How she feels is not a function of you. And in terms of what the future holds, how she feels going forward is also not a function of you. I'm not trying to sound clinical but I do think its critical that you grasp the reality that what she does may have nothing to do with what you do. This is the very definition of a failed relationship.

I'm not giving advice but from where I stand, I have a concern that you are letting your guard down and are positioning yourself to be taken advantage of. I'd at least think about going on the offensive - I'm not suggesting that you do only that you consider it.

A marvelous hint someone gave to me at about this point: if some aspect seems too overwhemling to consider, just *don't* consider it. The financial? The offspring? The future lifestyle? The fine details can wait until there's less to think about.

Not to be too trite, but to paraphrase the Graduate.

Three words. Just three words. Divorced soccer moms.

Excellent point! :thumbsup: Considering all the variables, planning details before they come up is just a waste of time and energy. Decide and stick to, principles and values that are important to you and the details will work themselves out.

it is very difficult to operate normally with the 1000 lb elephant in the room. last night was great fun, hanging out, BSing, etc. we woke up and all was wellonlu fun family functions in the morning before church. church was great. we finally get back home and the little one is down for a nap.

she was reading mail and i came up from behind and hugged her tightly. one thing led to another and we ended up having th best sex we've had in quite a while.

she's been more friendly but distant since then. it is a roll of the dice to see what comes tomorrow.

It sounds very crazy making and difficult, Lookout. Sorry she is putting you through this. :(

how can one be bored in a "humdrum" routine when in the last 12 months, we've been to Rocky Point, Mexico 3 times, Flagstaff 3 times, San Diego, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Illinois, Spain, Italy, and France. we've spent 12 days on cruise ships in the last six months. WTF?

Lookout, it's not YOU, it's HER. It's not your lifestyle, it's HER. You two have been all over and done amazing, fun, happy things. If she finds that "humdrum"--oh, my. Clearly, she is not appreciating the fine things life has given to her-yourself included.

"Routine" can be more than just day to day living you know. There can be routine in your kiss, routine in sex, routine in the way you always order cab sav instead of trying local wines, routine in attitudes, routine in television watching habits, routine in one partner always being the one to make coffee in the morning.

not that i'm saying that this may be applicable to you, but it is for me... my partner and i travel a lot too but i too get frusterated in our routine.. even though no 2 weeks are the same, i still get frusterated at his attitudes and his need to eat gormet pizzas no matter where we go, and his inability to refrain from pulling a stupid face in every photo.

But then again.. these things dont make me want to leave him.. just slap him around a bit.

You've told us, have you told him? :cool:

Stop taking her to Flagstaff, Lookout! There's the problem! Even I go to Flagstaff! Oh, and Illinois? PU-LEEZ! Also, New Orleans doesn't count unless you took her there for Katrina.

Lookout, she's grabbing excuses out of the thin air! I still think someone else may be in the picture. Hate to say it, but that's what it smells like to this girl.

Bored? Try spoiled! :eyebrow:

Well, I just want to add my support, lookout. These people have said some very relevant things here. The main thing is that she doesn't know how good she has it, and no one can tell her verbally.

Lookout, you don't know me, but this thread is just heartbreaking, and for what it's worth, my $0.02:

Depressed people hate themselves, and your wife certainly sounds like she's depressed. If you hate yourself, you develop a certain contempt for people who adore you. I suspect this is at least part of what's happening.

Continue with the counselling. But, at the same time, get a lawyer immediately and protect your assets. Refuse to move out. After all, she's the one who wants to be alone. She should be the one living in a cramped apartment, not you. Finally, I'd say you should connect how you treat her to her behavior. Don't be sweet and kind to her when she's feeding you all kinds of bullshit about never loving you or your not making enough money. Get mad; or freeze her out. Be selfish. It might suddenly hit her that, no, she can't count on your unconditional love for all eternity, and that you won't carry a torch for her forever after she's gone.

You go Doc! I feel like I'm in similar boat as you Lookout, only much less. Everyone tells me I should freeze her out, be calm cool and collected. Act aloof. Let her know that she really may not have you if she acts like an asshole. She may have someone else and be too weak and small a person to leave so she's trying to get you to do it. Fuck that! Let her deal with the situation she created. She wants out - let her leave. She wants a divorce - let her go and get it. I am desperately trying to learn the same principles. Cover your ass and your kids, cuz no matter what happens you'll always be Dad and as he grows he'll learn the truth about how this all went down, who cared for him and know who his true "parent" is!

