NOW, maybe the kid gets beaten every day for any goddamn thing. Could be. And that would be fucked up, that would be wrong, that would train the kid that the world's to be feared and that rioting is not an unreasonable approach. WTF do I know? I am just looking at one picture, one instant. Naturally, I'm reading a LOT into the picture.

But even though the cops aren't social workers, and they're not, much of the shit they have to deal with would be best handled by using the tools of social workers. Cops have lots of tools, they pick and choose what they think is the best tool for the job all the goddamn time. When they get it right, woo hoo. Not even a cookie, not for doing your chosen job right. When they choose wrong, bad stuff happens. And that wrong choice is sometimes NOT putting on the social worker hat and instead drawing a gun or a baton.

A riot is not the time for social work--the tools needed there are the ones in the riot gear kit. But that's only because as gvidas has eloquently pointed out (and quoted) the authority of the police is gone.

Toad,

Obviously, we have very different ideas of what constitutes a statement of (my) philosophy.

As you like.

#

Lamp,

“We disagree.”

Yes, we do.

#

Spexx,

“That's crazy, right Henry?”

When you trash your own neighborhood cuz you’re pissed at the cops: yeah, crazy as a shithouse mouse.

Now, when you trundle in from outside the neighborhood, involve yourself in a matter that’s not your concern, trash that neighborhood with no consideration given for the folks who live there and who may depend on the businesses trashed, then you’re asshole.

My description was of the actions of the Sons of Liberty.

What do you wonder, xoB? The quote in your post doesn't come from the article you linked to.

do you wonder why black americans and white americans see the police differently?

do you wonder why so many "race-riots" have been sparked by a police incident?

or do you wonder about something else? your post is ambiguous to me.

Spexx,

"the Sons of Liberty"

Who are they?

V,

"do you wonder why black americans and white americans see the police differently?"

I wonder why folks insist on grouping themselves (or others).

Ain't no monoliths as far as I can tell.

Spexx,

Looked 'em up.

You believe the Boston Tea Party is synonymous with what happened in Baltimore?

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/sons.htm

Doesn't seem the same at all to me.

hq, I don't think you're being serious when you respond that way.

I said what I said in the context of the posts and the articles linked to in the posts. You may go back and read or reread them to help you understand. Also, I'm not suggesting that groups are monoliths. But there are groups, "black americans", "white americans", "rioters", these are just a few recently discussed examples.

As for grouping and groups, it's obvious to me, and many others, that groups are a useful organizing concept. I'm sure you knew that.

V,

Yeah, I was pokin' at you.

But, seriously...

Surely, there are blacks who see police as whites (supposedly) do?

Surely, there are whites who see police as blacks (supposedly) do?

It's not groupings I object to but the assumption that ALL of a group feel or think the same way.

*shrug*

henry, Give it a rest, the riots are over. Now is the time for rebuilding. And I think that Mother did the right thing.

It's not necessary for me to accurately describe any aspect of your philosophy in order for us to discuss this matter. If the word philosophy is troubling here then you may substitute "thinking" or "belief" or whatever meaning you might take in order to advance the conversation.

If I have your belief incorrect you may certainly correct me, and I would have to accept that; and then we move forward, which would be great. In the meantime, all we have is a semantic evasion of my point. You should avoid that. My point stands.

Oh, is that right? Is that what happens in your neighborhood? Every kid gets beat up by family every day? Bullshit. Your over the top scenarios don't fly, except with the most rabid pacifists. You should write commercials for the Humane Society. When whites riot they do the same thing, does that mean they all get beat up every day.
I wasn't talking about children here anyway, I was talking about these punks who think they are dressing like ninjas when they're dressing like Hollywood clowns. What would you do? Say, "Son I'm disappointed in your anti-social outburst, we'll discuss this at length when you return home from the riot."
If so, you fail.

@Big-V. You're right, I linked the wrong version of the article which was co-published at Pro-Publica and Politico.

thanks for the new link. still, what do you wonder about?

THAT, was sarcasm.

I wonder why the life of a black person taken by a black person has less value than the life of a black person taken by a white person.

I wonder why black people do not riot when Boko Harem kidnaps 100 or so black children.

Why are the black people not rioting about all the black people dying all over the world?

Why aren't these people who are rioting not running for public office in order to change the community they live in?

Why are they not making an effort to stay felony-free so that they can run for public office and effect change?

Toad,

“My point stands.”

As I say (and will probably say again and again): as you like.

#

Grav,

“Why?”

Mostly, I think, cuz there’s no profit to be had for folks in the American Race Industry.

#

Fargon,

“the riots are over”

For the moment.

Profit?!:eyebrow:

Grav,

Moola...lettuce...money.

Whole whack of folks in America who make a decent or better living 'representing' race issues.

Really, what these folks do is promote division and dependence thereby securing their (growing) bank accounts.

Shit goin' down outside the U.S. won't earn 'em a buck; shit continuing within the U.S. does.

You just gotta follow the scrip.

I'm waiting to see what the black dwellars have to say in this thread.

