Threadjack/ Wow, the Vikings learned this in just 6 games - what took Andy 12 YEARS?
speaking of the Eagles Whip, any thoughts on this from the Vikings?
/end threadjack

A change from old to young is a good thing.
It is the proper way to run a team.
The mistake was picking him up in the first place.
The Vikings need to draft high and close up some of the holes they have on both sides of the ball, especially their secondary in D.
If they do this, they should be competing by the 2013-2014 season.

agreed regarding the vikings, but ....

was McNabb always like that? I don't recall ever hearing that from anyone associated with the Eagles, even after he left.

No, McNabb was originally known for his hard work, drills in offseason, etc.

thats what I thought as well. I wonder what changed or when ...

What UT said is accurate.
McNabb played some amazing football while in Philadelphia.
I recall a moment in his career where things changed.
I was watching the game.
He got sick on the field just before the snap (Happened more than once).
He was never the same again.
From that moment on, he never really came to 100% health.
The time comes in a career where you lower the gear.
You play it out and collect some cash on your way and then retire.
When a player is in this mode, it is best for the franchise for you to go elsewhere.

I am so upset that the organization didn't sacrifice last year in order to pick up Cam Newton.
Philadelphia's attack is groomed around Micheal Vick.
There is no comparing the 2 Quarter backs.
If Newton was in Phillie, we'd be looking at the Superbowl straight in the face right about now.
Huge huge mistake for the Eagles not going after this guy.

Is LJ still around?

McNabb had about 4 in-game yacks, some of them during his prime. He took the game very seriously.

Oh LJ went through a name change. He's still here.

I am he

Yes he did... I was taking about that one game 2-3 years ago, mid-season, when Garcia made his first string of games in his place, he's never played a whole game in form since....not a complete game anyways.

Your team is for real.
Dallas should finish 10-6 or 11-5 this season.
The only teams i see that could stand in your way to playing in the Superbowl is Atlanta or San Fransisco.
If it comes to playing one of those two, Your team will have a legitimate shot at winning.
The division is the key bet though right now, as i can't see how your team can lose it.
Even if you lose Sunday night against my Eagles, you'll still win it.
The division win pays 3.25 right now, and it is a certainty.
This is the first time in my life where i'll be cheering for the Cowboys in a Cowboys - Eagles match-up.

Assuming romo stays healthy and doesn't choke in key moments more often than he comes up big. Jerry jones was right when he said that the cowboys go as romo goes.

Romo is a much better quarterback than even the Cowboys fans think.
The perception being fed out about his screw ups, seems to be blinding the fact that he's averaging almost 300 passing yards a game.
Sure, his additional weapons have a lot to do with it, but keep in mind, he's been making these yards against nickel and dimes mostly.
If Rookie DeMarco Murray's 250 rushing yards last week translates to 80-100 yards per game for the rest of the season, defenses that face the Cowboys are not gonna be able to nickel and dime them anymore, which will result in Romo shining even more.
Even if Romo was to be sidelined, i still calculate the cowboys ending the season around 9-7 based on the attack weapons and D.
That would still win them the division.

For those who believe that the Giants are gonna win this division, keep in mind that the Giants remaining schedule consists of traveling to New England San Fransisco, New Orleans, New York Jets, back and fourth with Dallas, in addition to hosting the Green Bay Packers.
So Yeah, the division can't be lost by the Cowboys.

I've heard talk that these three may be the new "triplets" from the old Aikman, Smith and Irvin. Perhaps it is premature, but its good sporting fodder for the pundits.

yeah... thing about that was that the triplets were only the triplets because of the supporting cast. Novacek, Johnston, and that O Line. Now this team has a better tight end in Witten, but the fullback is .. I don't even know his name..... and the O line is improving, but not stellar. The holes Murray was running through last week were pretty impressive. I almost want to scratch that game as an aberration because it was against the Rams... but then, who else has run like that against them this year?

This is jimhelm reporting live from Lincoln Financial Field.

Holy shit, batman. It's shaping up to be a blow out. Dallas can't do anything right. The ball is bouncin the eagles' way. It will take one hell of an effort to dig out of this hole.

