gah - I can't see it! sunglare issues.

UG understands only parts that agree with his extremist political biases. Meanwhile, spread sheets are reporting events that occurred four and ten years ago. Ford threw out Jacque Nasser in 2000. Therefore Ford is just now reaping the profits created by responsible management installed after 2000.

Someone (UG) with contempt for the American soldier advocated a war with no purpose: Mission Accomplished. Recessions many years later are how such wars are paid for. Including another war we are still fighting because George Jr all but surrendered to the Taliban.

Well, the recession is over. Now we go through a painful period of continued and less job losses. And to pay off mortgages mostly held by China. We are only just beginning to pay for wacko extremism after 2000. 85% is directly traceable to those who created our current economic mess. And now the bills have come due. UG again forget about that part. After all, being a person driven by hate of Muslims, he must also blame Obama. (So dumb as to think Obama is a Muslim. So Nazi like as to hype hate and fear of Islamofacism.)

It is how economics works when one learn from reality - not from political rhetoric. When one is not educated by fools who only incite hate.

The first years of 2000 were some of the most irresponsible fiscal mismanagement this nation has seen since the 1920s. We are now learning what wacko extremism really costs. Only a wacko extremist would forget whose politics created a mess that is just beginning to end.

So how is your reading of Barnett's book. Did you finally get through Chapter 3? I warned you. It was not a Dr Suse book.

According to your logic, One could argue that the Clinton surplus was due to Reagan policies and the Bush issues were actually because of Clinton's decisions. I disagree.

And you would be inventing facts. Some of Reagan's excesses and Desert Storm causes high unemployment (that was not as high as this recession). 8%. By raising taxes and other fiscally responsible activities, Clinton restarted economic growth. But wackos forget how we almost eliminated all debt.

Fortunately for Clinton, George Sr was responsible. George Sr got most of Desert Storm paid for by the world. A resulting economic downturn was mild. 8%. George Sr also did not do harm using fiscal mismanagement, overt lies, and a political agenda. Clinton easily rectified the economy by being responsible. Therefore by 1993, the economy was healthy again. And became better when intelligent people passed laws including the 1996 Federal Communication Act. Only extremists ignore these facts to rewrite history.

What did George Jr do? Anything that Clinton did was called evil. So George Jr even made Bernie Madoff rich. Even promised to rebuild Trent Lott's beachfront house while letting hundreds die in New Orleans. Even refused to prosecute Enron. Invented a Mission Accomplished war to worship Cheney's penis. George Jr openly encouraged spread sheet games that created the worst recession since 1920s. Of course. The most egregious recessions are created by corrupt governments. Corruption that only the dumbest Americans both approve of AND deny the damage was created. Welfare only for the rich - and that was good?

How to print money? Borrow massively from the Brits, Japanese, and even more from the Chinese. Incur massive debts by openly creating mythical capital on Wall Street. Debt that are only beginning to be discovered and must be paid ten plus years from now. Encourage phony wealth even with the largest corruption scandal in America's history - K Street. Lie to the most gullible Americans via Fox News, Limbaugh, and Hannity.

Solutions started by Bernanke, Paulson, Geithner, etc were understood, supported and encouraged by Obama. But more extremist lies must be rectified. One lie is preached by only the dumbest of people - that economic growth is created by tax cuts. Welfare to the richest people who do not create productive jobs. That is good? Those aspiring to be rich - people who did not get George Jr’s government welfare - create the jobs. But the rich, using government welfare, then enrich political extremists. And waste American wealth with glee.

Why has the average American income dropped 2% from 2000 to 2008? Oh. That happened only when George Jr was doing so much 'good'. A 2% drop during the good times - before a recession began. Why do extremists forget these numbers? Intelligence would only create a skin rash or eye strain.

Unemployment is a lagging indicator. Recessions created by corrupt government means unemployment lasts longest - 18 months or longer. Employment numbers should not recover until next summer. More facts that extremist will deny.

Debt was virtually eliminated by Clinton. Then extremists did what extremists do to rape a nation and massacre 4,400 best Americans in Iraq. When in America's history did the average America's wealth drop 2%? And then decrease further with an inevitable recession?

Obama, et al successfully averted what would have otherwise been 20% or 40% unemployment. The George Jr unemployment was successfully limited to a mild 10% - only slightly worse than George Sr's mild 8% recession. We got lucky. George Jr was out before wacko extremism created more damage. And still extremists rewrite history for a political agenda. Just like they rewrote science. Clinton made economic prosperity to happen. George Jr mortgaged America’s future to lie even about Mission Accomplished. Lies that only a wackos extremist could approve of.

HAHAHA - you really didn't get it did you?
lol - thanks for the laugh - I needed one today.

If you are serious, and I sincerely hope you aren't reread my post, this time for comprehension.

We seem to have leveled off at least, and unemployment is the next hurtle as that's always the last to improve. But Europe is in deep shit. They bailed Greece out, but now Ireland is teetering, and if they go down Portugal will also, and likely Spain will follow.

Europe is overall stable. The mostly smaller and fiscally irresponsible PIIGS did money games as MBAs are so often taught. Therefore their people must suffer harshly.

Major powers of Europe were fiscally responsible. Britain, France, Germany, Turkey, and a number of other larger European economic powers will continue to prosper. Albeit at diminished growth rates (especially those participating in the Euro) due to a few states that operated as irresponsible as George Jr.