Wecome to the Cellar, Doc Beren. :)
Stick around, you'll find all kinds of interesting people here.

No matter how hard you try there is no logic to this stuff. No tidy cause and effect.
Kid is #1. Kid will always always be your family. Kid needs and loves you. Be your best strong, fair, loving, grownup Dad. Its a huge test.
Like you, the wife is an adult and responsible for her own happiness. You're not to blame for her discontent, she is.
Good luck, guy.

yeah, what warch said.

this really really sucks. for all of you that have your lives crumbling around you. or have had it happen. fuck that. it sucks that people are so selfish. no relationship is gonna be great all the time, and for her to drop out on you like this sucks big. why don't people have the fortitude to stick it out and work through problems? it's not like you're an abusive asshole who she needs to flee to survive. immature, if you ask me. too used to being single. this is like some early midlife crisis BS. i just don't get it. unless you just annoy her? but still.....she friggin married you. how annoying could you be? dude. main thing is....you gotta keep your chin up. don't let this change your self image. you are a succesful man. and good looking enough to get a new dame. it's a fucking shame that your wife is just like Prince's mother.....she's never satisfied......

folks have posted some good advice here for you. like stay in the house. if she wants to leave.....fuck her. go get some strange.

ok. ok. i'm a little buzzed and this has me pissed. you;re a nice guy, lookout. it's not right that you should get shit on by anyone, especially your wife.

i want you to do something for me tonight. wait until she's asleep.....get under the bed.....reach up and punch her in the mouth.....then duck back under the bed before she knows what's going on. play dumb in the morning......she must have hit herself. asshole.

thanks for the words Jim (and everyone else), but i won't be punching her anytime soon.

we have started counseling so we'll see where it goes. I performed a level III gutcheck and came to the conclusion that this woman and this marriage is something worth fighting for. I may be sitting at the keyboard in 4 days/weeks/months/years crying about my failed marriage but i can't focus on the maybe's. if i do, i will eventually be crying about the "what if's". emotionally she is screwed up right now, and that is putting me through the wringer - but the reality is that she just happens to be the most incredible person i've ever met and i absolutely meant it when i said "for better or worse". this is the "worse" part. (hopefully, we haven't been to the better part yet).

I cannot control her actions or decisions. i can control mine. she may still leave me and opt for divorce, but until that time i will love her the best that i can, i will be the best husband that i can, and i will try to push/pull/drag us through this mess. those are my choices and actions that i am in control of. it is my choice to send up the white flag and pack my bags, to be bitter and spiteful, or to continue to love her the only way i know how. if i loved her with all my heart two weeks ago, why should i change who i am and what i do, just because she is confused and depressed?

there have already been - and will be many more - great days and horrible days. i'm in for an emotional roller coaster ride, and i don't know where this one is going to end, but...

wish me luck, -i'm going in.

"For Better or Worse " ,,
Dude you taged it !!!
If she feel right to your gut then FIGHT to keep her ,
ANY WAY YOU HALF TO !!!!!

As many years as you guys have is NOT worth throwing away !!!!

Fight the GOOOD fight !!! ( it is worth the effort )

Take the high ground !!!! ( You are NOT as Petty as the shit she is bringing up!!! )

DON'T play HER game !! ( You are BETTER than THAT !!!!!!)

PROTECT the Young'en !!!!! ANY way you have to!!!!!!!!
She is unstable at this point!!!
You on the other hand are VERRRRRRY stable( good job , good rep , etc,,, ) , fighting the good fight , remaining CALM , being an ADULT . Looking at the BIG picture , What is BEST for the kid , and if the marrige survives all this fucked up stuff , well that is good as well , BUT the kid WILLLLLL be taken care of !!!



Just my call on things .


Best of luck to you ALL !!!!!

