Ok warch, name me a program that only whites can apply to.

A white only scholarship, a white only award, anything alone those lines.

Wow, you totally missed it...oh well. No, I haven't been to Germany, therefore I don't know that culture and that area, just as much as you don't know anything about Cherry Hill or you wouldn't have mentioned anything about gays or looking at someone funny. That's NOT what that neighborhood was about. It was about being black, and not being on the "wrong" side of the street or else you'd get your head bashed in.

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Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.
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Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...


*snickers* Not really. You can fire the black man all you goddamned want to, it's just that the employer doesn't want the lawsuit (and whites can sue just as much as any black person if they feel like they have been discriminated against for ANY reason).


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Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?
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People who share your argument constantly do.



Because it's the only arguement that you seem to have regarding racism against whites. Plus, don't get mad just because the answer isn't what you want to hear.

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Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
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Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?


Your assumption, not mine.

Please...with this modern society sueing each other left and right? SOMEbody's going to give that white person a chance to be heard in court someday and you know this.

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Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.
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LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.



Ooo, It must have felt soooo good to call me that. :rolleyes:

But seriously, blacks not saying "niggah" to each other will NOT stop whites (or others) from calling a black person a nigger, and to believe otherwise is a foolish notion indeed.


We're talking context here, but again, you knew this.

And thanks for allowing me to see what I'm working with..that helps a lot.


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The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
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{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."




Careful: you're paranoia is showing. :haha:

[quote]Originally posted by russotto
quote:Originally posted by ladysycamore
Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal?

And the playing field has ALWAYS been slanted toward whites, so if it is slanted now towards "minorites", why is it such a problem now? I know the answer to that, but I'm curious as to what your answer might be.

quote:
conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.



Say what? If I get turned down for a loan, somebody white will too??? LMAO, okaaayyyy.....

Oh there's plenty of hope for me...that's not up to YOU to decide anyway, so don't worry about it.

The keyword being "was". Thank you for proving my point.

Thats bullshit and you know that. Whites can't sue that they got fired and a black man took their job in order to fill quatas.

No it's the only argument you have somewhat accepted. You ignore all the job realted arguments.


You know that they won't. The black 'minority' is so strong that they'd never let he case be heard. Remember when Street was accused of corruption? What was the excuse? Racists FBI! Nope sorry. There is NO such thing as racism agaisnt whites in the US. According to current politics only blacks are affected by racism.

Nah Ignorant Stubborn Bitch would have felt better.

You still haven't explained why it's so offensive or such a big deal or why it's ok for blacks to use it and not ok for whites.

Define context. I've heard it used by blacks in both ways.

Is it parania? Why are you changing the subject. Did you not imply that I was gay? Did you not imply it in such a way as to say that it was something I was trying to hide or should have been ashamed off?

[quote]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by russotto
quote:Originally posted by ladysycamore
Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Because for 8 years, that school had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER acknowledging black students doing well. And let's face it: this school is in OMAHA, Nebraska, with only 56 black students in it (out of over 1600). You honestly think that if they decide to make an award for all students, that there isn't a chance that a black student would not be overlooked (and some lame ass excuse used for WHY they were overlooked)?

There have always been such things, they just don't CALL it that.

WTF is this shit? Assumptionmatic? Are you MsCleo all of a sudden? You can see all the alternate realities?

I dare say that if the kid had a 4.00 GPA, he'd not be overlooked. Black kids were not overlooked in the schools I went to.

If you said "The kid was overlooked." I'd say yeah...that sucks. We'll have to fix that.

But thats not the case.

By the way, having a black only prize implies that they're inferior to whites and need thier own special little award. Frankly, if I was black, I'd hate that and find it offensive. I don't get "special" grades on my English papers due to it being my 3rd language or because I'm Russian. If I did, I'd be pissed.