Unemployment is not a hurtle. Once a recession ends, then unemployment numbers automatically and eventually decrease. How long? Depends on the type of recession. The worst recessions are created by governments and other fiscally irresponsible parties - the bean counters who are so corrupt as to think they create jobs and innovation. Therefore employment does not increase for something less than 2 years after the recession ends. The American recession appears to have ended at the beginning of 2010.

The next hurtle is a decreased American Living standard to pay for those 2000s money games. For example, we have not yet even started to address wealth reaped by inventing mortgaged. The richest took the money. And left the common man with homes worth less than he owes. We must now foreclose for pennies on the dollar that the richest 2% partied on. Pennies tomorrow for dollars 'printed' and played with by government and Wall Street in the 2000s.

Yes, the European PIIGS also will suffer. Major rule changes will be necessary to make Euro nations more accountable. So that books are not manipulated as George Jr also did.

The next hurtle for America is untangling massive debts incurred and not yet apparent on the books. Not just real estate. About $100 billion of military equipment has been trashed in foolish overseas adventures. Science destroyed by the $1 billion per seat Constellation and other science boondoggles. As Alan Simpson, et al note, a Medicaid prescription drug program (thank you George Jr) that has already overburdened and may dwarf other entitlement program. And that keeps prescription drug prices 40% higher.

Any robust recovery that normally occurs after other types of recessions is less likely after this recession. Other problems also must be paid for by sacrificing the American Standards of Living. That is how economics works. It takes revenge four, ten and twenty years after money games create fictious wealth. The common man will pay for the past wealth of Bernie Madoff and other fiscally irresponsible players who were all but encouraged to rape America. What Americans and Europeans pay when their governments and financial establishments screw the nation to enrich the privileged few.

The next hurtle: how diminished will the American Living Standard fall to pay for George Jr's 2000s - including Mission Accomplished. Some of those bills are just starting to appear on spread sheets.

American incomes dropped 2% during George Jr's reign. Will the 2010s see a positive or negative Std of Living? We don't know. We are still learning how much damage was created in the 2000s.

Again the lag factor - which could allow one to argue that the Clinton surplus was due to Reagan policies and the Bush issues were actually because of Clinton's decisions. I disagree, but according to your logic...

So you forget that George Sr was the president. What did George Sr do? Raise taxes. Good things resulted from that balanced budget meaning economic growth during Clinton's watch.

George Sr was president before Clinton. Or did you conveniently forget. George Sr raises taxes making possible economic growth four years later.

Actually I did forget - wee not really, I had him in there and was editing and .... edited him out accidentally. oh well, the principle of the argument is still sound.

As Clinton so often said, "It's the economy stupid." A driving force behind these mid-term elections. Unfortunately too many saw bottom line unemployment numbers. Ignored facts such as the recession has ended. That job losses have been constantly decreasing since the worst losses in Jan 2008. And decreasing job losses will continue maybe until next spring. It is how economics works when economic recovery is strong.

Meanwhile another discussion is ongoing among insider economists. Many view a Japanese economy that suffered these same problems a decade earlier, did not address them forthwith, and have never really seen a robust growth rate since then.

Whereas deficit spending can be used to overcome a liquidity (cash flow) problem. And that is what TARP did so successfully. Deficit spending afterwards is long term harmful. The Japanese continued deficit spending to fix their economy. And therefore were not rewarded with robust growth. That is bean counters doing economic growth. We know bean counter types can harm growth and cannot create growth. They can only make growth possible by acting as bank tellers; by serving all other productive (innovative) people. But bean counters and Wall Street foolishly think they create growth with money games.

Unfortunately economists now argue that deflation must be Japan’s problem. Nonsense. Deflation is a symptom. But economist mind games assume economics can create product innovation. They propose tax cuts, deficit spending, buy American, and even ethanol production. And now even suggest that higher inflation will create economic growth.

With interest rates at a zero (or negative depending on how factors are weighted), many economists are now encouraging inflation to create growth. Latest proposal is to manipulate price increases. As usual, they ignore the only thing that creates economic wealth - innovation. Their reasoning is based in the same myth that low interest rates, tax cuts, and deficit spending creates economic growth.

How did America create growth after those lies were so exposed in the 1970s? Volker forced interest rates to exceed 20%. The resulting reduction in American living standards during Carter’s reign cause economic growth to occur in the second half of Reagan’s first term. It takes that long for actual economic growth to appear on spread sheets. Four to ten years after the actual problem is eliminated. Tax increases to create balanced budgets – not tax cuts – create jobs and wealth. A reality that contradicts widely believed myths. Welcome to Economics 101 with political spin removed (with contempt).

There is no way around the hard solution. Any attempt to use Wall Street spin and money games to create growth means economics takes revenge on everyone else many years later. We let the liars (Bernie Madoff, Lehman Bros, AIG, etc) get rich. Time to pay for their money games, government welfare to the rich, and easy money.

economists are bean counters.

No, they are balloon-pokers.

The economy is one big balloon, and so you poke it here and it pops out there.
Each economist can then be an authority on the best place and how hard to poke.

:)

Accountants are bean counters. Economists analyze what happens once the beans are processed. That makes them fart sniffers.