Lookout, you are awesome. Your wife is extremely lucky to have a husband who loves her so much. I wish you the best with the counseling, and hope she is able to wake up from what ever she's going through and realize what she's got.

damn, that's a man with his head screwed on right. I hope if i ever end up in a situation like that I think with that level of clarity.

emotional rollercoaster? doesn't even begin to cover it.

my wife was a mature, responsible, loving, well adjusted mid 30's woman a month ago. i can't seem to find her now. mood swings, attitude swings, to the extreme. one moment she is talking about "us" in the context of the future, the next she expresses that she "can't see how we can ever make it work". her musical tastes have suddenly plunged into whiney wannabe mascara wearing crap like papa roach and their whoa-is-me depressed drivel.

it is like i've suddenly woken up with a 17 year old (not in a good way)

anybody see something like this before? isn't the mid-30's a little early for a midlife crisis?

depression seems fairly obvious to me, but what do you do when the depressed person doesn't believe they are? (and yes, i know that people can stop loving each other with being depressed)

Get her to go to a DR , full blood and hormoan levels , etc,,,,,

Sounds weird but she MAY be haveing a reaction to some of the chem at work ????

Lookout, I mentioned it before and I'll say it again. You said she had some substance abuse issues in the past. Her all over the map response sounds like she may be using again. Xanax, a common tranquilizer, can have the effect you describe when a person starts taking too much of it. Tylenol3 and Percocet, the same. Vicodin is nasty stuff, yet its surprising how many doc's will just write out a prescription for it. People with depression will sometimes self medicate with one substance or another. What bottles are in her medicine cabinet or purse?

it was cocaine in the old days. she doesn't have any of her old "tells" so i am fairly certain that is not the issue. the others don't really fit the situation well.

one of her sisters has been diagnosed and prescribed for chemical imbalance issues, the other has the same issues, but undiagnosed. (or so the family whispers) we don't live anywhere near them though, so i don't know what their everyday behavior looks like.

she was so terrified of becoming addicted to anything again that when she had surgery a couple of years ago, she only took the pain killers for the first 24 hours and left the rest of the bottle in the cabinet for more than a year before flushing them. i don't really see drugs being the issue here.

People who use powder cocaine act entirely differently from people on crack. I'm not saying or even guessing that's the case, but it's something to consider.

Is she at all willing to see a doc to discuss the possibility of medication? Nothing from any of the potentially addictive classes, but rather something in an antidepressant? Or has she started taking one and not reacted at all well to it?

Just a thought from a broken hearted guy who was in a similar situation. She may have had an affair and now its over. She is in utter dispair because that relationship is over and cannot live with what shes done to you and your child. She doesn't feel that she deserves you and is trying to be as self destructive as possible so that you leave her. Perhaps he totally used her and she feels like a complete fool. There are a multitude of reasons why she could be acting this way. I'd try to get some of this out in counseling and, if nothing else, start eliminating possibilities till you get to the real issue. Only then can you try to solve it.

wolf - i've seen both crack and coke. this isn't matching up.
the counselor we are seeing is a doc, so if a prescription is suggested and she agrees, it can be done there. she has made somewhat random statements about "not needing pills to be happy" lately. one of our good friends is on prozac to the extreme and doesn't discipline her kids at all, is letting herself go, and is generally just disconnected. she is using that example as an excuse for why meds aren't an option. yes it is just an excuse based off a very poor example, but that is where it stands.

yes - the thought that she was messing around has crossed my mind. i could see her quite easily deciding that all is lost and she is unworthy. "if i was really meant to be married i wouldn't have..." is quite plausible.

I saw a very happy couple go to hell, virtually overnight. After 22 years without a major argument, she developed a chemical imbalance in her very early 40s that made her imposible to live with, work with or deal with. She couldn't get a handle on it and drove everyone, lover, family and even employers, to distraction......and away. :(

Prozac has been given an underservedly bad rap, IMO. At any rate, there are lots of things out there besides Prozac. I have suffered from serious depression all my life, and Prozac was the first medication that ever actually worked for me. I know of the tendecy of a severely depressed person to abuse tranqs and other drugs first hand which is why I brought it up as a possibility. Today I am on a drug called Remeron which evens the playing field for me versus the rest of the world. I don't take xanax to excess these days - in fact I have an unfilled script for it that I keep forgetting to get filled that sits in the pocket of one of my coats. Remeron doesn't make me high, I still demand that my puppy be house trained, and I still continue with my therapy and voc rehab and ticket to work programs. A good doctor will work with your wife and help her find the medication that suits her own brain chemistry best. Your wife doesn't seem to understand that, at this point, she IS just letting herself go, and YOU. too. All she has to lose is her own happiness by not giving brain meds a try if that is, indeed, her problem.

