this thread is rife with tangents.

Yaweh is a big smiter. he'll smite the everliving shit outta ya.

to me, that's why religions are bunk. it's so obvious that they are written by man to control man. I think a true religion is purely personal. no two people are the same, so no two religions should be the same.

My take: being spiritual? Good. Being religious? Bad. You don't have to be religious to be spiritual, don't have to be spiritual to be religious.

You're right about the control part. Religions are like the military -- some people need structure, need to be told what to do. I'll stay away from both.

"What wrong can there be in telling a downright good lie for a good cause and the advancement of the Christian Church?" --Martin Luther :right:

If any two people agree on religion, at least one of them is wrong?

could any two people absolutely agree on anything?



er, i mean.....only if they were standing in the woods and there was no woman around to hear them.

Exactly. If any two religions were the same, they would be one religion. ;)

But your point is well taken. As one who was raised Catholic, I was fortunate to have learned from military priests who, on average, were much less dogmatic and much more practical than some of their old-world brethren. I don't think any religion can mean the exact same thing to two different people. Some religions and religious leaders can handle that and some can't.

Just ask the Shia and Sunnis. Yeph. Same religion.

or the catholics and protestants

Or the Steelers and the Dolphins.

But, that doesn't matter here.

I return you to your regular programming, already in progress.

I want just who misrule Islam,,, What do u know abt Islam & prophet Mohammed (PBUH) ,, Our prophet commanded us 2 respect other's religion & don't hurt them, He commanded us 2 respect u christians, we r all ppl & equals, & now how did u rewarded him, u replayed him?!!! don't u feel a shame. how will u feel if one of us muslims draw a sign of ur religion wiz the same way or just draw anyone's parents or even u!! that's y we were upset. not as some said it's near 4rom the true ,,, everyone believe in his religion & ur opinion in others religion don't give u the permission 2 quarrel Islam, Just say:" I belive in christianity"

It's a shame our prophet didn't command people to respect the English language.

Muslima, did you know this thread was over a year old before you posted to it?

Man, back to school in September seems a long way off.

Probably, Muslima learned English by texting. I believe the official language of Kuwait is Arabic. She has obviously an insular view of the world and doesn't comprehend what's really going on, rather than a troll like Duck Duck.

That is true.

My first thought was the cultural differences. We make fun of every religion in the western world and a cultural difference can easily make something like that to be hostile especially with all the problems in the past few years.

Islam is a very misunderstood religion as well. The similiarities between it and Christianity (they worship the same god) are very apparent.

atleast i know how 2 speak english, French.what abt u??
if u opened a british dictionary u'll understand me !!
& if there were a mistake while typing, I wanna say that we aren't all perfect & complete...
if there is a mistake u can ask me 2 correct & translate it 4 u..
atlast it's simply ur problem not mine!

ya if therz a mistak thn u can ask me cuz i spell reel good nd at use good english lik the dictionary.

jst look it up n a british dic. cuz dey spell lyk thiz 2. lolol!!one!!1!1!11one

Muslima, if you want to get respect on this forum or any forum like this you will need to stop using symbols and shortcuts like those. You will start to find out that people will just start ignoring you and will just make a joke of whatever you say.

Precisely. There is no reason at all to resort to txtmsg rebus-speak. We are, after all, using full-size computer screens here.

I'm inclined to think Muslima has that much fluency in English anyway -- note her rebus-chat is both voluble and accurate. This does not address typing skill, though...

thank you Urbane Guerrilla :) , why did you all change the subject? what do you know about Islam, I swear that all what you think about Islam are completly false, if you search in your history you will find that we used to love eachothers, Still here in Kwt & arab countries christians & muslims love eachother & my best friend is christian too.
you can ask anyone lives here in Kwt about muslims.
am not saying that for anything am saying it just to correct your view.

So it is false that Allah will allow everyone who worships a monotheist religion to go to heaven, even if that person is a Christian? ;)

From what I have seen, Islam have been the most misunderstood major religion because of the lack of contact most people have with Islam and only stereotypical actions are exposed to the public in the United States. It is only the extremists that make TV, not moderates.

But you do have to remember cultural differences too Muslima. What is considered to be insulting in Kuwait could very well be considered normal in the west. I think the cartoon shows this very well. While I can see how the cartoon is insulting because it not only shows the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) as a terrorist but stereotypes the whole Islamic population as bloodthirsty suicide bombers which is very far from the truth as most Muslim moderates are just violent as moderate Christians. Though, I doubt the cartoon was meant to be an insult to the Muslim people, but just poking fun at the stereotype itself.

