The Cellar - Why did we go into Iraq?

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- - Why did we go into Iraq? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=8544)

My married conservative Christian Reps 29 year old girlfriend dropped a 911 call on him a while back, is that a flip flop or politics as usual? Seriously, these clowns don't represent any values I hold.

Hey! My cousin is under sec. of defense for transportation. And I know he would never work for an asshole.
But what do I know haven't seen him in about 40 years. This post should stand good in this thread.
Tax breaks will be made law for the rich. Rest of ya, keep shopping at wal-mart. For junk.

So now it's my fault we lost the WoT

A second front on the war. Here are some interesting new disconnects...

Quote:

Bush and his aides have delivered a positive, if carefully calibrated, message. The war is not yet won, they acknowledge, but steady progress is being made. "We can expect more tough fighting in the weeks and months ahead," the president said in his weekly radio address Saturday. "Yet I am confident in the outcome."

Is this another way of saying that "there will be no change for the forseeable future" and "I know what the outcome will be but let's have no discussion on the ideas of how much it will cost, if it's a good idea, when will it end, etc. Just stay the hell on topic, be afraid and keep agreeing with me that I know best, blah blah blah.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHH!!

I find Cheney's departure baffling, however.

Quote:

But last month, Vice President Dick Cheney broke from the administration's "message discipline" and declared that the insurgency was in its "last throes." The White House has been paying a price ever since.

But there's more... So do others.

Quote:

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.), who supported the decision to go to war in Iraq, complained that the White House was "completely disconnected from reality." Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), another supporter of the war, charged that Bush had opened not just a credibility gap, but a "credibility chasm."

I wish.

Quote:

Even Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld distanced himself from the vice president's words. "I didn't use them, and I might not use them," he told the Senate Armed Services Committee last week. Rumsfeld said the insurgency could conceivably "go on for four, eight, 10, 12, 15 years, whatever…. We don't know. It is going to be a problem for the people of Iraq."

See, no end in sight.

Quote:

Historian Robert Dallek, a biographer of President Lyndon B. Johnson and an outspoken critic of Bush, said: "Analogies are imperfect, and I hate to press this one, but this is so much like Vietnam. It has echoes of the Vietnam experience when senators like [Arkansas Democrat J. William] Fulbright began to hammer Johnson on our aims and goals and credibility….

"It's a cumulative process. It takes time. We're not at the full-blown stage on this yet. But it's heading in that direction."

Cheney spokesman Steve Schmidt said the vice president thought the controversy was mostly partisan politics. "He understands that it's natural for political opponents to seize on a statement and try to make political hay of it," Schmidt said.

Waaaah.

Quote:

But other administration officials and Republican elders, who spoke anonymously because they feared retribution from the White House, said the vice president had blundered.

This is interesting. I hope they're outed. Wait. Then they'll be executed. No, it's...it's "extraordinay rendition". Or maybe they'll just go back to work for the military-industrial complex ala P Cooney.

Quote:

"This is like the aircraft carrier," said former Ronald Reagan aide Michael K. Deaver, referring to Bush's announcement of victory in Iraq from the deck of the Abraham Lincoln in 2003. "It simply has given an extended talking point to those people who are opposed to the war and want to make the administration look bad…. I don't think it's a big problem. It's a problem."

This is something you don't hear everyday. One part of this quote says "republican" and the other says "realist". Weird.

From here.

Quote:

Army recruits shortfall blamed on Iraq war critics

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Several Senate Republicans denounced other lawmakers and the news media on Thursday for unfavorable depictions of the Iraq war and the Pentagon urged members of Congress to talk up military service to help ease a recruiting shortfall.

Families are discouraging young men and women from enlisting "because of all the negative media that's out there," Sen. James Inhofe (news, bio, voting record), an Oklahoma Republican, said at a U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee hearing.

Inhofe also said that other senators' criticism of the war contributed to the propaganda of U.S. enemies. He did not name the senators.

So, telling the truth is now un-American? How exactly are we supposed to interpret 1700 dead, ten times more wounded, 500 attacks a week, and an insurgency which has grown from 5,000 to between 16,000 and 20,000?

Quote:

"With the deluge of negative news that we get daily, it's just amazing to me that anybody would want to sign up," said Sen. Pat Roberts (news, bio, voting record), a Kansas Republican.

Facing flagging support for the Iraq war that has killed about 1,750 U.S. forces, President Bush in a speech on Tuesday acknowledged the nation's doubts about the strategy but insisted the operation was worthwhile and portrayed Iraq as a key battlefield against terrorists.

Bush himself made a pitch for military service. "We live in freedom because every generation has produced patriots willing to serve a cause greater than themselves. Those who serve today are taking their rightful place among the greatest generations that have worn our nation's uniform," he said.

Iraq is a 'key battlefield against terrorists' because we made it so. I have no problem with my son being sworn in to 'protect and defend the Constitution'. I just don't want it to be the Iraqi constitution. Maybe we should print up bumper stickers 'Make America Safer - Lie to Your Children'.

Of course I would have no problem with my son emulating the President's example of military service. However, finding a National Guard unit which has a %100 chance of being kept stateside will be difficult in this war. Maybe if I sign him up with an artic warfare unit.

The one advantage of a combination of a democracy and a volunteer draft is that one way or another you get to pick your commander-in-chief and secretary of defense. If I were inclined to sell the military to some teenager, there is no way I could do so with a Bush-Rumsfeld team at the helm.

Hearing these senators say that low enlistment is the media's fault is the dumbest piece of spin I've heard in weeks. Even Fox wouldn't be able to sell it. Maybe these idiots would like us to stop using negative terms. Instead of 'casualties' we can say 'horizontally transitioned servicemembers'. Instead of 'improvised explosive devices' we can say 'loud interruptions'.

If anyone thinks that I or my son have to prove our patriotism by his joining this overseas roadshow, or even engaging in self-deluded fantasies that we have Iraq under control, they can go fuck themselves.

Don't look now but the Army met its recruiting goals for June.

They alway do at graduation time. Usually September when playtime after graduation is over they will too. It's the other 10 months that will prove it will work or it won't. ;)

They lowered their recruiting goals for June, and raised them for July and August. A little bookkeeping trick.