Be careful dear. You don't want to be beat up by any Eagles fans, do you?

Wearing my Tony Homo jerzy.... Taking a lot of shit. Grin and bear it.

Would be more likely to have issues if dallas was winning.

Seems like the "dream team" showed up for a game - finally.
Dallas couldn't seem to get anything right.
With the Giants win (5-2) everyone else is at 3-4.
Makes things more interesting anyway.

Dallas Cowboys vs New York Giants

The Cowboys can pretty much secure 1st place in the division, with a win over the Giants on Sunday night football.

If the Giants lose, it'll be their 5th straight loss.
Don't blame Eli Manning, it's not his fault.
He's been brilliant at times.
It's the Defense
(Ranked 28th in the NFL in points allowed)
(Ranked 29th in the NFL in Yards allowed per game)

The Cowboys ?
Well, their attack is well above par, and so is their defense for that matter
(Ranked #3 in the NFC in points allowed)
(Ranked #2 in the NFL in sacks)

The Dallas Cowboys should win this one at home pretty easily.

Hey W.HI.P do you think there is any chance of the Coyboys getting past the Packers in the playoffs at Green Bay?

Is there any team that will beat Green Bay this season,I'm afraid they will be the 2nd team in NFL history to go undefeated 19 - 0.

Its just hard to imagine the damn Packers losing a game this year but I'd love to see dallas knock them off.

They almost lost their last game. Best chance for a loss was probably at the Bears, but since they lost Forte, they'll probably go at least 16-0. Ya never know in the playoffs though...

The Indianapolis Colts have as much of a chance of winning the Superbowl as the Green Bay Packers do this season.
Since the Colts have already been mathematically eliminated, one would find that comment absurd.
However, it is a fact.
The NFL is run entirely by gambling money.
It is for this reason, that the Packers have a 0% chance of winning the Superbowl this season.
Very much like the Patriots a few seasons back up against the Giants.
They would have had to dish out 18 billion dollars on the game alone.
That's a 36 Billion dollar differential.....not counting all the long term bets.
So you see? ...they're not running the NFl to lose money.
They must make a profit, and it is the gambling that provides the profit.
It is the perception of the masses that place the money that guarantee those profits.
The Packers are the guarantee. That is why they have as much chance of winning this years Superbowl as the Colts do this season.
So yes, of course the Packers are gonna lose.

@jimhelm

Over 200 billion dollars are gambled on the NFL annually.
As i said, the sports is entirely run by gambling money.
I have demonstrated in the cellar how this occurs in real time.
I can still see you in a decade from now, still calling it a coincidence, how the masses keep losing.

The last pre-season favorite to win a Superbowl was the 1985 Chicago Bears... what is that? 26 years of the masses losing their money?
Yeah, you're right, its probably just a coincidence.
Hundreds of billions couldn't corrupt a bunch of grown men playing with a ball now could it?

@JimHelm

I wager between $50.000 to $75.000 on long term bets on the NFL each season.
I wager between $2.000 to $4.000 a week during the 17 weeks of the NFL regular season.
In the play-offs, pending on what my long term bets are doing, I wager another $50.000 to $100.000.
I'm not considered a high roller.
There are guys rolling an extra digit or two.

If you honestly believe that this money doesn't come into play, than you're in toot toot land.

But you haven't connected the collections made in Vegas and overseas sports betting to actual events, and every single game is bet on both sides.

To me, it's much more likely that a line is set based on people's expectations, not that a GAME is fixed on that basis.

To fix the outcome in a sport with 90 players, 10 coaches, 60,000 people watching in person and 5 million watching remotely where random events affect almost every play... highly unlikely, and people will be trying to affect the outcome on both sides.

@UT

The money Vegas collects is not worthy of mentioning.
Landbrokes takes the majority of these bets, as they own, or co-own most collectors.
This is a web linked to royalty.
Looking further into it, you'll find major media outlets in the same web, including the NFL network.
Forget the ball players, its all controlled through the top of the franchise's.
The NFL is in the negative and would not exist without the gambling money.

