I think that's a good idea when we make alterations to the planet and its environment.
But when it comes to food, worms & fish, gazelles & lions and animals & I, will be on the same footing. :)

There's a difference between preaching[2] and recruitng. You can do whatever you like. It has no effect on me. I don't try and convince you that my way is better, rather, I treat you like an idiot^H^H^H^Her...you get the idea. ;)

I tend to generalize most comments.

Most people immediately try and justify their lifestyle upon learning I don't eat meat. (Because that's usually how the conversation starts. Me saying something like, "No, I don't eat meat.") If it's not that, then it's commonly something along the lines of "Well how can you possibly get enough protien?".

Because let's face it, most people don't have a clue when it comes to what you actually need for nutrition. Want me to back up my claim? That's easy. Look at most Americans. Would you like me to Super Size(TM) that?

Also consider that most people have no qualms about squashing an insect. It isn't even something they think about. Really, you get bit by a mosquito, what happens? You smack it. It's almost reflex. No thought involved other than "ouch, you bastard".

That really is the problem. No one even considers what they're doing. It's just done out of habbit. Not all habbits are good, for you, for the enviornment, for whatever.

Quzah.

[Edit]Fixed the double-preaching typo.[/Edit]

      Kind of funny, I get the same type of response when I tell people I'm not christian. The only difference is that it's more like, "Aren't you worried about burning in hell?" God, people are stupid. I think we, at least, agree on that...
      As far as treating me like an idiot goes, why not? I'll lift an Orange Juice in you honor. Later.

It seems to me that we value the life of other humans so that we'll get the same consideration in return if we're ever in a time of need. Given that, what possible benefit would I get from valuing the life of a mosquito or cow? I don't expect either of them is likely to rescue me from a burning building.

      No, a cow won't save you from a fire. It does taste pretty good after it's been over a fire though. Thus, we do value a cow and take care of them and raise them. We don't eat mosquitos though. I guess that's why we gas them to death.

So you only value something if it gives you something in return? Interesting. I suppose that is the whole concept of value though, isn't it? If you don't get anything out of it, it's worthless? I get nothing other than an armfull of poison from mosquitos, yet I acknowledge their right to exist. Furthermore, I must have assigned some value to it, for I got out of my way to avoid smashing them or what not. (IE: The spider example, I catch and release rather than just squash them.)

I get nothing from the spiders, other than the occasional bite while I sleep, or a nifty web to look at, and yet, I let them go.

I often wonder if people had to kill their own food if they'd all be so eager to wolf down a burger. I doubt it. Oh sure, there are some who it wouldn't phase. Some probably who would even enjoy it. However, I bet a number of them would change their eating habbits.

I don't eat animals because there is no need, and because I have attributed value to their existance. It is not my place to tell them they don't have the right to live or to be used for my advantage.

Quzah.

I think the more annoying factor would be the extra work involved in feeding the cow while it's alive and processing the meat after it's dead. But people used to have to do that, didn't they? Back on farms? And they still ate meat.

Quzah, can't help but point out that there is only one "B" in habits. Since this is the third time you have mispelled it, I'm assuming it's not a typo:)

I tend to agree with this point, Whit. It kinda lends credence to my position against animal abuse/cruelty. Example: Assume the cow has a soul. Shoot, after thinking this out it isn't actually logical. I was going to say as long as the cow is alive and we don't hurt/abuse it, we are not harming it's soul. I was going to jump from there to say so it's OK to eat it after it is dead and the soul has left, but this is just wrong because in order to eat it *someone* must kill it, hence "kill" it's soul. Even if *I'm* not the one doing the killing, *someone* is and since I enjoy the benefits of the dead, soul-less cow, I am in effect also responsible for the "killing" of it's soul. Looks like I might have just scored one for the Vegans. I eat meat, but I have to agree with Quzah, if I had to kill it myself, I'd become a vegetarian real quick. That's *me* though. I know lot's of peeps who love hunting and would probably rather kill their own "meat", rather that get it from the grocery store.

[quote]Originally posted by quzah to juju

So you only value something if it gives you something in return? Interesting. I suppose that is the whole concept of value though, isn't it? If you don't get anything out of it, it's worthless? I get nothing other than an armfull of poison from mosquitos, yet I acknowledge their right to exist. Furthermore, I must have assigned some value to it, for I got out of my way to avoid smashing them or what not. (IE: The spider example, I catch and release rather than just squash them.)

I don't get much out of people, I guess maybe that's why I don't value most of them too much, but at the same time I don't kill any of them either. I, sometimes begrudgingly, acknowledge their right to exist.

Quzah, mosquitos don't inject "poison" into you. They release an anticoagulant to stop your blood from clotting, then they feed by sucking your blood. However, they can transmit disease during this process (ex. West Niles virus). I'm not suggesting you start killing mosquitos, but be aware that they do pose a risk to your health.

I get nothing from the spiders, other than the occasional bite while I sleep, or a nifty web to look at, and yet, I let them go.

Most times I don't even bother moving the spiders outside, they just hang out in the corners.

I often wonder if people had to kill their own food if they'd all be so eager to wolf down a burger. I doubt it. Oh sure, there are some who it wouldn't phase. Some probably who would even enjoy it. However, I bet a number of them would change their eating habbits.

As a meat eater and an animal lover, I've thought about this many times. Those two terms seem to be diametrically opposed and at times I find some issues difficult to deal with. I do agree with you on this and I fully acknowledge the fact that if I had to kill my own food, I'd quickly become a vegetarian, or vegan rather.

Not true, those spiders eat a tremendous amount of biting insects that carry disease. That spider could save your life.:eek:

      I think you mispoke here. You wouldn't be "killing" the soul, just releasing it. Liberating the soul, if you will. Viva la liberation!

Agreed, Whit...if indeed 'soul' does exist, then by definition, it is a separate entity from the body which houses it while on this plane.

Thank you Queen Anal. I acknowledge your nit-picks.

The fact of the matter is, a mosquito bite itches. A spider bite itches. Thus, they are similar. It's much simpler to say you're poisoned by a mosquito than it is to say "I had an anticoagulant injected into me through the mosquito's proboscis, and as a result, I have a swolen bump on my arm that itches like a spider bite would."

Now run along and play.

Quzah.