Oh and here's the other group who have their own special awards: http://www.funfreepages.com/prize/

Academic Achievment awards are always given out based on just that. They were in Australia, and they were in the highschool that I went to (Radnor HS), and get this, we had 2 awards go to black kids without any special rule existing. They were just damn smart and worked their asses off. Oh yeah and I was fairly good friends with one of them...he helped me out on a few tests..

And they are?

Golf Clubs? Come on...

Damn, FelinesAreFine, I see more than you realize, trust me.

There was/is no need for people who are Caucasian, because they've already been taken care of, if you will. Remember: these programs were put into place why? Because Caucasians thought it would be a good idea to keep "minorities" and women from what they had a right to pursue: jobs, homes, cars, money, schooling, opportunities.

I have every right to express my POV just as you do or anyone else. Never did I threaten/demand/ask/ anyone to subscribe to my POV. Everyone is entitled to what they feel. *shrugs*

My "cause"...LMAO, how quaint.

Another true color moment...brilliant. Thanks. :D

Awright.

Its standard operating procedure for colleges to give preferential enrollment consideration, favoritism if you will, active recruitment, scholarship opportunities to "Legacies" If mom or dad is an allumi, you get the tip. The vast majority of these, for over 100 + years have been lily white. Tilt.

and another example: My mother, through her ladies circle in a small Illinois town, sits on a society committee that give scholarships to students from that social group/ her community. All recipients are lily white and have been for 100+ years. Tilt.

White churches, Kwanis, Knights of Columbus, social orders and organizations, established over a great many years in, ecomonically rooted and based on our history of white patrimony and dedicated to the education and advancement of young people from their communities give thousand of scholarships each year. The vast, vast majority are white. Tilt.

Now you are begrudging the scholarships and "special treatment" doled out at Drexel. Well, I would argue that the investment in the education of those students of color,even if some or several drop out and fail, those that succeed not only enrich your experience, at least broaden it, but they will serve to help establish the community-bases, the legacies needed to offer truly equal educational opportunites. And maybe, eventually your the claim of no favors for the white will ring true. But not today.

No, thank you for proving mine...again, you've never been there so you don't know HOW it is now, however I do.

*snickers* Not really. You can fire the black man all you goddamned want to, it's just that the employer doesn't want the lawsuit (and whites can sue just as much as any black person if they feel like they have been discriminated against for ANY reason).


The fuck they can't! ANYONE can file a lawsuit for just about ANY reason. If they feel they got a case (and especially if they have proof!), you better believe they'll file that suit, in a goddamned heartbeat.


Because it's the only arguement that you seem to have regarding racism against whites. Plus, don't get mad just because the answer isn't what you want to hear.


If that is what you want to believe...*shrugs*

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When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.
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Please...with this modern society sueing each other left and right? SOMEbody's going to give that white person a chance to be heard in court someday and you know this.


Wow, you based that on ONE INCIDENT???? Sheesh....

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Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
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Ooo, It must have felt soooo good to call me that.

But seriously, blacks not saying "niggah" to each other will NOT stop whites (or others) from calling a black person a nigger, and to believe otherwise is a foolish notion indeed.



Whoa, you're battin' a thousand today on those "moments" that I spoke of earlier...

Ok, here's the explaination (which will probably not be "good enough" for you anyway, but you asked, so...)

It's all about context. Historically, when it's been said by whites to blacks, it was done in a way that was evil, nasty, derogatory and insulting...the tone, facial expression and hate behind it was evident. When blacks started using it towards each other in the context of "what up niggah", it's not said in hate. Either that's "right" or "wrong" it's not up to whites to tell blacks to not use it anymore and say "Well, if you guys say it, then we can say it"...it's just not a good idea quite frankly. You weren't here in the States when "Honky" was the word of choice to call "whitey" (back in the seventies). However, if whites called each other that in endearment, you didn't hear blacks crying, "Well, if THEY can use it towards each other, then we can say it to them toooooo". Know why? Because Blacks didn't give a shit about that! (at least THIS black person doesn't). I don't give a fuck WHAT white people call themselves because there are other things that I need to concern myself with.