...and yes, it is the expectation that guides the weekly spreads.... not quite so in Thursday, Sunday, or Monday night games, or in the play-offs.
These are the key games to the profits and the majority of them are predetermined.
If they weren't, I probably wouldn't be making the money that I do.
For its is these predetermined games that i build my base for each week, based on opposing the expectations of the masses which are rarely met.
When it comes to the Packers winning the Superbowl, well, the web collecting those billions of dollars, simply can't afford the Green Bay Packers winning the Superbowl, and therefore they won't.

Your success or lack of it doesn't seem to be proof of much

Well sure it does.
I bet against the masses... i bet on the house winning.
The masses lose, the house wins, there is no coincidence.

I just don't get how the gambling money funds the league. Seems like there would be some kind of paper trail if that were true.

One of us is definitely in toot toot land. when 2 people are on an elevator, and one of them farts... they both know who did it.

and if it was just who wins what games... like the packers winning the super bowl, why would there be a point spread.

your argument is invalid

Just so you all get a better picture of the facts, I'll give them to you.
The 3 preseason favorites and the result

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

2006-2007
1)Pittsburgh Steelers
2)Denver Broncos
3)Dallas Cowboys

The Indianapolis Colts won the Superbowl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

2007-2008
1)New England Patriots
2)Indianapolis Colts
3)Chicago Bears

The New York Giants won the Superbowl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

2008-2009
1)New England Patriots
2)Indianapolis Colts
3)San Diego Chargers

The Pittsburgh Steelers won the Superbowl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

2009-2010
1)New England Patriots
2)Pittsburgh Steelers
3)New York giants

The New Orleans Saints won the Superbowl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

2010-2011
1)New Orleans Saints
2)Indianapolis Colts
3)Baltimore Ravens

The Green Bay Packers won the Superbowl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

2011 -2012
1)Green Bay Packers
2)New England Patriots
3)Philadelphia Eagles

The ____________ Won the Superbowl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

This pattern goes all the way back to 1985.

If you could go back in time, all you'd really have to do every year, is exclude the top 3 favorites every season, and you'd have a chance.

But so what? If trends ruled betting you'd be rich, but they don't, because you can always find trends.

In Heads vs Tails you can find trends.

Well almost everyone has a head, but approx 50% are no-tails....

So lets get this straight....
The guys collecting the money, are the same guys that run the media that tells everyone what to bet one.
They create the most lop-sided perceptions possible, which results in
humans, sheep-like as they are, betting on whatever they tell them to bet on, and they end up losing their money.

Show me a major event, where loads of money was gambled, where the house lost and the masses won.
It doesn't happen!
It can't always be a coincidence, can it?
How long are you guys gonna keep believing that?

Try betting against the masses in the next major gambling match-up.
I'm trying to help you guys make a little bit of money.
Take it... its free

Or is it like, I'm ruining it for you.
You enjoy watching football, and you want it to be fair, and even if it isn't, you'd rather not know about it.

Well alls I know is that W.HI.P does seem like he knows what he is talking about,to me even if the games are fixed I still can't help getting into the games,better than WWF any day haha.

Now if the Packers lose the Super Bowl,or a playoff game W.HI.P's name will pop up with a finger waving "I told ya' so" lol.

um go texans?

they're hurt bad. but are conforming to their plight. defense defense defense. wade phillips sucks as a head coach but he sure as hell knows how to run a defense!

back on track though, if betting is your thing shit i'm not stopping you and sure as hell no one else is here either. go bet. have fun! spreads to me are driven by the IR list. not a good example but go watch errr tolerate "the last boy scout"

oh. i almost forgot. FUCK the cowboys.

No bet of mine has a greater return this season than the Houston Texans.
I got them winning their division, making the AFC Final, Winning the AFC Final, and Winning the Suberbowl.
I actually made an error when making the bets on the Texans, which lead to me having more money on them than i had originally planned.
The reason for the bet was their OL and DL.
I only found out the Texans were a 2 headed running machine after the season started.
The Texans have a legitimate chance of going far this year, as their lines are superior, and they completely control the clock.
Their defense is so good, cause their offense allows them to rest.
Not to mention, they can score.
Which team in the AFC can knock them out?
Perhaps the Oakland Raiders should Darren McFadden return 100% by the play-offs.
That's another team i wagered on at high odds.
From the NFC, I've got the Cowboys and the Falcons.
All 4 teams seem to be play-off material.

