Given I am not a parent, I can only try toimagine how I'd be were i to become one. But I am as sure as I can be without actually going through it, that any doubts I had about being able to teach my child morals would not lead me to want someone to fill their heads with falsehoods.

And if there were no religion, all we would have left would be:

the Home Shopping Network

Cute, but that idea doesnt support a belief in god. The belief in a god(s) began from a primitive mind that didnt understand its enviroment. To still base a religion on that today is really silly.

Like still believing in Santa Claus.

Dang, and here I was hoping to convert millions of atheists with a single recycled image.

Stop taking shit so serious.


Please.

:eyebrow:

I could say the same thing to you. You are taking my response to your post pretty seriously...over-sensitively, in fact.

:p:

Thats just one of my hot buttons Grave.

My mistake.

Warning: Step back and keep away from the buttons...

Of course it is. That's what people do. The fact that the average person's actions make you want to put a gun in your mouth should not be news to anyone. :)

I understand the point both of you are making, Flint and Zen ... I'm trying to reconcile the trashing of all the principles I lived by for so many years, and not managing very well. I didn't let go of what I firmly believed to be right, and I almost got myself and my kids killed for it. I stuck it out for more years than should ever have happened ... and in the end, now that I'm out, I don't know anymore that objective truths exist. Or that anything, or anyOne, objective, exists. I think it makes inherent sense that this should be, yet my experience denies it. I'm left floating in philosophical, religious, and ethical limbo.

I'm not talking about formal religion. I think human beings corrupt that to the point that, if anything Objective exists beyond us, it must cause the Objective to throw his/her/its hands up in despair. I'm just talking about whether it's even possible to live by principle, or whether, when the chips are down, principle is the first thing that kills ...

You've laid it out quite elegantly...but despite how harmless it sounds, some of us just aren't capable of doing that. Maybe we're stubborn and misguided, maybe we're idealistic visionaries. Who knows what the "right way" to live is. Some people can stomach "fitting in" and some can't.

We all make compromises in life. But we are all different in which compromises we are and are not prepared to make.

Imma steal this.
Some of us do enjoy running into brick walls our whole life and that turns out to be good for society.

Forgive me for offering unsolicited psychological speculation, but this ...

... reminds me a lot of the behaviour of a person I knew who had formally diagnosed PTSD from a psychologically abusive relationship.
After having your narrative about reality so messed with, after a while you begin to doubt your own connection to it. Writing and occasionally rereading a journal is supposed to help. Repeated affirmations.
And frankly, being a bit of an ornery bitch and not allowing ANYONE to bullshit you, seems to be part of the process.


Philosophically, I am convinced that there is an objective reality independent of human existence or thought, and that our senses and science at least approaches knowing some of this.
I'm very doubtful about this having any kind of consciousness or unified thought.

But that's not what you're focusing on.

Compromises Vs Principle is a heck of a tricky issue. Maintain core values, but don't be a jerk about little things, is my best guess.


(Philosophically, I focused on metaphysics, epistemology and phil of mind - not ethics and such. Shows, don't it? ;) )