Anger Over Mohammed Cartoon
 

Well now I'm thinking that maybe the whole culture takes itself a bit too seriously. There's been a lot of ruckus in Europe recently over a cartoon picturing Mohammed. Have these guys never seen the zillion and one Jesus cartoons or God cartoons? Have none of them seen "The Life of Brian"?

These guys need to take a tip from another cartoon: "Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent."

Now I understand. They're not angry because it's blasphemous. They're angry because it's too close to the truth.

I'm willing to bet that over 99% of the people protesting the cartoon haven't even seen it. Since it's blasphemy to print it, no Arab paper has run it.

Can you blaspheme in someone else's language/religious tradition?

I do see it as blasphemous. The writing is pretty clear that depictions of the Prophet are viewed as idolatry. It is also clear that it is very insulting. That's an incindiary combination.

However--it is the reaction to such provocations that counts more than anything.

Righteous indignation? Perfectly justified. Killing and burning, wreaking havoc against uninvolved third parties? Perfectly hypocritical. "Justifying" by inventing some causal relationship between a dairy conglomerate and the author of the cartoon based on nationality? An excuse for hooliganism.

There is some level of insult to me or those dear to me at which I will respond. Depending on the insult and how stirred up I am at the time, I can easily envision a violent reaction. Who here could not? In these times, the Muslim world it very stirred up--the air is saturated with an attitude of persecution. And this is a very grave insult. The reactions are predictable.

But it is a cartoon. It is not a crime against a person. It is pictures and words. It is not violence. It is an invitation to a fight, but it doesn't have to be an excuse for a fight.

It is evidence of intolerance and hypocrisy. And both sides are showing their intolerance and hypocrisy to maximum effect.

Are you suggesting that Muslims don't read papers that aren't printed by Arabs? I doubt it. Obviously there's no way to verify your numbers, but I disagree with your point that most haven't seen it because it wouldn't be printed by "Arab papers."

A newspaper in Jordan tried to reprint the comics to show logical thinkers what this hype was about. The editor was made redundant and the entire publication withdrawn before anyone could read it. Why? Logically, everyone should read and understand the most important detail - actual comic strip. But logic does not apply. This is about religion - imposed upon how all others must think. We cannot see that comic because we must be protected. Nonsense. But then this contraversy is not about logic. It is all about the emotions so attached to religion.

Meanwhile, the original purpose of that comic strip was not to insult and disparage anyone. Its original intent was to demonstrate the concepts and conflicts in people's interpretations of Islam. Whether this is true, I cannot say. I don't have the best evidence - the actual comics.

As far as I can tell from the articles on the net, the 12 'toons have only been published in one Danish and one french, papers. If that's true then Glatt's 99% is valid and probably conservative. :thumb2:

The publisher of the French paper fired the editor who printed them.

Glatt's number is too low, because it would be blasphemous for them to actually look at the cartoons.

http://cellar.org/2006/Mohammed05.jpg

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/...sten-Cartoons/

http://cellar.org/2006/behead.jpg

Brit muslims respond.

A Kuwaiti paper ran them, the editor was fired, he defended his decision. The BBC published a couple to contextualize the story, a German paper than them in a confrontational way. I got fucking angry at for British foreign minister Jack Straw today, I'm sorry fuckwit but freedom of speech is freedom to offend, to insult, the freedom to anger, to piss people off without fearing having your throat fucking slit in the street. You cannot have one without the other. This ridiculous kow-towing is sickening. Today Muslim protesters were holding up signs like 'Europe: Remember 9/11' and 'another 7/7'. They should have been arrested under the same hatred legislation used against the BNP leaders, where they? No. It's bullshit. Good on the papers that had the balls to exercise our rights before the fascists take them away in the same of freedom from being offended.

edit: UT has good examples but some were worse. And they were chanting Osama Bin Laden.

I feel kinda silly asking this since I haven't actually done this myself, but...

...has anyone actually spoken to a Muslim they know about the cartoons? Not having seen or heard of protests taking place in the US, I'd like to talk to someone who isn't holding a sign and marching. I mean, damn, they're cartoons.

Figures. Leave it to the US to state that the press needs to be silenced so that religious groups don't see something that might upset them.

Uh...

