My wife has sort of a bifurcated point of view...when it is me, she doesn't care about the physical, except that it is a lack of appropriate physical attention that disturbs her...except that it is because she feels that it means I don't desire her.

Its all pretty damn confusing. And judge away. People do (not that you were).

I would never judge you, I respect you too much :)

I don't know, but if she is worried about things and you are worried about things, I wonder if it is the best option. Have you tried other ways to work it out? I am assuming you have, though because you did say that you had gone through this before.

Sheesh - I wish I had something useful to give you. I think that my younger age is coming into play here. I am trying to help, but just don't have the experience to.

So Elspode she isn't satisfied in bed? and thats why she wants someone else? Geeze, seems kinda odd to me, my b/f isn't the best (neither am I) but I could never really imagine myself having sex with someone else. Maybe its because sex to me is much much more then just the physical. We each try our best and if one thing or another isn't working we try something else. We research different things we could do. I've even thought about buying a toy for myself, haven't yet though (I watched Sex Talk with Sue Johnson and now I'm scarred). I'm sure you're experienced with all of the different kinds of methods, but I wouldn't give up if I were you. Especially since both of you are having doubts.
EDIT: I had a friend who bought a vibrator so that she could "show" her boyfriend what to do. Fortunatly I didn't have to hear the details, but it might be worth a try.

I thought everyone owned at least one vibrator, either for use when they're alone, with their partner or a bit of both?

'Spode, I think if either of you werent the least bit concerned or jealous, I would be worried.

I would think what you are both feeling/thinking is perfectly natural for an involved couple going down this path. Its human nature to be jealous (are we the only species that feels jealousy?) and if either of you werent concerned about the consequences in the least...I would be concerned that these little trists (I dont know what to call them) werent actually what you are describing.

I've been to swingers parties (non participating - its a long story) and from what I gather, everyone there who is actually in a devoted and loving, healthy relationship...all go through the emotions you and your wife are feeling.

I believe its healthy to feel what you are feeling, insecurity and jealousy, in healthy doses are great things.....the possessive insane insecurity.....really unhealthy.

I have no great insight, but I seriously love your openness and honesty on here :)

I think if you were both 100% ok with it, no problem... have fun.
If not... you need to work it out together.
Swinging should be a vacation, IMO, not therapy or to prove a point.

Nothing we do, the Mrs and I, is ever so simple as a vacation...not even vacations. :p No, we tend to analyze everything down to the eleventeenth decimal place, dissecting, slicing and dicing it all, trying to come to some meeting of our very, very different minds.

I'm not 100% behind her reasons for wanting to engage herself with others for recreational sex, and she's not 100% behind how I approach such matters...namely, that attraction to someone is, for me, not so simple as, "Yo, sistah, you so fine...hows about we do each other, yo?" As I repeatedly have stated here, attraction for me is about the whole person. For me, having off with a new person is equal parts of the conversation and interpersonal interchange before and after as it is about the whole humpin' and pumpin' portion of the festivities.

I can't help who I am or how I become aroused, and Mrs E understands that all too well. That's why she sees me as a higher risk than she. That's why I have to work major overtime making her feel secure, assured, confident, desired by me.

It can be exhausting. Literally, in the case of today, as I got 3 hours of sleep after all was said and done and talked about last night. And...I did not have sex with that woman. Much talking between us, with me largely listening, and about twenty minutes of passionate necking before I stood up to get home by my curfew of 12:00 AM. But there is going to be a next time for all concerned.

And so the tawdry beat goes on... :D

It all sounds like a game to me.
Sorry, I don't mean that as an insult, I really don't.
It is very foreign to me, I tend to remove myself from situations where all the cards are not on the table. I cannot offer any more than I have, other than I truly hope this works out for you. I believe you are a nice person and want your relationship to work.
I just think she is trying to get you to do it while flying blind. She needs to tell you exactly what she wants, expects and how you are supposed to give it to her.
IMO, she does not want to have sex with another man... she want you to react in a way that only she knows. Most likely something involving looking like a Cavalier swordsmen busting down a door, metaphorically.