Muslima, pierce raises an interesting point. The whole issue of the cartoons, demonstrated not so much the religious divide as the cultural one. In the west, cartoons and lampoonery of respected and important figures (political and religious) has a long history. It is just something we do.

I think you are falling into the trap of assuming everybody on this board shares a similar opinion on Islam, and has experienced similar levels of exposure to people of that faith. This isn't so.

Whilst I'd be the first to admit that there is a rising tide, amongst some elements of British society, of Islamophobia, for the most part Islam as a faith has been welcomed in Britain. There have been sticky cultural issues to get to grips with, but they have generally been, as I say, cultural, rather than religious. (e.g., the level of covering a woman is expected to use; the level of choice involved in marriage; domestic violence in the guise of 'honour').

These issues have provoked tensions amongst both the non-Islamic and the Islamic parts of our community, but there's a lot of cross cultural communication and we have a large population of British Moslems of varying cultural heritages.

And whose fault is that? Not the TV's... As I have recently posted in other threads, the broadcast media is making an attempt to expose the deafining silence that the Moderate Muslims continue to maintain in the face of their otherwise beautiful religion as it becomes co-opted by extremists.

Muslima, first and foremost Selam Aleykum. I just want you to know that you are not the only Muslim on this board and I am sure if you hang around you will find this forum to be unlike most internet forums, mainly in part to the quality of people you will find here.

I would also like to chime in and say that I am one of the few here who can rightly claim to have visited several predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East (twice).

I found that most people there welcomed me freely, didn't care about my religion and tolerated my attempts to speak Arabic, even correcting me if I butchered the language too badly.

That said, I was also shot at more than once. So, not ALL people there were happy at my presence. I tend to doubt that it was because I drank Coke (owned by a Jew) publicly, as was suggested by a fellow traveler. I think it was more the fact that I am an American, traveling under the Stars and Stripes. They were more interested in my nationality and striking at The Great Satan (their term, not mine).

I do not fault all Muslims for this, only the extremists who encourage this violence in the name of God. To be fair, I also fault extremists of ANY religion who attempt to force their views on others.

If the violence would stop, I would be happy to visit that area again someday. Until the locals step up and stop hiding these thugs, the violence will continue. Do Arabs have shunning like our Mennonites do? Perhaps that will help.

We cannot force people to stop killing each other over there. It is not our job or business. Only THEY can stop it. When the leaders of the affected countries stand up to these radicals and say "NO MORE!"; when they say that Allah is a merciful God and does not condone the murder of innocents in His name, THEN maybe everyone can breathe easier.

How many more bombings of public areas will the citizens there tolerate? Seventeen were killed last night alone. Is a civil war what it takes to end violence? Does violence beget violence? Can't we all just get along? Guess not.

I have no answers, only questions and more questions.

Welcome to the Cellar, stay and enjoy the company...I do. There is lively debate here and many different opinions. Feel free to disagree or agree as suits you but be warned, intolerance is not tolerated. :)

Also, please use proper English as found in either Oxford's or Webster's dictionaries. Text-speak is annoying and hard on the eyes. It is unfortunate that few here can speak Arabic to you and thus there are difficulties in translation from one to the other. We will strive to understand this but you must also understand that words mean things here and some are quick to jump to the wrong conclusions based on what you have said, even if it is not what you meant.

Now it's time for me to get back to work and stop goofing off.

Brian

Must have missed that unless you are talking about the five or so articles that you gave me on the Bush thread. But I didn't see anything about mainstream media on there.

Islam is exactly like christianity unless you are part of one or the other.

Same great message, same thought, same god... same fundamentalist assholes ruining it for everyone.

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14770 first two posts.

Nooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Cardinal Fang. The cushy pillow.

The stupidity of actions justified by religion is that funny. Black humor in red robes.

Really? When did the Christian's rise up, riot, and kill people in the last 20 years because the NY Times ran a cartoon of Jesus in the paper? How about a Jew joke? When did they rise up and chop off someones head because someone made fun of their God? Hmmmmmm....

One, the actions of a few DO NOT represents the views of the majority. Two, I think earlier on this thread they showed that it was only around 1,000 people in the entire world that protested against the cartoons.

Anyways, you can't compare modern Islam to modern Christianity because Christianity has become liberalized. To compare the two you would have to ask what would 13-16th century Christians do? Those are people that attacked Jerusalem just because they felt like they owned it, tried to kill off an entire continent, and the paranoia with the Salem witch trials. The closest you can get is to compare them to the Christians that bomb abortion clinics and protest at soldier’s funerals. Conservative religions never have a good reputation when it comes to violence and you can not single Islam out as violent since both Christianity and Judaism have been very violent in the past.