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The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
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{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."

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Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?
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Careful: you're paranoia is showing.



"Parania"? :confused:

Nope. I implied that you were having a "true color moment", which you seem to have many of. Thanks though...it makes things MUCH more clearer.

Erm...nooooo. It...really has no bearing on this conversation whatsoever, so calm down.

This is so pointless..I'm going to go and jerk off with some alcohol and salt soaked sand paper. It's a lot less painful that this.

From 1993-1995 I worked for Clemens Markets, a family-owned chain of grocery stores. At the time they had a workplace of about 1600 people in 14 grocery stores. The entire organization was run out of a central office where the executives worked. There were about 75 people in the central office. There was not one single non-white in the central office.

There were minorities in the stores, but none as store managers and I don't think I remember a single one as department manager either.

There are some reasonable explanations for this, but the real reason is that they were primarily a bunch of morons and Mennonites who just couldn't deal with it.

Later I learned that the one woman on the executive board had been routinely sexually harrassed 20 years earlier. Although it wasn't clear from the story whether it was partly her idea.

Of course, I'm stereotyping all Mennonites with my comments. I'm disrespecting their minority viewpoint and their culture...

Hrm ok.

Let's say things at the workplace became equal. What would you say contributed to this sudden change of events?

Didn't say that, just what I felt could possibly happen. I said "chance", IIRC.


That's how YOU feel, which should not indicate how EVERYBODY should feel.

Doesn't take much to get you pissed anyway so why blame it on special grades. :p

Just because all this happened in your world doesn't mean it's happening all over. There are things happening in various schools that you have no idea about! I listen to a local radio station that addresses the issues of black children in school all of the time, so I hear about it constantly.

ladysycamore is a fruitcake in her own little world who thinks everyone owes her something because she black.

She thinks Caucasians don't need any special stuff. I guess she thinks that they're the smartest bunch out there. I'm kinda hurt that she would diss us, but hey, she has the right to he own delusions.

She also has a superiority complex. Since she thinks it, the whole black community thinks it. Hate to tell ya, bitch (since you think that name is empowering), but that's not true.

I remember hearing this a short while ago reading about this case (or at least I think it was this case). At the time, I had no idea about the "Legacies". I don't hear anyone saying how unfair THAT is.

And you can bet that any changes to that (especially "race"-wise will probably be met with serious reservations.)

Tilt indeed.

Well said warch.
:)

And my dear, young feline friend, you have the right to your own delusions, and victim complex as well. You should get out more.

I believe this special treatment helped our boy George W. into Yale.

I do get out. And I'm not a perpetual victim.

Not at all. (the hell?!?!) :confused:

LMAO, mm'kay....

What fun! :haha: {ScottiefromStarTrek}"She's Brrrrreakin' up Capt'n."{/ScottiefromStarTrek}

Talk about delusions...baahahahah! Too much!

Apparently, it's all in your head. Thanks for playing. :D

Also, if you want to cry racism, why don't you focus on the Mormons? They have a mentality that having black skin is a mark of evil and you will never enter one of their 7 (yes, seven) heavens. Marrying a black person would get you excommunicated. Talk about one fucked up religion. (gag) Also, have you noticed that all Mormons are Caucasian? I'll never live in Utah.

Actually, Lady Sycamore is an intelligent well-read person who does not think everyone owes her something...and yes, she happens to be black.

Define "special stuff."

She does not have a superiority complex, and is well-aware that many blacks do not agree with her views.

I would strongly recommend that you not post to the Cellar immediately after huffing in the future.

Hot Pastrami, where are you? Please confirm this.

(If that is the case, Vai Sikahema is in a lot of trouble.)

I know! I know!
Here is the story about how civil rights came to Brigham Young University...It was for a love of basketball! from this Mormon info site: URL=http://www.algonet.se/~daba/lds/cdc275.htm (Linkie insertie no workie.)

