Fathers do have to fight much harder and are damned lucky if they even end up on equal ground with the mother.
My ex got behind on child support for a year, we didn't keep track of it very closely. When our son was 18, the ex had been clean & sober for a while and paying it, along with giving me cash, a car, a washing machine, etc. The the state upped the interest on back support and his balance started climbing about $100 a month in just interest. When I went to DHS to write off the balance and give him credit for everything not on their records, they discovered they had our son's birthdate right everywhere except on the child support order, and the ex was over charged 10 months of support because of the one place they had his birthdate at 10-8-87 instead of 1-8-87, making him 18 ten months later than he was.
How many other men have been overcharged, and with outrageous interest amounts? If I hadn't made arrangements to write his off, that mistake would've not been caught.

And Lookout - I know you're going through a hellish and personal thing here, but it's been a while since we've heard from you. I know others are wondering how you're doing too......drop us a hello when you can...we know you're hanging in there.....

Since I don't have kids, this question is purely academic to me -- is it even possible to work out your own child support arrangements with your ex, instead of having the state dictate it?

And yes, Lookout, do drop us a line if you have a chance. We're all pullin' for you!

Keep taking the high road, lookout. It will pay off for your soul, and if you have a decent lawyer, it will help when the judge decides how much money comes out of your coffers.

I believe it is possible ( in Pa anyway ) and reasonable that this would happen but is rare because of all the nastiness of the divorce process.

From what I know this is the big stick. The state not only has the power to rough the man up, those offices that administer the "service" for the woman and child are most often staffed by bitter women that have gone through very tough circumstances in divorce and are somehow getting justice for themselves and women at large. These positions pay nearly nothing and in the case of back home, you might find bullets flying at you in a very literal way. Regardless, these are power positions for women that have it out for men in some way and see their role as an equalizer.

There is little respect for men caught in this trap (back home anyway ) and they are always presumed to be the evil scum of the earth lying bastards that deserve the fires of hell regardless of the true situation.

For those men with enough means and money to have legal representation BEFORE the net scoops them up, the experience is slightly less humiliating with the blatant attitude that he is the worst sorts of humans on this planet, but the legal manuvers, garnishments and siezures are very difficult to challenge even with a good lawyer.

It's been a while since I have seen a man have the extreme misfortune of having to go through this and I have not myself gone through this. The situation may be completely different now but I seriously doubt it.

Absolutely--the state would rather not deal with you at all, in general. Many states have clauses that say if you want to go back and change something down the line, you must pay to go to mediation first. Their top priority is getting through the overloaded docket as fast as possible. My parents had a completely screwed up, intensely complicated custody arrangement that no judge on earth would have wanted to be involved with, but because they both went before him and said, "We've agreed to do X, Y, and Z and our lawyers have drawn up the paperwork here," he said, "Wonderful, I so order it--next case."

In response to Slang's post about the women staffing those offices, hell, even us women can't hardly get along with them, when we do eventually get through to them (almost impossible by phone), and I can get along with just about anyone! I can't even imagine what the men must go through with them. At least that's the experience we have here with the local child support office. Never thought about what Slang said, but it does ring very true..... Bitter...bitter women!!

And what triggered the state's involvement in my child support was when I applied for assistance with medical bills when my son broke his femur and spent 3 weeks in the hospital, etc. Even with insurance the bills I was left with were high, the hospital encourages you to "fill out these forms to get some of these bills paid", then the state looks to the non-custodial parent for the money....and it goes on...

The salaries of these positions are so low that the only reason that many of these women take these jobs is to financially torture and abuse men, regardless of the circumstances of their case.

You could easily make more at McDonalds than working for CPS. That is....unless you have a grudge.

Was there in inquiry or investigation for possible neglect or abuse on this accident?

This is another of their responsibilities, checking that sort of thing out. Kids dont break bones and get hurt on their own, you know. It's got to be that the parent is abusive or negligent.

These people would be so Fing GONE if I was running the show. It's "for the sake of the children" though and you know what that means.

That means that everyone loses some of their civil rights cloaked behind the seemingly unapposable goal of protecting the children

I dont doubt your eperience or that this happens CF. Do you have any idea how often this happens?

Many of the things that you post here are not what I like to read. That's fine, but I'm seriously wondering Mari....

Have you ever had good luck or fun.....some positive outcome?

If your life is truly as tough and hopeless as you sometimes describe, fine..I'll shut the fuck up and go chase some goats. Is the life of Mari one big long tragedy of one kind or another?

Please tell me...has there been one time that you've made out in this life? Please?

No - 3 wheeler accident. Just a bad break with a lot of bills. (Breaking a femur at 11, when you're still growing can result in one leg outgrowing the other if it's not healed properly.)

Oh, pretty darn rarely, I would guess. Like you said, most people getting divorced can't agree on anything. Even if they start the process with the best intentions, a lot of people can be convinced by friends and lawyers that they're being taken advantage of or need to get nasty to get "what they deserve". Anecdotally, I think perth and case had a mutually-agreed on situation set up for their son, with very little court involvement. It's really the best way to go about it, but not a lot of people can pull it off. Most women aren't capable of freely letting their ex care for the children for any amount of time, even when they openly admit he's a perfectly good parent.

As the resident physiopsycho-sexual therapy recommender in this thread, I just want to say that, with a good lawyer on your side, you'll need to worry *far* less about who you see for a bit of mutually agreeable adult shagging that your ex will need to worry about the whole substance abuse issue. And, if things get nasty, that sort of stuff will come up, but I still say that level headed adult behavior beats being a hopped up single mom any day.

By all means, be discreet, be adult, be mature...but I don't believe you have to be celibate. It isn't like you're going to be putting on a Copenhagen sex show in the tot's playroom, after all. Your mental health (and a healthy sex life, especially in times of stress like this, is a critical component of mental health) is going to be sorely tested during the divorce and subsequent years. (Don't think for a moment that once the divorce is done that your agony with her stops...you have a child together, and whatever *you* think is best for that child is likely to be diametrically opposed to what she thinks, even if she might have thought you right before the divorce).

You're going to need to take care of your self-esteem and your positive self-image in order to be the man you're going to need to be.

Rock on, my brother.

Ah....nice work there Elspode. Been a little busy lately, thanks for bringing us back. :D