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-   -   A Belief Question (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=12147)

Flint 11-09-2006 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode
The point that is being missed in these rather rational notions is this: True Believers *need* their God to be a conscious entity, one which apparently thinks like a human being, but has awesome super powers - an entity above and apart from The All.

I don't miss that point.

Flint 11-09-2006 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
There's no point in worshiping something that isn't conscious.

To you. That you know of.

Happy Monkey 11-09-2006 03:33 PM

To someone that worships. They are hoping or expecting that their prayer is heard.

Flint 11-09-2006 03:35 PM

That is true only sometimes. Maybe even most of the time, but not %100 of the time.

Happy Monkey 11-09-2006 03:37 PM

The other times, too.

Flint 11-09-2006 03:38 PM

Many people have worshipped non-anthropomorphic things, with none of the specific agenda you describe.

Happy Monkey 11-09-2006 03:45 PM

I don't think so, but I'm all ears.

Flint 11-09-2006 04:06 PM

There are people who worship nature, not as a conscious entity, and not to achieve a desired outcome by communicating with, exerting influence over, or receiving special favors from it. You may not agree with it, or understand it, or be aware of it, but there they are. They do exist.

Happy Monkey 11-09-2006 04:17 PM

I never said they expect or hope anything in return, but if they worship, they expect or hope to be heard. Otherwise it's just therapy.

Flint 11-09-2006 04:22 PM

This boils down to whether the definition of the word "worship" necessarily indicates a communicative act as you've described.
This is clearly your definition, but not the same one that everybody uses. From your persepctive, this is all merely speculation.

DanaC 11-09-2006 04:57 PM

Quote:

This boils down to whether the definition of the word "worship" necessarily indicates a communicative act as you've described
Y'know, you really can deconstruct language to the point where none of it means anything, or all of it means everything.

Elspode 11-09-2006 05:02 PM

Prayer is the conscious focus of energy, based on whatever imagery to which you are attuned. Thus, when one worships, be it Jehovah, rocks, Allah or Britney Spears, that individual is having a personal, energetic interaction with The Universe. IMHO, it is immaterial *what or who* the focus of it is, because it is the individual who is doing all the work.

So, from my point of view (which I grant is not shared by most Western religions), there *is* a reason to worship something which is not necessarily anthropomorphic, or conscious in the classical, human-centric sense.

Happy Monkey 11-09-2006 05:05 PM

The definition of "worship" that doesn't involve communication is the figurative one, like worshipping the almighty dollar.

Happy Monkey 11-09-2006 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode
So, from my point of view (which I grant is not shared by most Western religions), there *is* a reason to worship something which is not necessarily anthropomorphic, or conscious in the classical, human-centric sense.

But in some other sense.

Flint 11-09-2006 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
But in some other sense.

You only disagree with what is in the sense that you mean, but you've been insisting that everything is in this sense.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC
Y'know, you really can deconstruct language to the point where none of it means anything, or all of it means everything.

And you also can't project your definitions on other people and insist that they are using them when they clearly aren't.


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