Off topic.

Exactly--just like I can own slaves, and you can't criticize me for it because America used to have legal slavery in the past.

There was over a thousand in London alone.

I criticize them, I think in both scenarios they are wrong but I am not going to criticize their whole religion or country as naturally violent because of it. If Islam is liberalized than it will be no more violent or peaceful than Christianity just like if your country gets rid of slavery, it will be no more ethically different from our perspective.

Anyways, the Muslims that are violent are a minority in the religion and for the regions that violence is widespread, it is most likely religion.

TheMercenary ,,
what would be your reaction towards who make a joke of your father?!! (we can call it freedom) I think you won't leave him until teaching him a lesson,,
our prophet is more than a father.. if u accept it on your father,, i think we will too!!!

"Thousands of angry Muslims have taken to the streets in Arab capitals, in other Muslim countries and in Europe. "

http://www.voanews.com/english/archi...TOKEN=92160901

"On Friday 500 demonstrators marched from Regent's Park Mosque to the Danish embassy in Knightsbridge to protest at the publication of "blasphemous" cartoons in a Danish newspaper, and subsequently in other countries and on the BBC."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...05/nflag05.xml


"At the root of the problem a dozen of ironic cartoon strips on Mohammad, published in September by Jyllands-Posten. One for example, depicts the prophet wearing a turban form bomb, another shows him telling smoking kamikazes on their arrival among the clouds that "there are no virgins left", an ironic take on the prize that await martyrs in heaven.

Of course in the Islamic world no one has actually seen these cartoons, but accusations launched against the daily by the media and politicians have catalyzed a growing reaction, which has spread to include Norway, given that an Oslo daily has labelled the strip as "blasphemous"."

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=5256&size=

Well, I don't think I would insite riots, burn down buildings, threaten the cartoonist with death, or cause general mayhem... but that's just me.

Nor would I do any of this:

"Beirut (AsiaNews) – Saudi Arabia has recalled its ambassador in Copenhagen, Libya has close its diplomatic offices, in Iraq people blame them for recent bomb attacks against churches there, in Gaza demonstrations were held in front of EU offices, with shots fired in the air; the strong backlash from the Islamic world to a series of cartoons depicting Mohammad, published in a Danish newspaper, unimaginable to most western minds. Burnt flags, political condemnation, and appeals for a boycott are involving even traditionally moderate Islamic nations, like Jordan, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. "

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=5256&size=

Sure you won't because he is just your father not a father of millions, who represent them.

What difference does that make?

Nor would I do any of this as a peace loving {insert fav religion name here}:

Indian Muslim group calls for beheading of writer

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015692.php

"At a convention on the subject of "Pluralism in Islam" which took place in late August, 2004 at the Egyptian Journalists' Union in Cairo, Sheikh Dr. Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood movement and one of the most important religious authorities in Islamist circles, issued a religious legal opinion permitting the abduction and killing of American civilians in Iraq in order to pressure the American army to evacuate its forces."

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...=sd&ID=SP79404

"Unlike some other people I do remember that although Salman Rushdie himself was not killed because of the fatwa against him by the despicable Khomeini, several translators of his book "Satanic Verses" were attacked and the Japanese translator of the book was killed.
Until recently I did not know the exact date he was slaughtered or even his name.

He was murdered on July "

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...e.asp?ID=22940

There really are to many examples to continue...

what makes you sure that muslims did that? why don't you think that special sources who want that to destroy Islam,, or why don't you think that the same special sources bribe cartoonist, to let people forget the trespassing.
actually, those people don't belong to Islam they are muslims by name only & we don't consider them muslims.
my question now, do you all know your religion very well, and do you all obey what god asked you to?!!, do thugs & criminals represent thier religions?? if it was,, i think your country too full of them & i can judge your religion through them!!

We tell jokes about Jesus. They are regarded as jokes in rather poor taste, but not poor enough that we can't tell them.

[Perhaps the pleasantest of these jokes is the one where Jesus is defending the woman taken in adultery, saying, "Let him who is without (this) sin throw the first stone."

A stone flies out of the crowd. Jesus looks to see who threw it and cries out, "Mo-om!!"]

Can you make that free with Muhammed, On Whom Be Peace (and certain of his followers should be following that example and not that of The Old Man of the Mountain), without getting sentenced to stoning?

You're the one who said:
It sounds like you were assuming it was Muslims trying to teach some sort of lesson.

sure i said that but the lesson that we gave it to them was stop dealing with those people,, what i meant by the ques. that if it was your father you'll do more than stop dealing with this person. after this replay please read my last one.