:corn:

I believe politics have played a significant role…where [D] = Democrat, [R] = GOP

[D] LBJ signed the Civil Rights AND Aid to Dependent Children laws
Consequence: Job training, health clinics, $ added to family budgets
Consequence: US debt increased

[R] GOP adopted “Southern Strategy”
Consequence: Gerrymandering
Consequence: myths of voter fraud/ID to reduce Black voting
Consequence: White flight from cities and urban schools

[R] Congress prohibits federal $-support if an adult male lives in the house.
Consequence: adult males pushed out of the household.
Consequence: Black fathers were removed from their family
Consequence: Black children lose adult-relationships with their fathers

[R] Congress reduced federal $-support for “child care” and “job training”
Consequence: Single women were frozen in place as “Head of Household”
Consequence: Unemployed single mothers/children live in poverty

[D] Clinton established new Drug and Mandatory Sentencing laws
Consequence: Police concentrate on arresting black males on felony charges
Consequence: 1 in 3 Black men go to prison sometime in their lifetime

Consequence: Police militarize, move to police cars, stop “community policing”,
Consequence: Police change strategy from “Protect and Serve” to “we-vs-them”
Consequence: Police establish police unions and “Police Bill of Rights”
Consequence: Police essentially immune from prosecution

[R] GOP governors reduced business taxes by shifting $ from social programs
[R] GOP governors reduced property taxes by shifting $ from education
Consequence: White flight from cities and public schools
Consequence: Increased class size in public schools
Consequence: Public schools fail in mission to educate

[R] GOP established “No Child Left Behind”
Consequence: Teachers “teach for test”, not for education
Consequence: White flight from public schools to private and charter schools

---

Nobody said every kid every day. The belt is a common tool, I've seen the fucking welts on 5 year olds. Sorry, I'm not buying the Moms need to start beating their kids now narrative. If Mom was a competent parent that kid would've been at the kitchen table doing his math. The beating he gets on tv may shame him for right now but I'm not buying the narrative that black kids are not being hit enough.

Of course the answer is, and always has been, better parenting. I'll wager there's as many parents feeding their kids crap food, or ignoring them completely, as there are beating their kids constantly. Corporal punishment is a valuable tool for a parent, but those against it immediately go to Digr's child medieval torture chamber scenarios, and glatt's "horror" at mom catching her kid rioting and slapping him around.

Yes, life in the ghetto is violent, and kids grow up tough in self defense. But that's not because Mom slapped them around. The streets are ruled by thugs, armed thugs because people in the ghetto don't have a choice other than get out, and that takes money. They know it's safer to duck and cover than call the cops.

:flipbird:

Destruction of property for political gain. Terrorism, really.


Not just any white person. A white person in a position of authority. One who has, in the past, been allowed to kill African Americans with no consequences, when an African American would be lynched for merely speaking to a white woman. Wonder no more.

What? Why?
Same reason white people aren't rioting about all the white people dying in the world.
Do you know they're not? Whites outnumber blacks 4 to 1, nationally. If they decide that a black candidate won't get elected, s/he won't. It happens.

It sounds like you're saying that all black people are felons. Black folks above poverty levels aren't going to commit a felony any more than a white person above poverty levels. The problem is that "the man" is keeping him down. People who have nothing to lose will act desperately until they have something to lose.

I think the person who, in the past, was allowed to kill African Americans with no consequence...just for talkin' to a white woman... would have to be MUCH older than the police officers in question in this timely debate. Just sayin'

Hey, where are da white wimman at? :lol:

Lot of glossing over, there, Spexx.

People are glossing over, be-bopping and scatting all over the place.

No glossing, a lot of people are pissed off over six cops illegally arresting and killing a black man, AGAIN. They know full well the cops will get away with it AGAIN, unless they can get the attention of the press/politicians/Justice-Dept. Protests are the ONLY way they can do that successfully.

So less than 100 punks rioted for fun & profit out of a city black population of 404,000. But that's all you can see because that's all you want to see, you've made up your mind them niggers is no good.

Ha! I leave such hi-jinks to the childer.

The idea of being in that situation now scares me. I am left somewhat shaking my head in bemusement at my younger self . I remember me and J running along the outer edge of the poll tax demo, trying to get to the front where the demo met the police. Saw several people coming the other way, back from what had turned into a frontline battle, with headwounds - some lay on the grass verge being tended to by first aiders.

We kept running along the sides, pushing past to get to the action. What the fuck was going on in my head?

It's all very different when you're 18 and immortal.

Here's a list of some of the other 89 people the cops killed this MONTH.
I'm sure some must have been justified.

Update: This list says 101 for April.

"Whatever the apparent cause of any riots may be, the real one is always want of happiness. It shows that something is wrong in the system of government that injures the felicity by which society is to be preserved." Thomas Paine

Freddie Gray death ruled homicide; officers charged
CNN - Michael Pearson, Steve Almasy and Ben Brumfield, CNN
Updated 8:16 PM ET, Fri May 1, 2015

Sure didn't see that coming... at all, or so quickly !


:jail:

Maybe it just takes time, resources, and authority...

Nigerian military: 234 more females rescued from Boko Haram
Associated Press | May 2, 2015

The press and the Baltimore Police Union are trying to discredit these indictments as "Rush to Justice".

