I guess you would scare away an unarmed intruder, but if I broke into a house, and had a gun, and heard that, I would shoot the first thing that moved, figuring I would get shot if I hesitated.

That fact anybody in america feels they need a gun to protect themselves says a lot about the state of crime in that nation.

You're right, anything could happen, especially from someone accosting you with a gun. He's already broken many social norms to do that. If someone points a gun at me and says "give me your gum", I figure if he wanted to kill me, I'd be dead already. If she wanted to rape me, I figure she'd say "take your clothes of and make that weenie hard, hot stuff" or something.

Would you really rather kill someone than put up barbed wire and flood lights?

YEAH YEAH we heard your rant, we know you are from a gun banning culture, blah blah blah I already argued with you about it. Give the same statements a rest!!! America is a criminal nation wow what else is new from you yack yack yack.

Don't be such a crybaby about it. It isn't my fault your crime is so high.

Blah blah blah yack yack yack we heard this 10 pages ago! I seriously don't want to sound like a redneck, but if you don't like the US why did you emigrate here!

And obviously you didn't read what everyone else posted that supported why America is not a rampant criminal society. You didn't read those posts huh didja? Just save it, this thread has moved on ducky.

Wow like I had a choice moving here. I guess you figure I somehow made my dad uproot us and move us to this place. Oh and I have read those posts but have yet to see anything that shows crime isn't high in the US.

You are gonna be like my mom when you grow up ducky. A prideful, stubborn, sometimes annoying Asian hag. :headshake

JK! :D But seriously..
(all the Dwellars are gonna be like "oh shit they are flirting again")

I'll admit I am stubborn...

REALLY!? :dead3:

What do you mean again? :eyebrow:

for one the use of statistics can be used to prove anything.. so they aren't really valid. I can pull up stats to prove anything.. anything. really. I own a gun.. a 410. quick w/ rocksalt/gravel ( holding to the old 'blunderbuss' ideal' rounds. quick and very very painfull) if that doesn't make you think twice.. the 45. call. will. I would regret taking a human life, however if you are trying to rob me.. you are not a ' human being' in the traditional ( amer-indian) sense. so your life is forfeit. play nice.

hey duck_duck? where do you live? perhaps it's just a national ' bad neighborhood' ie. detroit. / freshchronic? where? huh? souds liek more of a case of bad luck rather than a national average..

I live in Champaign IL, but I'm from Chicago suburbs. RePRzNtN Chi-Town wooooooo! Yeah we have guns, WHAT? Hahaha, jk. But seriously....we do. But I love the city, no one's gonna make me think differently.

I'm originally from hong kong but have been living in houston for a while now.

Maybe...maybe not. I think it varies on people's individual circumstances. I've lived in high-crime cities most of my life, and have never felt the need to own a gun. Though I'm not opposed to responsible people owning guns (some of my friends and relatives have them, mostly for hunting and law enforcement, a few for 'protection') for me, using good sense has worked well enough.

I heard a humorous send up of the 'gun crisis' in the US at the moment on a local radio station the other day. They were generally discussing it on a talk back station when one of the hosts popped up and said, "The answer to the gun crisis in America is more guns".

I thought this was interesting. Not only because it was funny to hear at the time, but also because that seems to be the general concensus. Ironic really.

The general consensus (that's how we spell it in the States)? That's news to me.

Not only is it news, it is a stupid notion.

Well, gun proponents would have us believe we'd all be safer if we all had guns right? How many times in this thread alone have we seen the argument that if someone else had had a gun the VT shooting might not have occured or at least may have been minimized?

We don't need spelling nazi's here too do we? I think you got the idea didn't you?

Good sense will go a long way to keeping you protected. It will not protect you forever. The gun is for those times when the best of your intentions cannot prevent you from being some punk-assed-criminal-rapper-wanta-be tries to put a cap in your ass.

Hong Kong is one of the safest cities I have ever been to, I was there for a month. I imagine, from the things I read, that Singapore is similar.

OH. That must be the good advice they dispense at CNS News.

What is CNS news? Never heard of it.

