Except that (so far) we LIKE LUVBUGZ. ;)

I'm just waiting for her to call Quzah a "mook," then all bets are off...

I don't think so. All the cats I've been around, especially the barn cats, the females were pretty formidable. Considering were up to out butts in cats, in this country at least, it's hard to believe they're that opposed to it.
OK. my bad. What I tried too say was it takes away the basis for the competing hypothesis that they do it for pleasure and reproduction is accidental. The other case against that is so many animals time their births to seasons and other outside influences.

     What about primates and Dophins that have sex lives that go well beyond reproduction? They're animals too. Juju referenced this but I didn't see a response.

http://whale.wheelock.edu/archives/ask01/0097.html

You are correct here, Juju. You don't have to be "taught" these things, but you still "learn" them. There are several ways of "learning" things. Learning is an adaptive change in behavior resulting from experience (Harper Collins Biology Dictionary). As I tried to explain earlier, "learned" behavior is different from "innate" behavior. The need for animals to reproduce is an innate behavior (instinctual), they don't need to learn this, they just know they need to reproduce (ie. hard-wired in their brains from birhth). This is true for humans as well, but some where along the line humans have come to associate sex with pleasure as well as reproduction. I'm not a human behaviorist, but I have a feeling that this phenomenon is a result of "learning" through experience that the sex act produces physical pleasure to "us". So, although we weren't "taught" that sex feels good we still have "learned" this through our sexual experiences.

That link claims dolphins and chimps have incorporated sex into their social behavior. Neither for fun or (intentional) reproduction, as I understand it.

I never bitched you out for your potty mouth, only for the diarrhea that seems to endlessly flow out everytime you open your mouth. Watch who you call a hypocrite, fuck-face. At least I have the intelligence to know what the word means. Go suck on a carrot or something, better yet, just fuck off and die:finger: And while you're at it have a nice day, asshole.:p

      Right Bruce, as a social thing it's not hardwired, and they are animals. There is some suggestion of pleasure, but it's clearly not the integral point. I'm just stirring the pot. Adding food for thought.

Black = Juju, Purple = LUVBUGZ

Dave is a jerk. I really wouldn't recommend taking on his philosophies. But that's your call, of course.

Dave may very well be a jerk, I don't know him that well, but I kinda like his "I meant what I said" philosophy.

In any case, I wasn't trying to deviously alter what you said in an attempt to undermine you. I just thought that's what you meant by the word.

I realize that Juju. I'm sorry for the tone of my reply. I think I was having Quzah flashbacks at the time.

In truth, I don't think either of us can prove what goes on in an animals' mind. So it's all pretty much speculation.

You are absolutely correct here. It is speculation to some extent, although, science has given us a pretty good idea/theory of what goes on in some species minds which is then extrapolated out to what other species "think/feel".

Because you don't agree with me, my hypothesis is irrelevant? Can't I have more credit than that?

Once again, I'm sorry, Juju. Your hypothesis is just as relevent as mine is.

So, okay, first of all, what is the difference between a goal and a purpose?

I look at a "goal" as something one strives to attain, meaning that once that goal is reached there is an ending. You are done because you have reached your goal. I look at a "purpose" as a reason to do something, it continues on indefinately. I was trying to say that Nature's "purpose" is "species survival", which is continuous (ie.from generation to generation), not a "goal" which would have an ending point.

Syc, what's a "mook"? I'd like to know what it means before I use it on Quzah;)

Jesus christ. Someone has selective memory. You've got to be the stupidest mother fucker I've ever had the displeasure of running across, and believe me, I've talked to quite a number of them.

How about you pull your head out of your ass and read back a few posts if your memory is so short, because have neither the time, nor the energy to explain things in small words so you can understand it.

As for hypocrisy, perhaps you need to look up the meaning. I mean seriously, act holier-than-thou because I "swear", when you're tossing them out left and right. Get a god damn clue.

Quzah.

quzah,

Funny isn't it, two people who have totally different views can feel the exact same towards each other. My sentiments exactly (ref quzah last post). Too bad you didn't follow through on this earlier promise (emphasis is mine),"What's wrong with paranoia? You're one of those people aren't you? I know about you guys! That's it, I'm not posting any more. I'm going to go change my legal name now and move. Quzah."

I've read this thread so many times it's ridiculous. Talking to you is like talking to a piece of shit. You just sit there and make everyone around you nauseous from your stench.

Call me a hypocrite, if you must, as long as you realize that I'm right and you're wrong.

Don't forget to go eat shit and die now you fucking asshole.

Ah, the reminiscences...
 

This thread makes me feel warm inside. Remembers me early USENET flamewars.

:D

Quzah, you are a very poor communicator. Your insults pushed her into a defensive mode and turned the situation, not into a search for the truth, but a contest as to who's right and who's wrong.

I personally hope that I am right, but I want the truth more than I want to be right. Unfortunately, it's difficult to ease people into this mindset when you're attacking them.

I only say this because I mostly agree with everything you said. But you're not exactly helping the cause of dissemination of truth.

Both of them need to quit flinging shit at each other. It may be too late to save Quzah, but LUVBUGZ seems to have potential.