Brian, with all due respect to you and your opinion, you really can't judge the "why" women remain. Please try to understand it's so much deeper than the black and white "kill him, get help, just leave." Many women eventually do...but the thought processes that take them to that point are something that can't possibly be understood unless you've gone through it.

It's such a complex thing that I can't even begin to make sense of it myself, much less break it down in a post.

I think most men do recognize this emotional/hormonal effect on their thought/decision/action, process, is part of what defines women. It's part of what makes them good mothers and care givers.

It also makes us hesitant to vote for them. ;)

I declare that South Lyon Sea Lions shall be made to swim wearing donkey ears and butterfly wings at Fall Championships this year.

Unconditional love. It's that easy. Women were built to absorb tons of pain, and they put up with a hell of a lot. All of them. The physical pain hurts but the residual psychological effects don't just go away. There is this thing we have called empathy, care, and compassion. These are double edged swords and women have to sit on the blade sometimes. Men have varying degrees of this too. We are traditionally more emotionally mature, but with this comes resposibility, then comes inevitable pain. Most women are tortured by those closest to them when they are tortured (statistically). Yes, that screws you in the head. Not only are they viewed as second class in most countries, but they are also treated like dogs. So the dog keeps coming back home and takes another beating. Some women love unconditionally and some do not. Then there's the women with absolutely no self-esteem or self-respect, and even unconditional love is lost on them, because they only know how to submit. Then it's ok to push them in the dirt just because you can.

Talk a woman out of love, see what you get. When all the love is beaten out of a woman, you get a psychopath. Love, care, and compassion keep women healthy. But there is a drawback, because sometimes it makes them sick. Watch a woman that has a murderous son. She still loves him now doesn't she? Unconditional love. That's what people admire about women in the long run, but it is also something to be taken advantage of, and people do it because they are sick immature freaks.

I say "people" because women can be abusive as well.

If anyone wants to argue with any of this, go ahead. It isn't firm. It just sounds like it. :)

That is one of the best posts I've read in a very long time. Thank you for that, Cicero.

The residual psychological effects do not go away, as you said. :(

Cicero, the only point I'll argue (and it's a big one) is this:

All of them?

This is why Treas is bright for seeking the help of a professional. I have to add this, as it was intended for my previous post. *BrianR not a therapist.

There is always always always, something. Just in my experience, and I have known a lot of women from diverse backgrounds. Just as a wide sampling, yea. Some talk. Some don't. mmm'k? I didn't mean to depress people. Jesus. Srry. Moving on. Hey can this go in the Hall of Drift?

:p

Very enlightening post Cic - I can relate to too much to it I'm afraid. A far as "All of them" - There are very VERY few absolutes in life.

"Just as a wide sampling, yea." I already inserted this disclaimer classic. :)

I was referring to HLJ on that part - rereading my post that was my bad.

Well it's not been beaten out of me, but as a woman without a partner or children I can't say I agree with your diagnosis completely.

But I do agree that in general women are driven more by emotion and men by ambition. I just don't see one trait being worse than the other in political terms. Even an overly emotional leader surely couldn't kill as many of their own supporters as Stalin or Mao.

Cic, excellent post. I do know women (one in specific) that fit your description to a tee. And it's not some person with "no other options" or lack of will -- she's perhaps the smartest, strongest (and best educated) person I know. Unconditional love, to her, means once she has made a commitment, She. Will. Not. Back. Down. No matter how much it hurts her (and it has, many times).

I somehow missed all those "feminine" qualities. There isn't a person or thing in this world I couldn't walk a way from. It might kill me, but I'd turn my back on them and walk away forever if I was rejected. I don't hand out many second chances.

I can't decide which is worse.

But you still "love" don't you? Here kitty kitty..We are talking in general terms. You love stuff. I know it.

I wasn't giving a diagnosis. You'll know it when I pull out the diagnostics manual on your asses. :D

I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the abused and traumatized. We are still talking about women that have been severely abused and/or traumatized. And unconditional love.

This is my thread jack and I'm sticking to it. ;)

"Better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all." by Saint Augustine.