A good mate of mine is a quite devout muslim with his head screwed on right, I'll be interested to see how he feels.

Consistancy. :rolleyes:

Report back, Jag.....please.

Kitsune - sorry, I didn't clearly differentiate the issues, the legislation should be struck down but while it is there it should be equally and fairly applied.

Oh, buh. My brain isn't firing on all three cylinders today. The pouring rain has me sleepy.

Seconded. Please report back to us! I only have a chance to chat with Muslims on campus while taking classes. I don't know any outside that environment and I'm taking anything this semester.

Here come the Mohammads! via BoingBoing

Why wasn't there a huge uproar over the South Park episode? Or a cartoon Mohammad being decapitated on a Spike TV show?

I have known quite a few followers of Islam in my life,(driving a taxi in SoCal) and 75% of them I would not turn my back on. As for the rest except for the way they treated their women they were decent people, my signed copy of The Satinic Verses was Given to me by Mohammed Cherazad, an Iranian I was working for. Farad "tony" Frozhish Told me that when dealing with muslims you need to be careful. They are offended by what we consider nothing. I think they need to grow up. There are no visible middle eastern muslims in beautiful La Crosse on the river, since 911.

When will Westerners get it through their heads that everything we do or don't do is offensive to Islam? Absolutely EVERYTHING! And double the fault if a woman happens to do it. You CANNOT please them or molify them. As far as they are concerned, you are only acceptable when you convert and are absorbed into the Borg :neutral:

I'm sorry but people that easy to offend are just too easy to pass up. I say we turn it up a notch and see how far we can push them before all their heads explode.

Hey, maybe we can set up a posthumous Robert Mapplethorpe photography exhibit at the Guggenheim of mason jars half full of urine with a Quor'an peacefully soaking in each one. Then, we can send seruptitiously taken footage to al Jazeera and wait for the fireworks.

WooHoo! Who needs cow-tipping?!?!

:lol: :stickpoke :lol:

WooHoo! Who needs cow-tipping?!?!

now theres a t-shirt !!!!!!!

If they don't like it screwmm, people make fun of my beliefs all the time, and I laff at some of the cartoons and jokes. These mohammedens need to get real.

They're sorting through the countries to see which ones will cave in. France has, Briton has not, Spain has, The US has not, etc, etc.......

It's not the visible ones that worry me. ;)

Oooooooo! I'm in troooouble! :worried:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...diah/allah.png
My contribution. I'll be buying Jarlsberg cheese (heard the muslims were going to stop buying that because Norwegians are so horrible) at the store tomorrow to show my support.

I still can't figure out why these nutters haven't been up in arms that all women aren't covered up from head to toe. Aren't we being blasphemous by not doing that? Or do they just need a reason to push their ideas onto others?

The sad fact of the matter is that Islam does not forbid (nor did Mohammed in his day) the depiction of icons in non-religious contexts. But, tell that to one-hundred thousand ignorant, uneducated, sun-baked cretins and all you'll get is a number. A number somewhere between the number drawn by the duped Muslim virgin scheduled to be caned for being screwed by a Muslim male who gets enthusiastic high-fives while his notch gets blood-soaked cane whips and the number fate deals to a foreign journalist scheduled to have his head lopped off for catching the wrong cab.

A religion of peace? More like a religion of blood and body parts. I openly scoff at this preemptive simulation proffered by Islam to disguise its core dependence on conflict. And while enlightened Muslims silently loathe their headline-hogging, primordial brethren, their vocal cords are stretched to the breaking point the minute a non-Muslim probe explores the nerve leading to the internal paradox upon which their piety rests.

I have no desire to disentangle the Gordian knot Islamic fundamentalism created to sustain itself by manufacturing offenses designed to substantiate a characterization of non-pious Muslims as Infidels. Without Infidels, fundamentalist Islam has no basis so it becomes imperative to create a perpetual supply of them. While Zion has served quite nicely as the requisite straw man in this epistemological closed loop, fundamentalist Islam is spreading its wings and is feasting on the unlimited Infidelistic potential of America and its co-conspiritors.

Seizing on this, Imams in Madrassahs and Mosques across the Quo'ran belt and in the belly of the beast itself (right here in DC for example) can't demonize the West enough. In so doing, otherwise nonexistent lines of distinction between pious Muslims and Infidels are created and clarified in terms the ignorant masses can internalize. Creating a synthetic enemy justifies Islam. The absence of an enemy would lead to the downfall of Islam since its very existence is based upon identifying and eventually terminating Infidels.