The only two teams I'm afraid of this season, that I haven't wagered on, are the Baltimore Ravens from the AFC, and the San Fransisco 49ers from the NFC.
Both teams have elite defense's.

We've done this here before, I have no pride... I only wish to share.

The Packers won't win the Superbowl, and yet, no one will really see anything.
They'll then have a mind set that the team that wins the 2011-2012 Superbowl has a chance to repeat in 2012-2013.
Sheep.

I don't think you are an honest person

Everyone assumes the winner will repeat and they rarely do.

Except that it did happen going back to 1985, in 1989, 1993, and 2004.

I don't think you are dishonest WHIP but I know you're dishonest with yourself.

You say bet on the house side, but you don't know which side the house is on. And neither does the house, until they set the lines.

To imagine the NFL is controlled is ridiculous on its face. It's conspiracy theory, and conspiracy theory is the realm of the unwise. We know it's conspiracy theory because we ask you to connect the facts and you fail to do so. Your unconvincing argument "how could it not be?" is the same fodder offered up by people who believe we never landed on the moon. You can't make the connection, so you only offer up more theory.

This is incorrect thinking, and to continue with this attitude and have losing seasons like you have had is foolish.

You will be wiser when you have failed hard and are forced to take a long hard look at your situation, and will come to the conclusion that the outcomes looked like conspiracy but could happen all along without conspiracy.

Favorites don't repeat... so what! It means the league has parity, a high degree of randomness, and winning players that become free agents make it harder to achieve long-term success at the highest level. The public thinks favorites will repeat... so what! This is an instinct you can take advantage of in the lines, but it doesn't prove, in any way, that it's conspiracy.

The Packers, the Patriots, and the Eagles will not win the superbowl, for they are the pre-season favorites.
Next season, the same things gonna happen, and the next, and the next.
At what point will you start disregarding the top 3 favorites and look on to the real contenders...... and make some money doing it.
You are aware that the 3 favorites have a smaller price than everyone else right?
If there was a horse race, and you knew before hand that the top 3 favorites were not gonna win, you'd be making some serious money.
I'm making some serious money, join me.

Yes but what you have determined is the nature of the game as it has evolved, not some super-secret conspiracy to control outcomes.

More likely, free agency and losing the top draft picks make it harder for the top 10% of teams to remain elite. You know that. You point that out year after year: NFL success requires a round of poor seasons to accumulate quality in the draft.

[/quote]
HaHaHa....

I think that this will change this year W.HI.P ,I don't know man,I don't care for them but the Green Bay Packers are so good right now,the last 3 games are : At Kansas City which is an easy win,then Chicago at Green Bay and Detroit at Green Bay which will easily give them 16-0 easily.

Then they have a first round bye,then 2 playoff games at Green Bay which they will easily win those 2 games and then they will beat any AFC team in the Super Bowl.

I have to say I really think that they will repeat this year....maybe all the gambling money wants the pckers to win,not lose...thats why they are unbeatable this year?

.. or they're a very talented, well-coached team, which has avoided a critical injury.

The Packers look about as unbeatable as the Patriots looked a few years back.. they called them "The greatest team of all time.

It reminds of that con that they used to fool people with on the street, where a guy with a stand has 3 cards facing down, 1 of them is a queen, they show it to you, then shuffle them around, and you chose which one's the queen.
The fact is, when you chose, there is no queen down there.
Its a suckers game.
Those Patriots and these Packers are the queens.
...but go ahead, play.

so, if you're so sure that the Packers won't win the Super Bowl....

would you agree to have your account log in changed to M.US.H. if they do win it this year?

If you change your name to "Listen to W.HI.P" when they don't, then we've got a deal.

I'm not the one making the claims and guarantees here, bub.

@jimhelm
Pussy.

so, I'm a pussy because I wont bet you even up on odds that are 12 to one against me....and 1 to twelve in your favor about something you are so sure of?