IF it was a problem for the playing field to be slanted towards whites (and only CERTAIN whites at that ), then it is a problem to be slanted towards minorities.

It does no good to slant the playing field against today's whites to make up for the fact that the playing field was slanted towards people with vaguely the same skin color as their parents.

Thanks Warch...you're always a good egg.

So, it's pretty much what I figured...this does not occur now. And FAF is again guilty of PWH (Posting While High).

"Certain" whites? Please explain.

Ok then. What needs to be done to make the playing field equal?

Its not slanted against. The white opportunities still exist, they are the tradition. (how many white college students and grads do we have in the cellar?) What does affirmative action do? Just ask any first generation black college grad, or native american college grad, or latino grad who is the first of their family to achieve that level of education. It bodes well for positive civic contributions of the next generation. And the next.

Yeah, but she looks like one of them mexicans.:haha:

There are no quotas per se. Numerical quotas for AA are illegal (1978). So are point systems (2003).

HP is in a better position to discuss the LDS than I, but they have a very active missionary program around the world.

Former football player (now sportscaster) Vai Sikahema is a Mormon bishop in the Philadelphia area...he is Tongan, as in Polynesian, as in not Caucasian.

ladysycamore, you are one of the most discriminatory people I've ever met. You are also one of the most racist people I've ever met. Your ideas are far from the norm.

Also, you love to quote people, but have nothing to say that has any substance. You quote whole phrases, sentences and posts just to say a word or two then go on to quote another post from someone else. And then post another back to back! Don't you have any of your own ideas? Your terribly long posts are boring and uninteresting and one tends to pass over them just to read your one single word or two. Please, for the sake of sanity, at least post your own thoughts.

You love to dish it out, but you can't take it in. Same for your alter ego, sycamore.

Sycamore Clan: do you know what I look like? You sure make out like you do. You and I are more kin than you know.

FAF, you are a whiny-ass bitch who has made a claim proven to be false and is now attempting character assassination. I can't help but wonder if maybe you are the racist...at the very least, you're a flamer.

I don't know what you look like and quite frankly, I don't care. Furthermore, I hope to God that we're not kin b/c you would be an embarrassment to me.

Actually, I'm not a racist, because I give everyone a fair chance. I don't believe in giving anyone a head start. By the way you have presented yourself, you have proved to me that you dislike Caucasians because of what happened way before you were ever even thought of. That is racism. You have whined and complained about everyone. Your last post proves even more how much you can't accept anyone countering you. Debate you cannot. I am half black, but I was raised that if you want anything, you must do it for yourself. You have the mentality that everyone owes you something because you are black. That's a real pity, because that condones laziness and stupidity. And that gives the rest of us hard working blacks a bad name. Shame on you! I am not African! I AM AN AMERICAN!

Like I care what I've proven to a troll.

Time for you to do some homework. I've got 3 years and 6500 posts that say otherwise...ask around and go review my posts. You started off well, but then resorted to insults and character assassination, not to mention, you made statements about the Mormons that are blatantly false. You're currently unworthy of a proper debate. Now, if you want to get your act together and properly debate this issue, let me know. I like a good debate.

I'm Native American (as in Cherokee) and Caucasian.

Silly you!

Just because you posted so many times on this site gives you the authority to bully people around? What kind of logic is that? You obviously think Caucasians AND blacks are stupid because you keep quoting me when I already know what I've said. You needn't quote me to talk to me. Redundant, wouldn't you say? All of that could have been said without quoting.

Admit it. You hate me because I'm half white. And because I debate you. And you must hate blacks, too, because you got even more fired up when I said I was half black.

Oh, and I'm native American, too. I was born here.

You started off horribly. You told me in your first post ever to me to not post a welcome message unless I posted to other people 10 times. Without so much as a "Hi! am sycamore and thank you for coming." And yes it was another quote. It was not a warm welcome. It was cold and lifeless.

You stated that I can't accept people countering me and that I cannot debate. I pointed out that my 3 years and 6500 posts would prove you wrong. Not to mention, plenty of Cellarites would also say you're wrong.