All I can say at this point is that the only defense available to the Western World against the unbridled rage fueling the Islamic furnace of hate is to starve them economically.

What I think a lot of legislators overlook is that peace is, by implication, detrimental to the continuity of Islam. Islam whips itself into a frenzy in reaction to the cartoon (even though it violates no Islamic tenant) because it adds to the inventory of Infidels to hate. And hate is the mother's milk of Islam

And the more the West kisses Islam's behind, the more determined Islam becomes to reject the overture since accepting the gesture requires Islam to poison the very well from which it drinks.

No infidels. No Islam. I say we give them what they want - a reason to exist. If Islam is slow to forgive this, IMHO, is why. It is not possible to make peace with someone who's very existence depends on the absence of peace.

So be it.

Not unlike the instantaneous credibility afforded to the hillbilly who won the Powerball lottery, Islamofascism enjoys a spotlight and an undeserved seat at the world's table by virtue of geological blind luck. But, the liquid luck sustaining this undeserved celebrity privilege is finite.

So, the world has to deal with these bozos until their subterranean trust fund runs dry. History will acknowledge in a footnote how they bought their way into civilization's timeline as well as their pending return to the barren patch of parched earth that serves as an appropriate metaphor for what they contributed to it.

C'mon Beestie, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think of them. :notworthy

If this isn't 'threatening behavious toward a group' I don't know what is. This is obvious grounds for arrest under UK law, the fact it was allowed to continue is evidence of blatant racism of the UK Police.

These people just can't take a joke. Really. They worry me.

Belmont Club has some amazing analysis going in the last few days of posts.

I really have a problem with the attitude of 'How dare you imply that Mohammed is not a prophet of peace. For this we must kill you.'

It would be funny if it weren't so deadly serious.

To rise to power, Nazis attacked the intelligencia and merchant classes so as to empower the naive. How did Milosevic inspire racial hate in the Balkans? Rush Limbaugh types currently do the same thing in America. Just because a propaganda technique is working, you would disparage all 1930s Germans and all 2000s Americans? Of course not.

Not all Islamic people are so narrow minded. And yet you would punish all for sins of the naive? That is a 'sure fire' formula to promote hate and war. Same trick used by Sharon to restart the intafada.

Take apart this controversy with a scalpel rather than painting all with a broad brush. First, some of those comics are really lame. They deserve 'censure' by art critics. Second, seek common ground to defuse tensions. Except for one comic, the whole bunch is pathetic nonsense - no humor, no insight, no redeeming value.

Meanwhile, simply ignore Rush Limbaughs of the Islamic world so they will vaporize. Worrying about such extremists only empower those extremists at the expense of intelligent Muslims. Where is my criticism? At those comics that are not funny even to those with infantile humor.

Those comics should have been condemned by comic critics. Now we have people getting emotional over really bad art.

Remember an exhibit by Chris Ofili in Brooklyn featuring a Virgin Mary painted in elephant dung? Once we ignored it, the problem quickly disseminated.

Those comics are much to do about nothing. Too many people are paying attention to something that will disappear if simply ignored. It exists only due to Rush Limbaugh type hate.

Belmont again:

http://cellar.org/2006/burningembassy.jpg

Syrians burn the Danish embassy.

Where are the protestors in America? Why is this anger only taking place in a few select countries?

Belmont makes the mistake of thinking of Europe as one country. Might seem that ways from the other side of the pond but the situation in France is very different to the UK which is very different to Denmark, all of whom have different agendas and strategies.

Yes, I would also like to point out that the Muslims are to Europe as Mexico is to the US. Many European nations depend upon the supply of cheap foreign labor coming in the form of workers from Turkey and other Muslim countries. Europe is no more appeasing the Muslims then we are appeasing wetbacks. Going by Belmont's logic, one could say that the US is wimping out to illegal immigrants from south of the border while Europe has taken a strict stance as proved by the fact that hardly any illegal Mexican workers show up there. And Jag is correct. Each country of Europe has its own policy and reasons. The UK allows in Pakistani's and Indians because these countries were once part of the British Colonial Empire, not out of some desire to appease the Muslim world. Switzerland allows in Turkish foreign workers simply because so few Swiss are willing to do the low paid labor intensive jobs commonly performed by the Turks. I was visiting one of my aunts in Switzerland once when a group of Turks came into our compartment on Swissrail as we were traveling from Zurich to Luzerne. My aunt made no effort to hide her contempt. While I do not applaud my aunt's open prejudice, it was hardly an attitude of appeasement.