Yeah, because since that's what they always say on tv, it must be how it works.

Once again you've phrased something so poorly as to make it intellectually dishonest... but yes, yes I would. Are you seriously suggesting I should live like a prisoner so that criminals are a little safer?

How so? You made the connection, I'm just asking....

No, so you'd be safer. Do you lock your car, or just carry a gun?

That doesn't sound like the Chuck Norris I know, Spexxvet.

If there is an "altercation" between two people, and neither has a gun, the likelihood of someone dying is low. Add one gun, and the likelihood increases. Add two guns, and the likelihood skyrockets. If your goal, in life, is to keep all your stuff, or die trying, then I recommend that you pack heat. If your goal is to spend a long life with your family, don't have a gun. You and your family can do without a TV. You can overcome the emotional trauma of a sex crime. But you won't be there if you are dead, or in jail for having misjudged a situation. Sure, an assailant can come along, demand your gum, then rape you and kill you. You can also have a car accident and get killed. Or a safe could fall on your head. You take prudent precautions to improve your safety, but shit happens. IMHO, you are less likely to die if you have a gun.

This is the part where you are wrong.

two people are packing guns, one is a criminal. Explain how the likelihood of death doesn't increase.

I am curious to see your point too Clod.

If only one person has a gun, the person with the gun obviously has the power and as long as both parties cooperate and want to get out without anyone dead, nothing with happen.

If both people have guns, a power struggle will ensue. Most criminals are only stealing out of need and do not want to get hurt, so once they see a gun they may panic and attack if they have a weapon. That goes the other way too, if someone is being attacked they may jump the gun to early and one if not both could be killed.

Where did you get your expertise in the psychology of gunpoint scenarios?

The criminal is a coward, and wasn't planning on (and isn't interested in) a fair fight.

bullshit

You misspelled "run." At least you got the "may" part right, since you don't have a goddamn idea what they may or may not do.

Its common sense. If you put two people with guns in the same room and one threatens the other in a stressful situation, things will usually go downhill fast.

Yeah, all the guys in the projects steal from people for the fun of it. Then why do they steal if it isn't for need?

What was the point of that? Do you expect me to list all the options that are irrelevant to the point?

No, it is not common sense. It is your biased opinion. :D I win!

wow... champaign huh? I spent a few years there growing up... southside elementary school, last time I was thru it was closed down.. hesslle (sp?) park? we lived a few blocks from there.. there was a twisty brick lined street.. huh... memories..

my granmonster (meant with love mind you) lives right behind the poolhall where they shot the color of money... in little poland town :)) if you ever do the sausage thing... (food... mind you) head out of the laramie station L station, head down the road and hit the Krakow deli... best damn sausage in the world (or as much of the world as I know, which is a little bit).. made by people who speak nglish as a second language... but I have never heard words that i didn't understand sound more beautiful coming from that blackhaired ice blueeyed woman behind the counter....

If only this lady had been there...
"She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun..."

Unfair and cowardly would be to kill your opponent before they have a chance to shoot - as soon as you see the gun. Like I said, as soon as a second gun is introduced, likelihood of death shyrockets. You may be thinking like a rational, law-abiding citizen. As Jinx said, anything can happen.

Like I said, if keeping your stuff or die trying is your life goal, and you're willing to kill someone to keep your stuff, pack heat.

I really didn't think this was the idea, since the law in nearly every state requires you to flee if you can in almost all situations outside of one's home. Some states won't let you fire a shot on a home intruder unless they show violent intent with a weapon.

You're really going to have to explain this to me, because I don't understand that statement.

Your whole point here was, "If you have a gun, they will shoot you."

My response was, "Unless they don't, which is at least equally likely."

Your response was, "Yeah, that's a possibility, so what?"

Your point is invalid.

I would disagree. That would be the smartest move. If a criminal pulls a gun on you and you shoot and kill that person, you will not find a jury that will convict that person for defending themselves. Well unless they are OJ's jury.

:dedhorse:

From here, only updated for today.