I have no authority on the Cellar, other than my own forum. However, we do practice self-policing around here. You just joined 4 days ago, and have already resorted to insulting people and making false statements...keep that up and you'll either be ignored, not taken seriously or called out on it.

Many people on the Cellar use the quote function to reply to particular parts of a person's post, as I am doing now with your last post here. I don't find it redundant at all, as I think it helps posts make more sense and flow better.

What was the last line of my reply to your first post? Do you remember? Let me refresh your memory:

For the most part, it was a joke. Besides...I don't have the power to create that kind of rule, and I don't know if the vBulletin software can even be set up like that. I'm sorry if you didn't get the joke, but if you chose to take it personally, that's your problem.

Like I said, if you want to get your act together and debate AA, I'm all for it. But if you want to keep insulting folks and making ridiculous statements, then piss off.

No alter ego involved...we're two different people. At least half a dozen Cellarites can verify that, as they've met us in person.

Let's look at AA from another perspective...

Everyone is aware that women are also covered under AA, right? So the playing field is "slanted" for them, too. (And FAF said there was nothing for Caucasians...pshaw!) From what I've seen and read, women encounter many of the same obstacles that minorities do. And keep in mind that there are almost 5 million more women in this country than men (2000 US Census).

Those of you opposed to AA, how do you feel about this? Should women-only colleges, high schools and scholarships be eliminated? Should "gender pride" go?

Also, have some of you out there been discriminated against because of your gender?

Discuss.

By "certain whites", I mean that some of those now considered whites were ALSO historically discriminated against.

If you want a level playing field, step one is to stop distorting it.

It's a bias, not a bar. It results in an edge effect. Sure, still lots of opportunity for white people. But, all other things being equal, the white guy who gets 950 on his SATs and a 2.6 average might lose out to the black guy who gets 900 and 2.3 respectively. On the financial side, the black guy might have access to all sorts of scholarships the white guy does not.

Occasionally it does get more blatant, as when companies and/or agencies are ordered to hire ONLY black people or lay off ONLY white people. But usually it's an edge effect.

I still see it as a wash, cause the white guy might have access to all sorts of scholarships the black guy does not.

The bias underlies a tradition of bars that still live. The arguement is really whether or not we've reached a level. In terms of color, dont think so, yet. Its so economically/educationally tied. And AA is just one aid. Hopefully someday though.

I actually do think so in terms of overall populations of women. AA has worked well. I think I read that more women graduate college than men these days. With the help of stuff like title 9, girls are kicking academic and actual butt in HS too. Some careers maybe underrepresented, but perhaps not for long or not because there are continued bars to access.

I have run into a tiny bit of gender, patronizing crap on the job, mostly when I was younger from older men and women. Eh. Nothing lately. There are the ongoing cultural time warp shits, like "why dont you have kids?", being a target of male attack walking at night, "dont be such a bitch" when you are simply stating an assertive request... geeze!

And how does society go about doing this?

I've had a problem with things like this every time I've seen it. This is just ONE example that actually made it to the news that I managed to catch.

So do they have a "Jesse Helms Award" that white kids exclusively can win? Can you imagine the outcry if they did?

Oh Come ON, Rho!! Blacks in America started telling everyone that "I prefer the term African-American, thank you." It became Politically Incorrect to call black folk "black". In fact, I personally witnessed a mexican get beat down because he REFUSED to call a black person "African American". American Blacks wanted to "maintain their cultural identity", and so took the hyphenated name. Then all the rest of the minorites took up the call and decided to hyphenate. Mexican-American, Chinese-American, Japanese-American.

And then, as now, it caused this same argument. We're ALL American, and I've held that view then, as I do now.

I completely agree!! And I think that, again, going back to the post, is that blacks pushed so hard to be "African-American", that now the term is equated with blacks, but now we see a case where a person from Africa, a real "African-American", was denied an award because of his race.