Mari, that's a fairly good comparison. The difference, of course, is that fundamental structure of the immigrant culture isn't all that differnet than ours. The collonial roots run deep in each, we share common religious roots, and by and large the same rational, western worldview.

Contrasting with Europe, where almost none of those things hold true between the Old Europe and the new immigrants.

true, but that doesn't have much to do with the belmont argument.

Precisely, SM! Imagine if Mexico and the rest of South America were Muslim countries! I think what we would call "appeasement" by Europe, might take on the very same flavor here.

There are many in this country - especially the religous right - who do NOT consider that the people of Mexico have much in common with the US. They are mostly Catholic, speak a foreign tongue, and have different cultural traditions, etc.

I will agree that the Mexican immigrant to the US is probably more easily culturally assimilated than the Turkish immigrant to Switzerland, however. ;)

Mari, I don't know how you manage to wrap up every group you dislike into the nefarious "Religious Right". As far as I know, they don't have much of a position on illegal immigration.

Most of us only know/see the ones in the news, like the ones in the pictures in this thread. That's because the ones who don't approve or agree with the protesters are very silent. That dosen't leave us anyone to point at other than the bad guys. There isn't two groups standing up so we can say, ok, these are good muslims and those are bad ones. We'd have to make the assumption that the non-protesters don't agree with the protesters, and we know that's not necessarily true.

The sales of that Danish dairy went from several hundred million dollars a year to zero in five days. I'd bet it was a matter of peer pressure, maybe even thugs at the market, that caused that rapid decline. But how do we prove that? How do we prove any muslims don't agree with the protest when they are very silent?
As I understand it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the "cartoons" were a smartass reply to the guy at the newspaper that decried the lack of response to his request for someone(s) to illustrate his book.
I don't believe they were meant to be cartoons, like we know them, neither funny, political or otherwise. But I could be wrong.:dunce:

Actually, they do. Folks from south of the border are hopelessly entangled with that nasty Papist religion of theirs. See the cite I gave in my response to the "Opera is scarey for kids" thread.

Why do you think these people are currently in an uproar over a handful of editorial cartoons?

Paris didn't erupt into riots because a couple of teenagers died during a police chase just as the Los Angeles riots weren't about a man being beaten by police officers. The events that touched off these waves of violence are nothing but breaking points and so I say there is a lot more to this than some foolish drawings. Social standing, economics, quality of life, and pressure from political forces are behind this. Want to piss them off even more, drive them to more suicide bombers? Try doing exactly what has enraged these people for many decades: starve them economically and restrict their trade.

Just my guess.

Why "ya'll" pickin on my redneck? :lol2:
[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/busterb/95550907/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/43/95550907_e83d69e52e.jpg" width="395" height="500" alt="muslim" /></a>[/IMG]

Tried to do my part and get Jarlsberg cheese at the store. There was none. So either:
1. They pulled it because Arabs who I've never seen in the store complained
2. There was a groundswell of support for Norge
3. It was on sale for a week and they sold out

I'm gonna go with option three myself.

Point taken.

What is that, Buster? :confused:

These animals have done it again. They burned the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Syria over that cartoon. According to WIZM 1410 AM, this short blurb came from CBS News. I just checked CNN.com, just doing some fact checking. I hope that the PC crowd can finaly get that we are not dealing with sane and responsible people, but savages.

I am waiting for them to blow up a church or school over here. I have friends (Cops and Firefighters) that say if that happens they will stand by and let the citizens take out vengence on the animals.

I believe that we should round these assholes up and send them back to their country of origin. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

As far as oil we have plenty of sources rite here we can bring our people home and let them kill each other if thats what they want to do.

Maybe what we need to do is restrict their trade and starve them economically. When these people started showing up, we embraced them and welcomed them into our country, and even gave their children priority admission to our colleges and universities. How did they repay our kindness? By telling us that we are stupid and beneath their contempt.

