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-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Perspective on the US from an expat working in China (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=16076)

Aliantha 12-05-2007 06:39 PM
I think some people in this thread are missing the point completely. This is my perspective as someone totally not biased in any way about the particular subject at hand.

From what I can see, Riddil was talking about the attitude of 'some' Americans and the opportunities that 'some' Americans choose to disregard. From what I can see, Riddil was trying to show that Americans have all the chances in the world and yet don't take them, while people living in repressed cultures are grasping at every straw to make something of themselves. I also see that Riddil is not suggesting the 'all' Americans are like this, nor are 'all' Chinese, just that there are some people who like to cry 'woe is me' when they perhaps should be taking advantage of the fact that they live in a so called, free country.

I don't see any insult there to anyone at all. Only someone seeing that the world he knew is not quite as perfect as he once thought it was.

TheMercenary 12-05-2007 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 413568)
I think some people in this thread are missing the point completely. This is my perspective as someone totally not biased in any way about the particular subject at hand.

From what I can see, Riddil was talking about the attitude of 'some' Americans and the opportunities that 'some' Americans choose to disregard. From what I can see, Riddil was trying to show that Americans have all the chances in the world and yet don't take them, while people living in repressed cultures are grasping at every straw to make something of themselves. I also see that Riddil is not suggesting the 'all' Americans are like this, nor are 'all' Chinese, just that there are some people who like to cry 'woe is me' when they perhaps should be taking advantage of the fact that they live in a so called, free country.

I don't see any insult there to anyone at all. Only someone seeing that the world he knew is not quite as perfect as he once thought it was.
Hey, I respect the view that we could do things better, but do not for one minute try to compare and contrast our societies, that is total bull shit and China will lose on every front. I can show you some hard ass kicking Americans who will put most of the rest of the "western" world to shame. And for every one lazy American I could show your 10,000 Chinese surfs sitting on their asses making lead filled toys to send to the US, because the Brits are certainly not taking them! :D

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=12442199

classicman 12-05-2007 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero (Post 413567)
From, and in contrast and comparison to, China.
I really do not think he was comparing the two at all and even said he was not, at least once in his initial post. He also wrote that he would give his opinion on China in a seperate thread. I thought he very specifically tried NOT to compare one against the other, rather just to give us a perspective of America from "An American not in America." But thats just my take on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddil
"After living in China for the past 1.5 years on a work assignment for my company, I've gained a lot of insight into how the US is perceived abroad, my owns gripes against my homeland, and even opened my eyes to a lot of the misperceptions of China. (I'll save perspective on China for some other post)."

Aliantha 12-05-2007 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 413583)
Hey, I respect the view that we could do things better, but do not for one minute try to compare and contrast our societies, that is total bull shit and China will lose on every front. I can show you some hard ass kicking Americans who will put most of the rest of the "western" world to shame. And for every one lazy American I could show your 10,000 Chinese surfs sitting on their asses making lead filled toys to send to the US, because the Brits are certainly not taking them! :D

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=12442199
There are hardworking and lazy people everywhere. I don't think Americans necessarily have a caviat on that.

It's nice that you love your country so much Merc, but surely you're not blind to the fact that there are some things (in fact many things) that America is not best at.

As for the 10000 Chinese surfs sitting on their asses making lead filled toys, well all I can say to that is, they're earning a living. Better than sitting on their asses collecting welfare.

slang 12-05-2007 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 413358)
..Of course the main answer is a mix of pretty much everything.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. It's much differerent there than in the Phils and China. Very interesting.

Politeness. Wow, I'd forgotten that word since it's not used here. :D

TheMercenary 12-05-2007 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 413590)
There are hardworking and lazy people everywhere. I don't think Americans necessarily have a caviat on that.

It's nice that you love your country so much Merc, but surely you're not blind to the fact that there are some things (in fact many things) that America is not best at.

As for the 10000 Chinese surfs sitting on their asses making lead filled toys, well all I can say to that is, they're earning a living. Better than sitting on their asses collecting welfare.
No doubt, compared to the 100,000 Chinese surfs sitting on their asses collecting absolutely nothing, sure.

Urbane Guerrilla 12-05-2007 10:00 PM
Surfs? Caviat?

Well!

:corn:

Aliantha 12-05-2007 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 413625)
No doubt, compared to the 100,000 Chinese surfs sitting on their asses collecting absolutely nothing, sure.
Do you really believe people in China sit around doing nothing? Are you not aware that the Chinese people are known to be one of, if not the most industrious group of people in the world? Have you never heard anything of the Chinese work ethic?