My point here, boiled down to the bottom line is that the IDEA of giving an award to ONLY blacks is racist, whatever you call it, or whatever day you give it on.

If it's for "African-Americans," then the white kid should have been included as a selectee. If it's for black kids only, then call it for what it is: the "Black Kids Only" award. (Which makes my daughter ineligible, cuz she's part white.)

THAT is the problem I have with it. Using your quote of the article as an example, "The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration." that is racist. Bottom line. Shame on that school.

"(insert ethnic background here)-American" was around for quite some time before "African-American."

People say that my roommate "doesn't act black enough". As if his personal taste in music and his speech patterns should be somehow genetically pre-determined.

The line seems pretty clear to me:

skin pigment: nature
culture: nurture

I've even heard people say that Brian doesn't act enough like "his people", as if they get to decide who "his people" are. I'm "his people". His friends are "his people", and our basically geeky, sci-fi and anime watching, roleplaying culture is "his culture". True, he didn't choose us based on skin pigment or eye color or left handedness or some other arbitrary genetic link, but I think he's chosen well.

I'm not sure what about this thread got me thinking about that.

I'm going to reiterate this point so that you folks might have another chance to recognize its brilliance.

In every case I've seen where someone possessed discriminatory thinking and had a change of heart, that change of heart came about after getting to know the people they were discriminating against. <i>Every case</i>. I can only guess that they realize we're not all that different after seeing their commonalities.

This fact could easily be exploited to reduce discriminatory thinking.

But the whole idea of the WB network seems to have backfired, juju ... perhaps if the programming didn't suck, we could learn to all just get along.

Well goddamnit then, that particular black person was incredibly stupid, now weren't they? I'd like to know how that one incident have anything to do with me or any other black person that doesn't make others call us Af/American...

Hyphenation is not new. I'll let Sycamore explain in a later posting.




Hrm...when he was in his homeland, he was known as something else, but once coming here, he's more than happy to be Af/American...interesting. Wonder when he decided to be that...when he left Africa? When he arrived? When some kids decided to put his face on a poster for an award?



Ok, let's say that suddenly all that is put to rest. No more special awards. In fact, just no more awards..everyone is good and special. How does that addresses the issue of racism? I keep hearing "take away this and that" but let's say you do that, the problem still remains and I don't hear anything about resolving THAT.

Apparently, the community didn't have a problem until now, so they must have thought it was ok.

Who says that most insist on being called "African-American"?

Yes, some will be offended if they are not referred to by that term, but based on the literature out there (including that of organizations like the NAACP), it would seem that "black" is still OK to use.

(Rho's stance is as follows: "As long as you don't call me nigger")

Besides, the usage of words changes over time. Would you call a black person a "colored" or a "Negro" today? I suspect not. Maybe one day, white folks will become incredibly offended when the term "white" is used to describe them.

And think about why some folks might prefer the term "African-American" to "black." Think about all the connotations that can come from the words "black" and "white." I can't say I blame any black folk that want to use the term "African-American."

Of course, who the fuck cares what they call themselves anyway...

Some Latinos in the southwestern US referred to themselves as "Spanish-Americans" in the early part of the 20th century, even if they didn't have a drop of Spanish blood in them...because they were ashamed of being Mexican.

Careful Rho, your stereotyping. You have no idea what he was or what he was called in Africa.

Not necessarily. They might not have liked it or thought it was stupid by not wanting to be deemed politically incorrect kept quiet, like so many do today. It was the kids that found a loophole in the rules to say the emperor had no clothes.
Actually we have no way of knowing if these kids were just acting on a technicality as a joke or really wanted to make a statement against what they thought was a bad idea.
Everyone will interpret it to align with there own feelings.

I personally think it was a joke...I don't think any malice was intended. (It sounds like something I would have done in high school.) But why suspend them for it? It could wind up leaving a bitter taste in some folk's mouths.

True, but:

--We don't know the background of this community.
--Silence is golden.