My sister Widget, had a b/f from the UAE who ran up a $1400 phone bill calling his friends back home. When she asked him to pay his bill he beat her up and slashed the tires on her car. I had to pay the phone bill, and replace her tires. I went to collect money from this turd. When he saw me he called the cops. The cop that showed up told me to go home (CGC Point Hobart) and don't come back. This piece of shit had some kind of diplomatic immunity and was untouchable.

I decided at that time these people were shit. From that minute on, I have tried to avoid contact with them. In the mid 80s they started taking over the taxi business in SoCal, and used terror tactics to try and put me out of business. These aren't isolated incidents. In my experience, this is the typical behaviour of these people.

As far as I'm concerned, round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert.

My point, again, is that none of the Muslims in the US are protesting, none of them are rioting, none of them even seem to be upset about this. The people that are using these cartoons as an excuse are from several select countries that I think can easily be defined as "having issues" (economics, social standing, oppressive government, etc).

You could have replaced 'UAE' with 'Australia', 'Brazil', or even 'Boston' and the story would have been just as plausible. One person should not allow you to draw a summary for all.

I don't know about the taxi issues, but it sounds like you've had some bad, personal experiences with "these people". (Terror tactics? Did they blow up your car?) I don't know. I keep drifting time and time again to lumping all of the Muslim world into a group of people that I want to place a bad label on, but I have this awful feeling that our culture was in desperate need of a new boogeyman and that we're falling into the trap of media availability. I've never had a problem with a Muslim, never had any issues with someone practicing Islam. My old boss was a devout follower and he was a nice guy, a lot of my classmates are Muslim and they're no different than the other students. Studying with them never ended with me feeling hostile towards them, or even feeling remotely upset. My experience conflicts directly with what I hear spewing out of the television, so I take issue with it. Maybe I'm just lucky.

As far as I'm concerned, round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert.[/quote]

Great idea. :rolleyes:

I once had the great idea of actually reading up on what Islam was all about and coming to a conclusion on just how I should view these people and their place in the world. ...and then I remember reading the bible and knowing that if I applied those values to all Christians, I'd probably want to kick every single one of them out of our country, too. But, hey, I've met some decent Christians in my life, so I'd feel a bit bad about that.

But you would paint 'them' with a broad brush. Reasons provided and the logic used to obtain those conclusions are exactly what created 1960s racism - complete with hate.

Your story is nothing more than an incident. So now you blame one million others for that incident? Only using Rush Limbaugh reasoning could one conclude "round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert."

Based upon your story, then you should conclude that "we round up all diplomats and throw them in the ocean. Let them swim home." Then a conclusion would be more consistent with your sister's story.

This nation is very dependent on those other 999,999 immigrants because so many Americans are too lazy to become sufficiently educated. I often wonder who we really should be 'sending back'.

Meanwhile Kitsune asks questions that every 'responsible American' should have asked: It is what good people do. First learn their perspective. Not the perspective of one alleged asshole. The other 999,999 perspectives.

This is the difference between our Christian Right, who Glorify God, and the Islamic Extremists, who fight for (their conception of) the Glory of God.

The incedent with my cab co. they (these peaceful and giving muslems) in one nite smashed 3 windshields, burned 1 car, and beat up one of my drivers. After calling the Sherrif I was told that if there was one more complaint he would shut me down. The next tactic was to call my Mothers house and threatend to burn her house or kidnap one of my sisters. Mom took the tapes to the Sheriff , and was told there was nothing they could do untill a crime was commited. As a result I sold out and moved to a place in Texas where people named Mohammed had best not stop.

I am a very open minded person, I have friends from every race and color. My mom married an African-American and he was as much a Dad as my biological Father.


I have never seen a group of people so all consumed with hate and disdain for the rights of others as the followers of Islam. After the events of 9/11/01 we need to do every thing we can to protect ourselfs.

I told my nephews when they joined the Marines (my familys business) to never trust or turn their back on them my oldest nephew told me that in Afganistan you only trust the children because they have not learned how to hate.

Clockwise: "This one is racist", "this one is anti-Semitic", "and this one (bottom) falls under freedom of speech"

Just some fuel for the fire.