WTF?!?!?! had a great night with the girl that i fell in love with. we crawled into bed feeling optimistic. i wake up with a woman who stared at me like i had three eyes when i told her i loved her. those aren't words heard infrequently around here. how does a person operate like that?

It must be obvious to you that THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR......for anyone.....anytime.
The woman has a problem. She needs help. Be it mental, physical or chemical there's something radically wrong.
Much of this thread has been finding logical solutions for irrational behavior.
Whatever the problem is, it's not you or your lifestyle, it's her.
You've got to get her into medical care even if you have to break her leg to get her there.
Whatever it takes, it's worth it.....she's a keeper...save her. :rtfm:

how exactly do you get someone help when they don't believe they need it - or at least refuse to admit it to anyone else? we've got the headshrinker appointment on the 13th, but if she isn't being honest with herself, what is the likelihood she is going to tell this guy what is really going on. and without an admittance of a problem, she certainly isn't going to sit still and let us cram pills down her throat (if that is what is needed).

Well. Lookout, hopefully, you can pull the shrink aside and give him the benefit of your observations in private. I came across an estimate once that as many as 1/3 of all patients do not report important symptoms to their therapists or physicians. Even if your wife does inform him of everything that's going on with her, she sounds as though she's already digging in her heels at the thought of any medication he might prescribe.

It might be a good idea to find out why she is so adverse to the thought. Does she fear re-newed addiction? Does she consider it a sign of personal failure? Is it wrapped up with some fear of becoming like her sisters? If there is anyone on her side of the family that you could discuss her sisters' issues with, this information could be invaluable for her doctor to know about.

Its true enough that if she does need medication but refuses it, there's precious little you can do about it. Hopefully, the thought of her husband and son will bring her around.

Good luck, big guy!

confusion increasing... frustration mounting...

i am now fairly certain that i'm not grasping at straws to soften the blow to my ego. i can accept that my wife might stop loving me without being crazy.

i cannot accept that her recent behavior is natural/normal/not evidence of mental distress. 2 of her very good friends had their birthday last night, so all of the girls have been planning (for weeks) on going out to celebrate tonight. i drove my wife to the restaurant that they were going to be launching their festivities from.

i should back up to say that last night we had a great night, this morning i was an alien for saying that i loved her. i got home from work today and everything was golden. she was happy and somewhat relaxed. in fact we ended up having a fairly vigorous romp. 45 minutes later she couldn't stand to have me in the same room. anyway...

we are driving to the restaurant and she is seriously on edge. smiling one minute and the next sullen. at times i could see her visibly getting wound up like a top. i missed the turn for the restaurant, delaying her arrival by about 3 minutes. you would have thought i stabbed her mother at a family event. unglued, seriously pissed to the point that she just glared at me as she got out of the vehicle and never looked back.

my sister is there with all the girls and she is aware of the situation(my only secret from my wife is that my sister knows), so she has promised to try to keep an eye on her mental state during the night.

my expectation is that she won't be home before the bars close, cross-eyed, mean drunk. spoiling for a fight. just a guess.

DAMN DUDE !!!!!

Stay STRONG !!!!

It IS worth Fighting for !!!!

Damn, Dude - she's using! Or she has a chemical imbalance. Or...

Thinking over the entire time you've known her, not just this recent upset:

Does she seem to have a higher than average need for reassurance, being told that she's pretty, does a great job, etc.? We all like and need to hear these things, but does she need these affirmations more than many people you know?

Is she bad at making plans for the future and carrying them out from beginning to end?

Did she always have a tendency to become easily bored?

Is she generally supportive and understanding when YOU hit a rough spot. In the past could you always count on her to be there for you, come what may?

Does she talk much about special friends from childhood?

Does she talk about the lessons she learned in this life, saying things like, "I see where I went wrong that time and I have learned from my mistakes." Does she do this in detail, not just generalities?

Does she have a rich inner life that she shares with you?