But the State's Attorney has publicly discussed her independent use
of State Police investigators (separate from the Baltimore Police Dept)
starting the day after the death of Freddie Gray, and that she waited
for the Baltimore Police Dept and the Pathologist's reports before
issuing the indictments.

So, her indictments are independent- and time-separated
from whatever went on during the city's investigations and report.

Certainly she was elected recently by significant support from the Black community.
But she has the credibility to completely turn around what was a riot/demonstration
against the Baltimore police into peaceful and welcome community supported demonstration.

And here they are.
But but but half of them are black!
That's why I've been saying, the problem is not white, the problem is not black, the problem is BLUE.

That seems a little too black & white.

Racism was never about (limited to) color of skin. Racism has always been about judging someone only on a first impression.

Those people should never have judged the police officers involved on only their first impression. They should have waited for the facts to emerge as the State's Attorney did.

That completely ignored the research. An NPR reporter participated in tests. He discovered he was quickest to draw and fire his weapon on a young black man. More interesting is that NPR reporter is black.

Emotion in a human brain creates that attitude. We can speculate why without facts. Some here will do that. Relevant is why all colors are quicker to assume a black man is a greater threat. That requires research and training. But it demonstrates what racism really is: judgement only on first impressions. Making a decision based in emotions and not on actual facts.

There's an echo in this thread.

That's an easy one based entirely on factual information and the logical processing of that information into useful intelligence. Someday I'll have to explain the process to you in a way that you can understand; but, that's for another thread.

Racism is not posting when one does not know and has nothing to say. What extremist would post anyway?

Awwww, there you go changing the definitions of words again. You do that when someone else has facts that you don't have. You just deny the existence of any facts that you're not aware of. It's one of your challenges. Most moderates don't have that problem; but, whacko moderates do. I'm so sorry.

*Note to self: don't upset tw by inferring future knowledge.*

This study seems destined to have a big impact on social policies at the federal level in the future.

Baltimore is mentioned at several places in this article, at the bottom of the heap across the country.

An Atlas of Upward Mobility Shows Paths Out of Poverty
NY Times - David Leonhardt, Amanda Cox and Claire Cain Miller - MAY 4, 2015

One of the expected changes has to do with giving families with small children
a higher priority on waiting lists for housing in better communities, which
is the exact opposite of the current policy.

This is institutional bias. It has no age.

Imagine how you would feel if instead of killing a black man with no consequences, it was raping his wife with no consequences.

Da white wimmin are in the suburbs, being protected by the cops. ;)

One was random, the other was not. Culture, both at the family level and above, trumps everything. If you have parents who deeply want for their children to succeed, then even small improvements can be utilized by them to good effect. For parents who suck in general, no amount of free stuff is going to make them better parents. The second study doesn't trump the first, it complements and to a certain degree corroborates it.

That 1-day riot got somebody's attention... maybe more than just 1 somebody.

Baltimore asks Justice Department to investigate police practices
Reuters - Ian Simpson - 5/6/15

Why did this request not exist last week? Were they waiting for emotions to cool? Or did not take that long to digest the previous report that indicted six cops?

IMO:
Cooling emotions ? No
Digesting indictment ? No
The request came out of the interplay of laws and politics of city/state/federal systems.

This request to the federal Dept of Justice is from the Mayor of Baltimore.
She had previously (when she first became Mayor) requested the Feds
to do a "collaborative" review of the City's Police Dept. ... before the riot.
... "collaborative" meaning the Mayor and Feds working together.

The Mayor came under fire from the Governor, for not "declaring
an emergency" before "the riot"
The Governor was eager to call up the National Guard, and had set it
in motion well before the first "peaceful" demonstrations.
Due to Maryland's "Home Rule" laws, the Governor could not send
in the National Guard until formally requested by the Mayor.

The Police Dept was keeping their "findings" secret, even from the Mayor)
for the week following "the riot", and then turned them directly over to the State.
I think the Mayor was by-passed in this, but that may just be
my own personal interpretation of events reported in the press.

During that time, the Governor made several public statements
laying the groundwork for removing the Mayor from office.

The indictments of 6 police officers were based on the independent findings
by the State Attorney and State Police investigators which
had been on-going since the day after Freddy Gray's death.

IMO, the Mayor just responded to the State Attorney's indictment of the 6 officers
to request the full investigation of the fed's Dept of Justice.

So basically, the events are a reflection of time-lines at the various levels of government.

This article is almost a hour-by-hour description of what reporters
of the Washington Post learned about the day of the Baltimore riot.

I feel the Mayor Rawlings-Blake comes off as relatively calm and methodical in her preparations,
while the Governor Hogan is seen as impatient and frustrated, and in the end turned to political remarks.

But you should read the entire article for yourself…

In the crucial hours before Guard arrived, a communication breakdown
Washington Post - Paul Schwartzman, Ovetta Wiggins and Cheryl W. Thompson - May 10, 2015

Visit Beautiful Baltimore!!

I have a close connection to Baltimore. Go every two years, have friends in Baltimore fire ... I was there two weeks after the riots. The city is recovering. It was weird and scary seeing places I loved being torn apart.

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