Got it.

What are you on about?
The odds are at exactly 2.35 decimal at this moment in time.
Its a fair bet.
Where the hell did you get 12.00?

I found this part of your post funny:
The house is on the side where the money isn't.

I mentioned earlier that the majority of fixes between week 1 and 17 are on Thursday, Sunday, and sometimes, Monday night games.
These are games that are on when no other games are on.
These are the games that are wagered on more than the others.
These are the games where the spread is made to influence lop-sided betting.
You always find the Media concentrating on these games, and ex NFL players all agreeing with each other on who's gonna win, influencing where the money is bet.

You see if the favorite beats the spread on a Thursday night, the majority of the money generated are parlayed into Sunday, and thus less money is wagered on Sunday.
If the majority of people lose their bets on Thursday, they will be forced to wager from scratch on Sunday, thus you generate more money.


We're not talking about the existence of one of the hundreds of Gods and Goddesses in human perception.
We're talking about pocketing money.
LJ made an argument that if my theory was correct, that it would leave a paper trail.
Seriously?
Do you really think that people pocketing billions of dollars from the masses, would leave a paper trail proving their guilt?

You ask for evidence?
Do you really think that they'd leave evidence for me to provide for you to see?

Call it whatever you like, conspiracy or not, the masses lose, and their tools are helping the masses lose.
You may believe that media outlets coincidentally assist in the masses losing their money, I do not.

You could say that, if i had just come out now and said what i've been saying.
However, I've been talking about it since you first met me, and well before that.
I have been at the cellar for 6 years now talking about this
Time has shown, that in the NFL, my theory is consistent with reality.

Thank you!
This is the reality in the NFL, NHL, NBA and somewhat in the MLB.
This is another key in making profits on long term bets.
Betting on teams that hold very strong young rosters who were evidently drafting the years before, result in large prices on serious contending teams.

Perfect example for the upcoming season could be the Washington Nationals, as 19 year old, soon to be legend, Bryce Harper, will be starting in the Major leagues.
Harper is accompanied in the line-up by power-full hitting Zimmerman and Werth.
Word has it that they're after an elite lead off man to compliment this starting line-up
The team holds Starting pitcher "Stephen Strasburgh" who is the most watched starter in the game, and he is phenomenal!
Tyler Clippard is about as good as a reliever can be.
Now, the Nationals play in a division with the #1 favorite to win the world series Philadelphia Phillies, the amazing Atlanta braves, the up and coming Miami Marlins, and the poor hopeless NY Mets.
So the price is going to be through the roof when it comes out.
You need only put a few coins on Washington to make some serious dough.

You have now extended the conspiracy to all media and ex-players.

It's the paper trail, as Jim says. Not just paper, but people trail. Conspiracy theories are ridiculous according to how many people are involved in them. Because when enough people are involved, the truth will inevitably come out.

Watergate, for example, was known about by a handful of people - less than twenty, until the combination of paper trail and interested informant were located.

In this case, the billions of dollars involved means that enormous attention is paid to determining outcomes. For the consistent NFL fix you claim, over a thousand people are to not just know about it, but stake their reputations and professional futures against it. If just one wife of one fired coach speaks out, the entire thing crumbles and frankly the sport is over.

I DO believe that the lines are set according to expectations and not actual quality. That's not conspiracy, that's simply the game afoot. But is it the masses' expectations or the big money bettors? If the big money is aware of this practice it would surely disappear.

(part 2)

If you look at the regular season record against the spread you notice that it's incredibly close. Almost all teams are .500 against the spread or one game off it. Since you must win 55% of the time to make money, this is a terrible atmosphere for betting.

So what is special about the teams higher or lower than .500 against the spread. The teams you would have won money betting on this year are the Packers, Bengals, 49ers. One expected to win, one expected to lose, and one average. The teams you would have lost betting for are the Rams, Colts, Chargers. One expected to lose and two average.

What you notice above all else is that teams with a good record do well against the spread and teams with a poor record do poorly against the spread. This is exactly in line with expectations. We should think that the "expectations" wagers are now taken into account and people are betting underdogs against teams known to be good.