Does she have difficulty accepting criticism or admitting when she's in the wrong about something?

Does she experience difficulty when she has to be alone?

If any of these questions resonate strongly with you, PM me, and I'll send you a link which might possibly be useful to you.

Wow... just Wow... I just couldn't help but post since my situation seems to have happened around the same time as yours. My wife is early 40's tho...

2 weeks before final exams, my wife exploded... about how maybe "we" should not be "we" anymore. why? That I'm not sure...

My wife also agreed to counseling, but I suspect she's just "going thru the motions" of it, due to some things she's said... maybe like a "cover your ass" thing. We have 2 kids, and she's specifically said to me that when she's leaves, the kids will stay with me, because they'll be better off that way. I don't currently have that deepest fear of losing my kids (yet, she could flip out and go back just as easily as these other flips)

She seems perfectly sane much of the time we're together, but when I go to work, she loses it. She calls me at work and starts talking about leaving me, or she'll be supremely pissed about something petty (like I didn't write down a phone message for her, when I TOLD her about the message instead)

I work in a callcenter overnight, so when we talk while I'm at work, I have to tell her "I gotta call" and hang up, and call her back when I'm done. Tonight this happened, and before I finished the call I was on, she leaves a message on my cell
"While your busy on another call, I'm going to call your mother and tell her I think she's crazy and a whore"
and she did! luckily my brother was there, and she ended up talking to him instead, but WTF??

this is friggin surreal.

@ marichiko
 

Can I get that link? I'm feeling the resonance...

lookout,
I think you need to figure out a way to get her to have some bloodwork done, not so much for the substance abuse angle but more for other hormonal/brain chem issues.

A good starting place to investigate what may be wrong is www.medlineplus.gov. The site has some links to flow charts where you can type in symptoms and the chart directs you to possible causes for your symptoms.

This sounds a lot more serious than an affair/midlife crisis/ or drug use. I'd stop entertaining those theories and rule out the onset of what could be mental illness. Has Wolf weighed in on this thread?

My only experience with sudden unexplainable personality shift came many years ago when I was dating a sweetheart of a girl who suddenly turned into this suspicious paranoid bitch. It precipitated our breakup. About a year later I was reading an article on birth control pills and it described as a possible side effect all the personality changes she had undergone. I realized then that these same changes coincided with her going on the pill. At the time I didn't put two and two together and she didn't see any change in her behaviour or demeanor.

You may have to get someone from her camp into your camp, but as we, and you've, said before: She is worth it.

This may sound extreme and I am not being a smartass here but you could have her committed. I'd look into it first, but sometimes a person who insists that they are fine, when they are not fine, needs someone to step in for them in the decision making arena.

e.g. you'd take her car keys from her if she was obviously wasted even if she swore she wasn't, right?

She may thank you later, she may not ever forgive you. Maybe you need to take that gamble.

Done! Don't mean to be overly mysterious, but since this is all pure conjecture on my part, I figure people may prefer to read it in private. WARNING! I am NOT a real doctor! LOL! Yes, let us hope Wolf weighs in with further suggestions, also. She DOES work in the field which I do not.

Alas, Foot to the third power, it is very hard to have someone committed against their will these days. You must prove that they are a danger to either themselves or others - a physical danger. Doesn't sound like Mrs. L would qualify.

She has to be dangerous, not just wacky.

Please check laws in your own jurisdiction. Some let a doc or cop get the eval done just on the basis of their professional judgment.

The birth control pill idea has merit.

Mari - that BPD info you sent me looks pretty similar to what i am seeing here. i'm no pro so i don't know what that means though. i'll mention it to the doc, but our appointment isn't for two weeks yet and all kinds of bad crap can happen between now and then.

she got home at 2 last night, my sister driving her. apparently, she was going above and beyond trying to get attention from any random guy last night. when she got home she was bitching that she has lost her ability to judge age. i asked why and she says that she thought everybody at the bar was her age, but they were all 22-27. i then pointed out the obvious - most 34 year olds aren't hanging out in cheesy danceclubs until 2 in the morning. she was a little pissed.

she apparently had a blast and says that she needs to go dancing with the girls at least twice a month. uh, no thanks. i want to be married to an adult, not a someone trying to be 21.

