I can't help equating this discussion with the "all Muslims are terrorists" opinion. NOT expressed in this thread of course.

How can people carry on being Muslim when some of their number are murderers? And specifically murderers of other Muslims, innocent bystanders, children, people at worship etc. Completely going against most of what Islam teaches.

How can Catholics stand by the Church when some in the field used their positions to fulfil perverse desires, and some in the hierarchy covered up for them? But then how could anyone stay true to the Catholic faith when priests were preaching IRA support from the pulpits back in the 70s and 80s. Sorry, you know this is my hobby horse. But is abuse worse than murder? Well, maybe. Because the victims have to live with it and the perpetrators are in a position of trust. But political murderers are back on the streets, sanctioned unofficially by the Church and officially released by the Government I live under.

There were Nazis given sanctuary by govts around the world because of the information they had on weaponry. SOME guilty people have always been sheltered by establishments to protect themselves or to gain information.

I don't think anything I'm saying is changing anyone's mind. It's just frustrating to me that someone can equate my parents to paid up members of the KKK. Nowhere in the Church's manifesto is that children should be molested. So the 'rents to pay their tithe. To me this is nothing like them signing up to a brutal, violent cult, determined to deny human status to a whole group of people.

Okay, we're glossing over the whole gay thing here.
Start on that and I'll be willing to express my extreme disapproval of the Catholic faith.
But kiddy fiddlers?
Please try not to think every Catholic is supportive.

I left the Catholic church years ago, before I'd heard of the molestation scandals.

It's just another instance in a long long long line of hypocrisy, in the name of religion. It would be laughable, if it weren't so deeply ingrained and evil.

No, the difference being that the catholic church used it's infrastructure to cover up abuse and allowed it to continue. They maintained a policy of secrecy and helped pedophiles come in contact with more victims, while other churches, like the JW's enacted policies about notifying legal authorities of crimes (not merely "sins") committed.

gotcha, Jinx. point taken.

I still wonder about the others though. I think there will be others to follow.
No matter how this is looked at the people involved should be punished.
Their belief system, IMO, has little to do with it.

Of course there are "men of the cloth" in other religions who are child molestors. Jinx' point, if I am reading correctly, is that the Catholic Church hid it instead of dealing with it (we are taught at a young age about guilt so I guess by that point a little more guilt was nothing.)

It's a bit more difficult to become a priest than it is to become Reverend Schmoe of Unity God of Church of Christ and Hallelujah Cookies: they got those monasteries and celibacies. Reverand Schmoe got ordained over the interwebz. You'd think the Catholic church would do more than take whoever they can get: another point being that in modern times men do not want to have to choose between having a wife and children and being a minister of god's word.

And I had the coolest priest at the elementary school/church I attended as a kid. He was great. As was Sister N, the principal of the school.

No, it's not condoned by all Catholics, but the policy of the church, the powers in that church, has always been to hide and deny. It's about power, it's not about god.

Catholic church - made up of people, some of whom are criminals, sinners, pedophiles, hypocrits, power-mongers.

Catholic religion - based on faith in some sort of Flying Spaghetti Monster immitator.

Two totally different concepts - I don't like either. :fsm:

I think the size of of the Church and its leaders lack of openness make it an easy target for journalists not to mention that anti-Catholicism will sell papers to both small-minded religious bigots and people with legitimate differences with Church policy.

Another problem is the RC Church lacks any real mechanism for bottom up change. They are going through "Parish Revitalization" in this diocese which is Bishop talk for closing churches and making it look like a local decision. I'd say tw's idea of churches as consultants is a fine one but completely misunderstands Catholicism.

Dana's Granddad's story gets right to the root of my problem with the Church. He could love a non-Catholic woman but his God could not. No just God could be party to that sort of death-bed fear mongering so how can the Church be a just God's representative? All this makes the huge assumption that there is a God that is somehow related to some human concept of god.

Hitchens: The Pope is not Above the Law

The other clergy members who stood by and let this happen with only a strongly worded letter are complete accessories, IMO.

The (apparently vast number of) parents who took a payout instead of pressing charges ain't looking so hot, either.

Maybe this will be the first Pope to quit or jump from the pulpit.

I highly doubt it. Why would he step down? He's freaking King of the Church. Lives in a palace. Waited on hand and foot. What does he care if the heathens criticize him?

I'm sure he consulted god before he protected child abusers, and therefore feels completely justified.

He just does that little hand cross in the air thingy, says "domma dis, domma dat, betcha i can beatcha at dominos" or some such latin sounding thing...and all is well again.

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