Given that, I would like you to provide an example of a peice of evidence that would be sufficiently convincing so as to lead you to conclude that the theory of evolution is undoubtedly correct. Or, I would like you to indicate that there is nothing under the sun that could lead you to accept the theory.

I honestly don't think God coming down and telling her "Yes, evolution is correct. It's the way I did it. The chapter was too long, lacked punch, and got edited" would convince her.

Wow. Had to skim over most of this. That's as close to a yellin' match as I've seen here. Good show! OC, you're holding your own, don't let em get ya down. Someday we'll have all the answers, either because God tells us, because we all float around in the universal consciousness, or because we cease to exist upon physical death and don't get a chance to find out. Or we turn into rabbits, butterflies, and in rare cases, Buddha.

That last is actually the most depressing to me. Never getting a chance to jump off this friggin ride. Man.

Is the alternative "turn on the peasure center of the brain and veg out for all eternity?"

I've never liked peas, that would be worse. are there other eternal veggies?

No one is trying to "get OC down." Neither is anyone bashing OC for believing in the saving grace of Jesus. So while the persecution card is temptingly convenient (martyrs are never self-proclaimed), it has no application here. Besides, I don't think it spells armageddon when Christians disagree. How many branches of Christianity are there again???

What OC is getting clobbered about isn't her devotion to Jesus, its claiming that anyone with a lick of objectivity who examines all available evidence would quite simply conclude that the earth is but a few thousand years old. And to be clear, she also would have reached that exact conclusion if she had gone her entire life unaware of the Bible or its contents.

I was just kidding, I'm glad I sent UT that picture. Glad, hear me GLAD, Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha :bonk:

bruce - could you look around for the next IOTD...something for everyone.

how about some PETA protesters standing next to a warm grill, with a guy preparing to stab a dog for dinner, and the dog is simultaneously peeing on the evolution chapter of a science book while eating chapters 1-20 of genesis, maybe teddy kennedy could be there trying to tax the dog, and GW could be there planning the invasion of canada...i think that should about cover it. :mg:

That may take a day or so. :eek:

Good GOD! they certainly dont look like dinosaur tracks to me, its all cracked and ruined.. ahh - it must have been that big bang. :)

A question for any long-term dwellars:

Has there ever been such a disparate discussion as this where one party actually conceded to the other person's point? Or has it always been an emotional flaming row like when mother-in-law comes to stay?

Just wanted to know if there was any hope for the open and rational among us, or if we should just shut up, stop wasting time and accept we aren't going to get through to a large segment of the population.

there has been shifting of ground on the past, I've moved around on gun control but I can remember of late. Many of the really good posters like Xugumad & hubris boy left long, long ago & things seem to have become more polarised.

It happens often, it's just not quite that visible.

Quote:
it's not about love thy neighbour it's about trying to stop thy neighbour marrying his same-sex partner or forcing my religion down the throats of thy neighbour's son in public-funded schools or stopping thy neighbour having an abortion.


Unfortunately, that seems to be true in re Christianity lately. Not all of them, mind you, but the ones that do do this are friggin LOUD. Churches and religions should simply stay out of politics. Or be taxed. Now, THAT would go a long way towards paying off the national debt....

Also, I do agree with OC that if one religion is going to be referred to, or taught in schools, they ALL should be. Like I said before, the only difference between religions is the name the Creator is called by, and how the Creator is worshipped.

However, I don't think religion has a place in schools at all. That's what church is for, and that's what parents are for. School is for readin', ritin' and 'rithmatic...and philosophy and science, and recess....


I personally believe in a Creator. And I believe that the Creator decided to create the world through evolution. One big science project. Stir the soup and see what happens. I see no conflict between religion and science...course, I'm one of those crazy Pagans...

I don't think that believing in a Creator is illogical, either, as TS implies. Stating that something does not exist, when you have no proof either way, is illogical. TS says, "I don't know, and you don't either," but what he's really saying is, "Prove the existence to me, otherwise I do not believe in the existence." So in effect, he is saying that he doesn't believe, not that he doesn't know, when in fact he has no proof either way.

I think those Crazy Christians(tm) who say that evolution is bullshit are, whether they know it or not, actually saying that the omnipotent, omnicient god they believe in actually has limits. They are saying that the Creator cannot create the world in the way that the Creator wishes to.

Merely because a story was told to people (who were ignorant of science) way back in the day to explain how we came to be, does not mean that it should be taken literally. It's like telling a story to a child. A child isn't yet able to grasp the mechanics behind the truth, so you tell them a story to illustrate the idea simply.

I think that Evolution should be taught in schools as the theory it is. There is evidence and proof of its existence. As yet, there is no proof of "Creationism" as told of in Genesis. Doesn't mean there isn't a Creator...but Evolution doesn't mean there isn't a Creator, either.


Sidhe

Not unless it's a sane and rational point that hasn't been heard a hundred times before. :headshake

in your phrasing you've pointed to the problem more clearly than you know. if your mind (and mine) isn't somewhat open to the idea thatYOU might be the wrong one, why would you expect anyone else to either?

too often people mistake their beliefs and ideas for themselves. there is a very fine line between believing your ideas to be superior, and believing you are superior. once your self-image is wrapped up in your ideas, admitting your idea might not be superior means you might be somehow inferior.

er, something.

Lots of sense in that post, Lookout.

We all hold our opinions, and we all think we're right...almost as if admitting that there may be other possibilities or opinions (whether we agree with them or not), would somehow diminish us, or something.

And so, in response, I will pledge to try as hard as I can to be more diplomatic in the future, and to make more of an effort to understand opinions that wildly differ from my own.



**Disclaimer: this does not mean I will suddenly become a bleeding-heart, or agree with said opinions; merely that I will make more of an effort to understand where the other person is coming from and WHY they believe so strongly in what they're saying, and I will try to reply in such a way that my differing opinion, if it differs, will not sound like a personal attack.

:grouphug:

Thank you for your support. We now return you to our regular programming...




Sidhe