Even if I were a Doc, I couldn't diagnose someone at a distance, Lookout. My suggestion is that you google the term and follow the links I gave you. There's lots of info out there on the topic. A great book is "I Hate you Don't Leave me!" You know her best, and if your research convinces you that this might be the difficulty, there ARE things that you can do to deal with her more effectively. Good luck!

the thing with BPD though is that people usually don't become BPD overnight, or, even over a few years. It's a personality disorder which stems from family of origin issues (and maybe a little genetics) and doesn't just happen when someone is in their thirties. It manifests in the early years. I don't think it's BPD. My two cents.

My Own Divorce
 

My X wife, an over-educated under-achiever, after selling everything that I had accumulated over almost 30 years of work told me to go get a job and that I did not need tools or or a car or anything else. And that I was a worthless turd. I played her game for 3 months. Then went back on the road. After several months of happy "singleness", I met the wonderful and incredibly cute Lady Rebecca. After almost 4 years together and me getting very sick being hospitalized many times, and even being homeless for a time, we are still together, and Love each other more every day. It's like waking up every morning with your best friend. :)

Bri, yeah! You're a professional, too! How could I have forgotten? Never mind, don't answer that! Yes, from everything I've been able to learn on the subject, PD's are pretty much an on-going problem. Isn't it true, though, that symptoms can worsen if the person is under stress of some sort, or going through a life change of one type or another? Or am I confused on that point? Anyhow, that's why I asked if Lookout had noticed these things in general before the current spate of difficulties with the Mrs. If these symptoms just popped up last month, its my understanding, too, that they would probably be less likely about a PD and more about some other problem instead.


PS Get outta that bell jar, girl! There's no air in those damn things! Read Mary Oliver, I'm telling ya! ;)

If your wife has not been a random fomenter of chaos throughout your marriage, she did not suddenly wake up one day as a borderline.

Don't obsess over stuff like that.

I DO diagnose people for a living, and I have a better-then-fair ability to do so based on a written description. I decline to do so here because all of the evidence is not in.

Well, since you're here, Wolf, can I ask a question? I'm thinking more of Narcissistic Personality Disordered folks, now - like the hell being I became involved with. At the beginning, there WERE some things off about him. The biggest for sure was his strange story of his bro's murder/suicide out in Cali and his own jail time for the lost key escapade??????

But I have to say that other than that one bizarre tale which I was never able to put all the bits together on until 6 years later, the man seemed VERY normal. In a wierd way.

He'd had a rough childhood, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. He was (is) a gifted musician. When he was "on" he could have won an Oscar for his his three star performances. It took a really long time for me to even begin to comprehend just how badly off the whole thing was.

In my case at least I can blame the fact that I was breathing air with a content of 2% CO when I met him. You could get lots past me back then. His new GF ISN'T being poisoned (that I know of), runs her own business and works part time doing tax returns for H and R Block. She buys the man's story as completely as I did.

My therapist has met the ax murderer and she confirms to me that yep, he's NPD, and most likely a psychopath, as well. My therapist is NOT given to wild eyed pronouncements, by the way. She's one of the most cautious, conservative people I know.

So, in my long winded way, I guess what I am asking is do PD types in general tend to be good at pulling the wool over other people's eyes or is it just the NPD flavor who turn deception into an art form?

Not to derail Lookout's thread, but still almost a year later, I am filled with stunned disbelief of who the man I was with actually turned out to be. :mg:

Damn lookout. I'm not sure what to say. Have you just up and called her out on this nutty behavior? Sometimes the only way to put an end to something is to confront it.

Where/how do you draw the line between "random fomenter of chaos" and someone that's spontaneous, adventurous and easily bored? Someone whos shakes up the status quo frequently?
Not sure I put that clearly, hopefully you'll decipher what I'm trying to ask. :redface:

Incisive.

OK Cellar, today's assignment is to add "Betty Blue" to your netflix queue. We'll reconvene after everyone's seen it.

for extra credit compare "angel baby"

There is fun and amusing chaos, and difficult, hurtful chaos that sometimes even crosses the border into evil.

Once you see it a couple times, you know from then on.