Cowardice is avoiding situations that put you in danger. There's not a whole lot of situations more dangerous than having a gun pointing at you. If you are an armed criminal, the easiest and surest way of avoiding the danger of a gun being pointed at you would be to kill your victim before they have a chance to aim their gun at you. As soon as you see a gun, bang! An armed criminal facing an armed victim would not run away - that would give the victim the opportunity to shoot the criminal as he fled.

A fair fight would be one in which both parties have the same tools. A criminal would not want a fair fight. An easy way to keep the fight unfair would be to eliminate the victim's ability to use a gun - in other words pre-emptively shoot the victim. Again: see a gun and bang!

Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?

Why, you'd have to be Quick Draw McGraw!

No one can state how or where and under what circumstances anyone is going to encounter any situation. Who knows? I will tell you if I have a chance to pull it out and shoot the person dead, without asking questions, I will do it. Of course you are talking to someone who has had formal combat CQ handgun training from H&K. So my position is much different from others. There are many ways to foil events like this. Dramatic gestures work very well in diffusing situations like this. One of the least used and most effective is for a person to put his/her hands up and scream at the top of your lungs over and over "Don't shoot..... (bla, bla, bla)". Fall to the ground and obtain your weapon and fire. There are others, but you need to be ready and train for such events. Nine times out of ten you have been targeted because you presented yourself as a target. Situational awareness is number one. Learning to avoid becoming a victim is more important than learning to shoot a gun, or owning one. There are plenty of law abiding citizens male and female, who should probably not allow themselves to get anywhere near a gun, for their own safety.:earth:

I said if they have a gun and see that you have a gun, they may shoot you.

It wasn't a definite statement meaning there are other possibilities.

My statement is valid as long as you don’t change what I say.

Here is some candy for you pro-gun people.

Or die trying.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! You're the ginchiest! My hero! I'm soooooooo impressed!

The lotus? Doggie style?

If I were a criminal, with my gun out, and you made a "dramatic gesture", you'd be dead.

Unfortunately, most Americans aren't.

That's what I'm talking about. There are many things one can do to avoid killing or being killed with a gun.

And you want a serious reply to those comments??? My bad I thought you wanted a serious answer...

Why can't we all just get along?

I would just grab your happy ass and hold you in front of me until they finished firing all of their bullets, hoping that you would catch most of them in your chest or head and I would be missed completely. Then I would knock the bad guy down with your limp body by throwing your bloody mess at him! Then I would give him your gum.:D :D :D :D

The only statement that could be responded to was whether your possition was Lotus or doggie style. Seriously...:right:

You get what you get because your arguments are all crime- and genocide-friendly, Spexx. You prove, at length, redundantly, and ad nauseam that your morals just aren't what they could be, nor what you suppose them to be.

That's called having a disconnect in your brain.

The rest of us, happily, are better adjusted.

I've only heard ONE in this thread say that a firearm has been necessary to preserve their life. The rest, like me, have said that we aren't afraid and many of us, me included, do not even own a gun. I leave my windows open and my doors unlocked the vast majority of the time. Don't judge ME by a minority group of people who are either paranoid or choose to live in bad areas of the cities they live in.

We get it: you are 16, idealistic, and scared to death of the average Joe's ability to use reason and logic. The US is unlikely to change its policies on the right of citizens to arm themselves, since it was something the founding fathers saw as important enough to put in the documents created in the founding of this country, regardless of how brilliant a 16 year old thinks she is in knowing what is best for an entire nation of people!

So you have two years, maybe less, until you are a legal adult and can get the hell out of the United States of Wyatt Earp of your own accord.

Think about this for a minute: is your father an idiot to have moved his family to a gun-totin' country like the US, or did he have good reason to come here? Perhaps all isn't as rosy in Hong Kong as you would like to think? I have some friends from HK who would argue that life is much, much better here, and they have been around the block many more times than you have.

You say in your profile that you are a simple person who sees the world in simple terms. It might be time for a broader world view, since the world is far from simple and to dumb it down to the level of simplicity is to close your mind to things you don't know. And trust me, at 16, there is a whole lot that you don't know.

I applaud you Agent. Well said, well said.

I would have said something like that, but I didn't want to get that personal.