The Cellar - Obama's first failed appointment

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- - Obama's first failed appointment (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19164)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux (Post 559911)

People can take it for whatever they want. Its not for me or you to decide.

True dat. But I will continue to point out the over all statistical weakness of a poll.

Quote:

The general public needs to understand the serious weakness of public opinion research in the U.S. Most public opinion polls (including ours) have to call and speak with about 4 people before one person agrees to participate in any survey. Since there is no way of knowing if the refusers have different or the same views as the accepters, there is no valid way to report that a poll really reflects the public viewpoint on anything. When polls report a margin of error (usually 3-5%, though our small sample size generated a statistic of 6-8%) they are, to put it gently, fibbing. What they should be saying is "if the people refusing to be polled were to have similar views to those polled, then the results reflect those of the general population with a margin of error of 3-5%". However, because the answer to the "if" is usually unknown, the actual potential error margin, in simple questioning, both in corporate media polls and in ours, is unknown but definitely larger than reported.

Quote:

``Polls prove that people are stupid,'' said Hal Becker, who headed the Connecticut-based Futures Group, an outfit which specialized in sophisticated polling of the U.S. and other national populations.

``If you want an American to believe something, then all you have to do is get a poll taken that says it is so (and believe me, that is an easy thing to do, if you know how), and then get it publicized. You can tell somebody the Moon is made of green cheese--if the poll numbers say it is so, then the jerk reading them or watching them on the boob tube will believe it. Guaranteed.''

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/polls.htm

Thats cool..but I (and many professionals in a variety of fields) will still look at polls as one tool among many for a snapshot of public opinion ...and understand the limitations.

And you still cant point to any data that top taxpayers are bitching they pay too much.

The bitching is ideological....not income based.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux (Post 559914)

But you still cant point to any data that top taxpayers are bitching they pay too much.

The bitching is ideological....not income based.

Funny, because all we hear from those that pay little or no income tax is that the top earners earn to much and they want some of it. You can look around this forum and see data that supports that. They want it through the redistribution of those collected taxes as greater government spending for programs that support the no earners-payers.

Quote:

While many studies answer the ques*tion of who pays taxes in America, the question of who gets the most government spending is often overlooked. Just as some Americans bear a larger portion of the nation's tax burden than others, some Americans also receive a larger share of the nation's government spending.

This report summarizes the key findings of a comprehensive 2007 Tax Foundation study of federal, state and local taxes and government spending. The results show that when we consider the distribution of government spending as well as taxes, it provides a dramatically altered view of how U.S. fiscal policy affects Americans at different income levels than is apparent from the distribution of tax burdens alone.

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41. Government spending targeted at the lowest-earning 60 percent of U.S. households is larger than what they paid in federal, state and local taxes. In 2004, between $1.03 trillion and $1.53 trillion was redistributed downward from the two highest income quintiles to the three lowest income quintiles through government taxes and spending policy.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux (Post 559914)

Thats cool..but I (and many professionals in a variety of fields) will still look at polls as one tool among many for a snapshot of public opinion ...and understand the limitations.

And most professionals who deal with statistical models on a regular basis, every day and in practice, agree that polls are really quite worthless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 559916)

Funny, because all we hear from those that pay little or no income tax is that the top earners earn to much and they want some of it. You can look around this forum and see data that supports that.

I make a very comfortable living and I dont think I pay too much and would have no complaints about paying more as my income rises.

Ideological.

BTW, many would consider the Tax Foundation to be ideological as well.

My complaint is with the complexity of the current tax code.

Again..there is no data that I have seen anywhere that top taxpayers believe in overwhelming numbers that they pay too much in taxes.

Maybe you should do a poll?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 559916)

My heart is pumping purple piss for them. No, really.

It's funny, because I hear wealthier people say all the time in interviews that they should be paying more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop (Post 560271)

It's funny, because I hear wealthier people say all the time in interviews that they should be paying more.

Wealthier than whom?

Uber 0.1% of the population wealthy or the people in the middle, say 100k - 350k? Because I doubt you will ever hear the later group state that.

Actors, people in entertainment, journalists, Warren Buffet, people like that.

How much does an "actor" make? So you lump "Actors, people in entertainment, journalists" and Warren Buffet in the same group. I don't follow.

Some actors and people in entertainment make boatloads of money, others just make a living.

I'm not claiming that they make nearly as much as Warren Buffet, but they do make a lot, much more than average, and many of them have said they think they should pay more taxes. YOU challenged what I said. I was just giving examples of people I have heard say that. Warran Buffet just happens to be one of them.