Cicero 12-06-2007 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddil (Post 412051)

Which brings me to the 2nd point... the lazy, short-sighted nature of Americans. The rest of the world is catching up... FAST. India, Korea, and China is full of people that are motivated to do whatever it takes to get to the top. In college I was a software guy. Like all software guys I looked on with detest as software projects moved from highly skilled American coders to crappy Indian firms that churned out... crap. But that's not the reality for most out-sourcing. The reality now is that jobs being moved overseas are being done as well or better by younger kids that are DRIVEN to get ahead.


The problem is Americans are lazy. They don't want to study hard or work hard. We've built a public education system designed to make no one "feel bad" if they get a low score, so everyone gets A's. In China and Japan, the jocks are the least popular guys in school. If you're the kid that has your name published at the top of the list every year for top score you're the most popular guy in school.

As I interview new engineers in China, I actually have to FIGHT to keep them from trying to work 12+ hours a day. They feel if they don't keep their skills on the cutting edge then they'll fall behind in the industry, and get walked over. And that's the reason why so much R&D isn't done in the US anymore, it's all going overseas. Currently the US has innovation, but how much longer can that keep up as more and more engineering positions move overseas?




- We always preach about "family values", but honestly it's the farthest thing from reality. We're only OK at maintaining the core family, but for most people the extended family isn't anything resembling the tight-knit sense of FAMILY that I see in China.
Hrm... I think that's most of it. I'm sure I've missed a few, but it's good enough. And before anyone tries to yell and scream and tell me to "stay the hell out of America if I hate it so much"....

I will not respond to Classic in this thread.

Classic- Just because you write in a disclaimer straight-away does not mean that you are not going to do something! Even if you end a post with another disclaimer it does not mean that it did not happen.

The quotes above are examples of comparisons of US and China in the first post.

I did not respond to classic in this thread.

See how that works on a very basic level?
:D

classicman 12-06-2007 11:42 AM
Point made. I just interpreted it differently. To simply state that "Americans are short-sighted or lazy or whatever" without any relevance is meaningless. I certainly did not read into it that he preferred China to the US in any way. Again - I'll just step away and let him speak for himself and his posts.

I think I see what your saying.

TheMercenary 12-06-2007 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 413649)
Do you really believe people in China sit around doing nothing? Are you not aware that the Chinese people are known to be one of, if not the most industrious group of people in the world? Have you never heard anything of the Chinese work ethic?
It is not a "Chinese" work ethic, it is an oriental work ethic. There is much poverty in China, much more than in any other country by shear numbers alone, I don't know about the percent. Rural China is very poor. There is not enough work to go around, although I would bet that is a regional thing. I have not been there since the late 80's...

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=16013

ZenGum 12-06-2007 11:50 AM
I was struck by the irony of this.

Here is a paste from Riddil's post about China:
Quote:
- The Chinese people are proud. They feel bad because they KNOW there are problems with China. But no one wants to admit their problems. So as a foreigner it's impossible (and rude) of me to mention most of these things to any Chinese person. Even if they may agree with me, they will fight tooth-and-nail to defend the reputation of their homeland
Now for "Chinese" read "Americans", and consider this thread. ;)

FWIW, I believe (and I interpret Riddil as saying) that the problems in the US are much less bad than those in China. I would certainly like to visit the US, and possibly even live there. I might barely visit China, but from what I've heard, I certainly do not want to live there.

Cicero 12-06-2007 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 413766)
Point made. I just interpreted it differently. To simply state that "Americans are short-sighted or lazy or whatever" without any relevance is meaningless. I certainly did not read into it that he preferred China to the US in any way. Again - I'll just step away and let him speak for himself and his posts.

I think I see what your saying.
What I am saying is, there are comparsions being made there. What is preferred is another topic. I only point this out because you and others are trying to say that China is not the topic and no comparisons are being made, but they are. Riiight there!!! Many times in the first post, and I'm not sure how many other various posts...Maybe he doesn't mean to compare, which seems likely, but he is! Oh jeez.....
:D
BTW- I think you're a good noob so far.

:D

classicman 12-06-2007 01:10 PM
I think I see what your saying. Point made. Again - I'll just step away and let him speak for himself and his posts.

thanks and how's the weather today?:cool:

ZenGum 12-06-2007 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero (Post 413802)
BTW- I think you're a good noob so far.

:D
So why don't you race him to 2,000 posts then?
;)


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