Jesus walks into an inn, hands the innkeeper some nails and says, "Can you put me up for the night?"

Why can't Jesus eat M&M's?
They keep falling through his hands.

===============
Let the rioting begin.

If you don't consider them muslims why do you let them represent you?
Why don't you denounce them?
Why don't you stop them?
Don't you understand we couldn't care less about islam, you could practice your religion and live happily ever after, if you didn't let these thugs and murderers represent you. There is a price to pay for your schadenfreude.

500 demonstrators in London? That's not exactly a groundswell of support amongst our muslim countrymen. I'm pretty sure I could get ten times that amount to march in defense of our right to wear stripey socks. Christ, Mark Thomas managed to get several hundred people to stage several hundred individual, simultaneous protests in parliament square to raise awareness of the laws concerning demonstrations in parliament square. Pretty much any reasonably well attended mosque you care to name could, if need be, get 500 people to go protest in London; as could your average, well attended urban church.

The majority of muslims I've spoken to about that whole cartoon thing expressed offense at the cartoon, but did not support the threats and demonstrations at all. They have a right to be offended. Just as we have a right to give that offense. We really mustn't get too strung out judging a billion and a half muslims worldwide, by the actions of a few thousand souls.

xoxoxoBruce,,
ofcourse you know that Kwt Is an Islamic country.
i swear i swear i swear that the last year there were Extremists living in a bulding beside mine, & i wakeup one day on the voice of shooting.
there were a tank & army soldiers standing infront of our bulding,, you know why?!! to kill those extremists & finally they were killed, why we didn't leave them alive isn't they muslims as you say!!
they aren't muslims they pretend Islam, that's it. they kill innocence people not only from other religions but they kill muslims too. & islam means peace so there is no place for criminals.

That kind of ranting is starting to sound like duck_duck's.

Why do you let invaders into your country??
Why do you let yourself kill eachother???
Why is your country falling apart????
Why don't you stop them?????

If you have an idea how to stop them then state it but to question like that will get nothing done except cause anger.

Are these your stripey socks demonstrators?

Apparently some of your neighboring countries don't feel the same way. As a matter of fact, most of them. Why is that? Are they not muslim countries also? Don't you think the muslim clerics started telling there people to root out the violent element, to rid the community of these butchers? Don't you think that would be more productive, more benefit to muslims, than complaining the west doesn't understand you?

Fuck you. You can kiss this kids ass, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to her bitch about how I'm letting extremists sully her reputation. They're not representing me, they're representing her, so it's on her to stop them if she feels they are not an accurate representation.

People will think ill of you if a dog comes out of your yard and bites people, even if it's not your dog. Fair or not, that's the way it is.

No. They are hard line militant islamists protesting against cartoons. There are, however, very few of them. My colleagues and I used to routinely get a greater number of people to stage ad hoc counter demos whenever the NF were in town. The level of their unpleasantness in no way diminishes the paucity of their numbers.


No they aren't representing her. Unless she voted for them to represent her, they are self appointed spokesmen for their own interpretation of one of the world's major religions. It is not up to her to stop them, anymore than it is up to you, personally, to stop the KKK.

I haven't checked the news; how goeth the rioting?

Have fun storming the castle! :p

The extremists don't represent me as much as Ann Coulter wouldn't represent you. You have to see that the reason most of these Islamic countries in the middle east hate America is not because America is Christian, it's because America keeps fucking with them. Iraq for example, no WMD's but supposedly, GW wanted to liberate the nation of tyrannical ruler. Why not liberate Darfur where MILLIONS are being slaughtered or North Korea, who not only has a tyrannical ruler but also definitely has WMD's, for a fact! Because they're not sitting on a giant oil reserves, that’s why. Remember "bad guys" seldom think they are.

Darfur is also a case of Muslims abusing Christians -- and others.

Government power rests in Khartoum. Hatred has gripped Khartoum. The Darfuri don't have guns, nor helicopter gunships.

Gov't power + hatred + disarmed targets = a genocide.

A genocide means no one will weep if the leadership of Khartoum ends up hanging by their necks from lampposts.

When they start blowing up the tubes, burning churches and kidnapping people to cut their heads off, their numbers are quite sufficient. It doesn't take the whole hive to sting you to death.They say they are representing her, and all she has said it they had just cause.... dripping with schadenfreude.
Vote? Vote on what? She doesn't get to vote on shit when it comes to Islam, nor do I think she'd want to... too thoroughly brainwashed.

We took care of the KKK, they don't cut peoples heads off anymore. Of course it would have been more difficult if they had been running the country. It's about time the muslims cleaned their house.