I think I've seen it. I think I married it once. :(

bad bad night. we were with another couple and she got smashed, although she says she barely has a buzz. not too many 122 lb girls can drink 14 beers in a 5 hour period and only be a "little buzzed".

cruel. insulting. provocative. she brought up an incident from 6 years ago that has been long settled. except now she says that i've never told her the truth. she has known exactly what happened since shortly after the event - but apparently has recently decided i'm lying.

my head says to pack up my things and my boy and split. my heart says that i love her and i have to take this as far as possible in trying to help her.

i know i am at a disadvantage being the male, but if i split what are my chances of having my son live with me (and have visits with her)? there is no documented evidence of alcoholism, substance abuse, or anything else major. even if there was, i don't think i would want to drag that type of thing out in court.

Lookout, a 200 pound man who drank that much in that short a period would have a drinking problem. She was averaging almost 3 beers an hour. I could do that myself if I wanted to (I don't), but I sure would be more than a little buzzed if I did and I'd have to go into training for the event. I hate to be a broken record here, but substance abuse of some sort certainly seems to be going on. A gal doesn't develop a capacity like that out of nowhere.

As far as documenting stuff, you just have. Then there was the incident when she went out with the girls. There was another incident before that. You've been documenting her behavior in your posts right here to the Celler. Go back and re-read your own posts.

I don't have the faintest idea what the courts might do. However, you need to ask yourself, do you want your son possibly driving in the car with her when she's under the influence? Do you want him to be subjected to the way she behaves when she's had too much to drink or is using some other substance?

Your love and loyalty for your wife is deeply touching, but I am going to be cruel to be kind. You are describing the behavior of an alcoholic/addict. A person who is using is in love with their drug of choice. Period. Everything else, human beings included, come in a distant second.

An actively using person's behavior mimics that of someone with a personality disorder. Underneath the drug or alcohol, there may be a wonderful caring person. Unfortunately, for that person and everyone close to them, they don't get to be that decent person as long as they continue to use.

If you seperate from your wife and take your son with you, you may actually be doing the kindest, most loving thing possible for your wife. As long as you sign off on her behavior by sticking around and taking it, she'll be able to stay in denial and tell herself that things aren't so bad.

Have you had that appointment with the shrink or therapist yet? You need to be gut level honest when you go in for that and describe all the behaviors you have shared with us here. You may indeed have to bring these things up in court for your son's sake, Lookout.

I wish I could give you a more optimistic opinion, but given everything you have described so far, your wife has some serious issues. If she continues to refuse to address them, your responsibility is to make sure your son is spared the impact of her behaviors as much as possible.

I am so sorry that you have to go through all this.

Seems to me if she wanted to break the marriage she could in a heartbeat. Even tell a bullshit story to the cops and have you removed from the domicile, it happens all the time.
Instead, she's playing head (and heart) games, being obnoxious, grasping at anything she can think of to drive you to walking (running) away thinking it's your fault. It's not
Makes me wonder if she has a plan, just playing it by ear or just irrational?
She hasn't rolled across the room like a hoop or projectile vomited yet, has she? :eyebrow:

I'm still sticking to my depression theory, which brings me to my own experience. My husband wanted me to get help because obviously he could see I had a problem much better than I could. However, because I didn't think I had a problem, getting me to a doctor was about impossible. Finally, some friends also noted that I was a little edgy and moody, and THAT is what it took for me to take notice. Don't ask me why a woman will listen to her friends before her spouse, but it did the trick. I don't beleive he had anything to do with that, because he pretty much didn't like any of my friends at the time :)

Are you close to any of her friends/sisters that you could discuss your wife's current mood swings with? Basically, find out if they are seeing the same things that you are. Maybe encourage them to mention to her what they are seeing. Leaving you and your marriage out of it of course. Maybe hearing that someone else is worried about her will help her see that there might be something wrong. I really am rooting for you, this sucks. I hope your little one is doing OK.

If you split and successfully take the kid with you, your chances are very good. If you split and leave the kid, you're screwed. The courts in general are reluctant to change something unless there's significant reason for it. If your son is already living with you, and she didn't try to call the police about a kidnapping immediately after finding the two of you gone, then she has already shown that she acknowledges you to be an equal if not superior situation for him, and she will have a very hard time getting the courts to actively take him from you to give to her. Just as you will if you leave him behind.