This whole having or not having kids / relationships thing is pretty interesting. My decision to have kids was powered by biology but steered by reason. I've only met one woman with whom I want to have kids. She fills needs for me. Her warmth and character improve my decidedly moody nature every day. That said marriage is a risk, some folks are unwilling to change themselves in ways that strengthen bonds or put another way people get selfish and change themselves in ways that are destructive of the bonds. Some times people bullshit you with "we grew apart." That growing separate was based on small and big decisions over time. It may seem a natural growth looking back on it but decisions were made. gotta go to work later g

You know, I had this big old long thing ready to post and I suddenly realized that none of it mattered.

If you're so in the now, why does it matter why people decided something before? Shouldn't the relevant question be "what kind of parent are you now?"

Personally, I feel sorry for you and hope one day you learn to live beyond yourself and survival.

Ok Onyx - what else is there? Please tell me, I'd hate it if I was missing something.

You're not "missing" anything if you don't want kids. Some people are built for it, and some aren't (here's the part where I make sure no one gets oversensitive by pointing out that the statement was not implying anything about anyone). Some people just want children, and the reasons are as numerous as there are parents.

I've written replies to this thread trying to explain my drive to be a father several times, and was never happy enough with it to post. I'll try again.

I grew up with a father that wasn't around much. I would see him here and there, and he would throw some money my way and return to the other side of the country. His absence as a father probably taught me more about how to be one than his presence would have. So from early high school age on, I wanted to one day be a dad because I wanted to show him what a good father would be like.

Yeah, my original motivation was to "stick it to the old man".

Years went by and I learned to deal with the anger towards my father. But the drive didn't subside. I still knew I could be a great dad. I knew I could be everything my children needed me to be. I knew that if there was one thing in this world I would be good at, it was fatherhood.

There's more to say, but I'm tired of revisiting this thread and trying to put it into words. Basically, my reasons are as follows, in order:

1. Because I wanted to be a dad.
2. Because I loved my wife and knew that she would find happiness in having a child.

I think onyx was talking about me saying 'all there is is now' etc etc. I was just wondering if she could think of anything else (I'd be genuinely amazed if she can).

So it was your need to be good at something coupled with your desire to correct your father's past mistakes?

Hmm. This happens quite often, and in your case seems to be a true and caring act. A lot of men say it was 'to shut her up' or words to that effect.

Uh, yeah. In large part at least. I'm not going to deny that a great deal of my motivation was selfishness. In fact, I really can't come up with a genuinely unselfish reason, though what I pointed out in number 2 above could arguably be considered unselfish. I guess it really can be this simple sometimes:

Why did I have a kid? Because I wanted one.

Because people reading this thread, that are just starting out, may be wondering if they are aware of all the pros and cons before making that choice. There may be perfectly valid reasons for procreating that the reader hadn't thought of, like to take the place of Social Security in a post Bush world. :lol:

Or paying for ss in a Demoworld? :eek:

I might as well jump in. I had kids because my wife wanted to have kids and there was no way I was going to talk her out of it. I'm not sure I would have ever "been ready" but many guys never reach the "ready" stage.

Now that we have them, I couldn't imagine life without them but as far as the "why" goes, the true answer is because it wasn't up to me.

Yes, it may well be as simple as that. I'm just trying to look a little deeper ie what constitutes our 'I wants' - I think you've said it anyway, you wanted to have a child to make you feel better (re your father/self esteem). By the way perth I'm not criticizing, just fascinated, and thank you for being honest.

Women want children. Men want to sleep with women. Thus the population continues. Perhaps the institution of Relationship has a glitch?

I know you're happy now Beestie, and as you say couldn't imagine life without them, but if you had your time again, would you honestly have children? What else would you do? Do you have any unfulfilled wants?

Yes, I would still have them (if I had it to do all over again) - just not any more of them http://www.cellar.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

I got married at 36 so I pretty much got everything out of my system beforehand so there really isn't any great adventure that I felt like I gave up to get married. Unfulfilled wants? Sure there are but I assume you meant options that are now foreclosed since I'm married with kids. Not really. I feel a little cramped sometimes - nothing I haven't told my wife - but, overall, I'm pretty satisfied with the way things turned out.

One thing I still want to do, though is spend about a month or two on the west coast and work my way up from San Diego to Vancouver. I'd prefer to do it on a Harley but may have to settle for an SUV with child seats.

Getting married later has its advantages. I'm not having a mid-life crisis because I didn't mortgage my youth for my wife and kids. Of course, when my friends who got married early are empty nesters at 45 years old, I may feel a little bogged down by comparison.

Fair dinkum. So the 'feeling a little cramped' is not that important. Doesn't matter if you don't feel thrilled and free every morning, because otherwise things are ok? You can still live an edited version of your dream so there's no problem? I think your idea of the Harley is based on freedom and experimentation, something which marriage and children hasn't destroyed but you were perhaps afraid of, no reluctant to pursue before you got married etc? I'm not sure what I'm getting at here. Just that I know even at 22 there are still things holding me back - be it self-confidence, money, societal perceptions etc. What stops you from being completely happy?

:D

I wouldn't trade my boy for the world, but I do have to honestly admit that he changed things in ways I never could have forseen. Having Jamey closed more doors than it really opened, and it made what little time I have to myself all that much more important. But I do believe he's done as much good for me as I have for him. Having a child is what finally made me realise it was time to grow up.

I have no regrets having a kid, but I think every parent has their "what if?" moments. Knowing what I know now, I would do it again.

For me, there's no such thing as being completely happy. I need a carrot at the end of the stick to keep myself motivated and challenged. As a guy, I need for something to be broken (or not right) so I can have something to focus on fixing (or making right). I will never be 100% happy but don't take that to mean that I'm not happy with my life - it has never been better than it is right now.

Its tempting to take the one small sacrifice I am making as a married father and suggest that I'd be happier if I didn't have a wife and kids but that completely overlooks the missed opportunities and missed rewards of having a family. I've been on both sides of the fence in my 20s and 30s so when I say that "I wouldn't trade my situation now for what I had before having a family" that's an informed comparison.

There will always be things I want but can't have. If I suddenly had them tomorrow, I'd want something else in its place. I think its unrealistic to imagine a state of being that is characterized by "not wanting" or "having everything that one wants." Humans are limited to aspiring to such a state.

The only real question, therefore, is "am I more fulfilled with a family than without" and the answer is an unqualified "with."

Hmm, interesting. Perhaps what most people consider 'unhappy' is actually the 'happiness' we attain to, we're just unable to recognise it at the time. 'I'm not happy because my boyfriend left me' - means 'I'm happy because I have something to fix'. Maybe this is why relationships inevitably go downhill - you reach peak 'happiness', realise this isn't actually happiness, and find something to 'fix'.