Obviously tw has no idea what the purpose of these retention payments were.

Obviously classicman is so driven by left right dichotomy as to blame Barney Franks. classicman needs any excuse to post attacks rather than deal with the topic. But then extremists were never really known to understand anything but a political agenda. Clearly employees that subvert the American economy deserve bonuses when people who work in productive companies do not.

Or maybe we should post as classicman always does. Only someone dumb would not understand that thieve don’t deserve wealth. Rather complicated for one with extremist ethics.

Companies pay retention payments when someone cannot be replaced. That does not exist in those AIG divisions. But Limbaugh forgot to mention that part where the responsible people were fired for being too cautious.

TW: 1

CM: 0

Who cares what you call them?

TGRR and Sugarpop... just wow. Either you are willfully ignorant and choose not to look beyond the soundbyte fluff of the story or you truly do not understand even the first thing about profitability.

I may disagree with TW on nearly everything but he understands something the two of you cannot grasp. Profitable companies make a profit that people want and are willing to pay for. In order to maintain future profitability they must have processes established to make profitability likely. Part of the process is making sure that people who have done their job and have proven to be a net asset (moneymaker) must be compensated for the value they bring. If a broker brings $25,000,000 profit to a firm in a 12 month period it would certainly seem logical compensating him his expected $2,500,000 so that he will also do it next year and the year after. If you don't, they will go across the street, receive a $5,000,000 check, and take their business with them. Giving bonuses to the unproductive employee would be foolish but that isn't how brokerage operations work. Bonuses are based upon production numbers.

But wasn't that $25,000,000 profit all smoke and mirrors... a perceived increase in wealth, along with trillions more, that disappeared in a heartbeat when the wizard was exposed?

Much of that profit was created out of irrational exuberance caused by people believing phony spread sheets and worthless derivatives were creating wealth, when i fact it was setting the worldwide financial web up for a fall... except The Bank of North Dakota.

I understand all of that, CM. There's no need to be a condescending twat.

But I also understand that AIG, etc, are NOT profitable, and they are surviving on the public tit. As such, no "retention payments" are warranted in any case. You want them to have these "retention payments", take up a collection for the poor bastards. They don't need to take it out of my taxes.

Not you nor tw apparently, This common perception of the ill informed is that a "bonus" is based solely on increased revenue or sales.
That is not what these are/were. I am simply trying to be accurate. There are many people who STILL don't know what they are.

Should they stop paying every employees salary because they got tarp money? Should every institution who got money got tarp stop paying their employees because of it?

BTW - regarding the "no longer work for the company" group. Many of them worked for the period of time they were contracted for. Nothing new nor unusual here either. Say I contract you to work for 3 months at $xxx.xx. You also agree to defer payment for a period of time. This was a form of contract work - thats all.
The media and the politicians have you believing that this is some outlandish travesty - It isn't.

If you want to be upset about retention payments, then look at Merrill Lynch. Of the 10 Billion in TARP money they received, They paid out 3 BILLION which is about 30%. That is extreme.

Or just look at Chris Dodd. How can the man in charge of oversight do his job if the companies and corporations that he is supposed to oversee are paying him off? Ironic how he got money from AIG execs and their spouses (all of whom maxed out their contributions to him) Also the Countrywide situation is gonna come back to haunt him.

So, Classicman, tell me...You're happy about your taxes going to some half a million a year failure at ML, MS, and AIG?

At what point did I say that? EVER?

We're talking about the brokers. a.k.a. financial planners, advisors, shiny shoe whores. Brokers gather client assets, build financial plans, and invest according to those plans. They can either charge fees or commissions but not both. Those fees and commissions are what is termed production. If a broker (or team) had $25,000,000 in production but worked as an employee of the firm they would expect to receive the lion's share of that as compensation. If they didn't they would simply go independent and keep 90-95% of that $25,000,000 for themselves and their staff. The firm had damn well better make being an employee an attractive proposition to a guy like that.

Most successful brokers at a firm like that should be producing in the $600K to $2M range. These people make the money so you'd better keep them happy. Just like if you owned a high end trendy restaurant that was THE place to be because the chef is a major draw. Then you realize customers were leaving unhappy because the wait staff sucked. You don't fire the chef because you had a bad wait staff that screwed things up. You get rid of the crap and you do what it takes to keep that chef happy while you fix the rest of the business.

Well, you certainly seem desperate that they get these "retention payments" that would not have been possible in the slightest without the bailout.

Put simply, the only reason for the bailout was to give these bloodsucking bastards their money (and a big FUCK YOU to Bush and Obama).

I fail to see why I - being one of the new owners - am responsible for the foolish decisions made by the crooked fuckstick that used to run the joint. Let them chase him down for their retention bonuses.

LOL capitalism. It's like socialism for rich people.

Not true at all - Be very careful what you ASSUME.

AIG's original creators of that derivatives group got removed because they were not making sufficient profits. Instead they were being responsible. The employees who replaced them, who created the massive losses, and who were then getting bonuses were doing what is too common in financial markets. Promoting profits rather than doing their job. They operated as salesmen - not responsible analyst of risk. Mysteriously, spin says they still deserved bonuses for seeking higher profits rather than responsible contracts.

Your financial advisor is only a salesman. As so many critics note, the advisor rarely - almost never - tells you to get out when it was so obvious in October and November. Their interests do not correspond with clients. Their objective is only their own profits - not the job of serving clients. That is the problem and just another reason why financial markets require heavy regulation.

This ‘greed is good and screw the customer’ mentality works as long as markets go up.

Profits are objectives of the mafia and these finance people. We know mafiosi have no interest serving a customer. But that routine contempt that finance people have for their customers is appalling and is why finance markets can never be deregulated.

Responsible bonuses. Nobody gets them until four to ten years later when the spread sheets actually report an employee’s real achievements. But that is also contrary to myths so popular on Wall Street. Finance people foolishly believe work done this year appear on the spread sheets this year. Nonsense. One need only look at GM whose management (Rick Wagoner) sucked so bad that four years later, Wagoner set new world records for industry losses – even long before anyone heard of AIG. Massive losses even when the auto industry was setting new records for sales.

But Wagoner got big bonuses every year. According to classicman – retention bonuses because he was doing so much good for GM.

Companies that are doing so much better don’t have those big management bonuses. How curious. How to make a more productive company. Less (smaller and fewer) bonuses. Industries where contempt for America is highest also dish out massive and record numbers of bonuses even when they lose money and go running to government for protection.

In AIG, people who would not commit to so many of those risks (and could have averted much of this) were replaced for being responsible and cautious. Such attitudes are heresy on Wall Street this past decade where profits are more important than America.

If you have to bribe your employees to stay, then your company is fucked from the start.