Our cards are very much all on the table. The problem is that my cards are in one language, and hers are in another. We do not intepret each other's iconography very well, so to speak. I sometimes make the comparison thusly: Just because your radio doesn't tune to all frequencies doesn't mean that the air isn't teeming with those frequencies. She sees it as me being unable to give things, and I see it as her being unable to receive them. The bad part is, from each individual point of view, both of us are right.

If it is a game, she's the only one playing it. Me, I'm just going with the flow. Even though I'm not 100% on board yet, I do not find the prospect of resuming what was a very enjoyable series of encounters with my lady friend after a four year postponement to be a bad thing by any means. I think that my wife's take on her side of things is fairly similar as far as the actual entertainment value goes. When we are monogamous, we don't have a very good sexual relationship. When we're poly, we almost do each other to death. Does it make sense? Of course not.

If it is working fine... but you are trading sex for paranoia. I don't think it is a fair trade.

As for all the cards... I call BS. She knows what straight talk is. So does my wife. Playing dumb sometimes, when it is convenient, is a game, nothing more, nothing less.
I did not say you were playing... I suggest she it.

Yes it does. I'm having a tough time getting my mind around that. I find it hard to believe you are a prude, won't do anything she is up for...or is it stamina? Sounds more like acquiesced than agreed. How about moral/ethical restraints against making your chosen partner, someone you love and care about, feeling pressured into an uncomfortable situation, unsure about their future, doubtful of their abilities as a lover/equal partner? Pagan, schmagan..... poly lifestyle may be a viable lifestyle in your teachings, in your spiritual philosophy but that doesn't make it mandatory, or even viable, in your marriage, in your head, in your personal choice for your own comfort. There's a big difference between armchair discussions on what you think is the right attitude to have about how others live their lives, and deciding how you feel about your own arrangement. Just because you feel you shouldn't tell other couples what they can and can't do has no bearing on deciding what you're comfortable with in your own. Well you've got it.....oh boy, I get to be the dick..... you're fucking up. You've rationalized, or been rationalized, into a lifestyle you don't want. You've looked at the pros and cons, listened to the analysis, been persuaded life will be better.........BUT, you've ignored your gut. Bad move, your gut knows the truth...believe me...I've been there, done that. :cool:

Straight shooting from my very good friend Bruce and my new friend Rkzenrage. I asked for no less, and got strong and valid points of view. I'll likely have something to say after I've mulled and digested the commentary, but I want to be sure you guys know that I very much appreciate the input and I am taking to heart and mind your thoughts.

I'm sure you are...I expected as much.....that's why I gave you an honest opinion, my friend. No matter what, we're with you. :grouphug:

Absolutely... at least you are working at this marriage and not just throwing in the towel like most do. Thanks for the role model.

I kept trying out different responses els, but in the end the idea of being poly in a relationship is so unfathonable to me. I don't feel that I can give sufficient advice, other than do what you need to to feel comfortable and happy in your relationship. If you don't like the idea of another man satisfying your wife, tell her so. The sex aspect can be just as important as other areas of the relationship, don't down grade it b/c it seems only physical, for many (seemingly including yourself) it goes way beyond the physical. Perhaps a change in enviroment, i.e. romantic getaway or new bedroom methods would help the two of you out. You could even remodel the bedroom to make it sexier and more comfortable (add strategically placed mirrors, some silk sheets, aromatherpy candles ect). I read recently that the bedroom should be reserved for sex and sleep only, remove TV, radio (not alarm tho) make sure that you aren't eating/drinking (unless its for "fun"), or doing bills/work in there. I'm biased b/c I'm anti-poly (for myself atleast) but if there is any doubt in your mind I think that you should halt activity until such issues are completely resolved.