Cheating
 

I have been pondering this for awhile and was a little surprised when it was bought up amongst a group of people and there were mixed opinions.


So, I thought, who better to tell it to me like it is than you guys.


What do you class as cheating? Is it just the physical aspect or the emotional as well? What about internet interference??? is it only cheating if you actually meet someone you have been chatting to online (whilst involved with someone else) or it is once you form an emotional bond with that online person ?? If you have feelings for someone online and never act on them...is that cheating?

My ex had cant-keep-his-dick-in-his-pant-itis and he would cheat just the hell of cheating and an easy lay, but he would also do the long term affair type.....that sounds like I was stupid and stuck around...I didnt, as soon as I found out I left....but I was stupid in the fact that it happened for quite awhile before I found out.

Intent. I am trying not to be jaded, but it is difficult when every man I have ever loved has cheated. Personally the emotional aspect is more damaging to me than the physical aspect but I consider them both as bad.

My girlfriend, who I may have mentioned is 7838.56 miles away from me right now, apparently has (and has admitted to having) a crush on a mutual friend. I'm not happy but I wont fault her for it until I know she has done something. She still says she loves me more than anything else, and that its just a little thing, etc, and I believe her. As long as she's happy...

I guess intent matters a lot, but weigh the action against how you really feel about the person.

Perhaps this rhetorical question (to yourself) will help you clarify how you feel:

"Is what matters to you about a relationship only the physicality, or do the emotions matter too?"

I've been in polyamorus relationships before, and may perhaps sometimes again. I'll assert that it's not impossible at all to love more than one person at a time, nor impossible to deal with the situation of loving somebody who also loves others. But not everybody's ready to handle the additional energy and complexity such relationships consume, nor are even people who *can* do it necessarily prepared to do it at all times. Sometimes you just don't have the slack.

That said, no matter what number of intimate relationships--online *or* in person-- you're prepared to undertake, absolute honesty with all your partners is paramount.

Absent that, it's cheating.

Emotional is worse. To me, anyways. Then again, I used to be a romantic.

Cyberflirting, or even cybersex, doesn't trip my wire, I don't know why. It's all fantasy. As soon as it stops being that (e.g., making arrangements to meet, professing love, serious interest, etc.) there's a problem. Of course, with most people, the former is going to evolve into the latter, so...

Hmm, when they came into your life, were they cheating on someone else? I mean were they in a relationship you won them away from? If that's the case, it might be a sign they were prone to moving on.

Also, if "every man I have ever loved has cheated" you might be carrying a whole lot of emotional baggage that jeopardizes your relationships.
Just saying, ya know?:blush:

I once talked a person out of a relationship to be with me. I later got dumped when said girl found interest in some other guy.

The lesson I learned was that if you ever ruin a relationship for your own interest, don't be surprised when it happens to you.

That said, I figure that the basic concept expressed before (intent) is probably the truest. I like to keep it pretty cut and dried. If someone's flirting with someone, near or afar, it doesn't really matter. Their intentions show enough.

-disenchanted.

I think its the emotional bond that, once broken, causes the deepest pain. The trust that we have with another person is what sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. That said, its cheating when that trust is broken. Whether it be online, in person or any other form. It doesn't matter to me whether the "act" took place, the sin is in the mind. We all have fantasies, but once they turn into the hope or want of a real situation - its cheating.

As for wooing someone away from another person to start a relationship with you, I agree with "disenchanted". Its just a matter of time before the same happens to you.

Okay, if its all the emotional bit that counts...

Is it cheating if the dude pulls his pork to porn?

No.
Masturbation is taking pleasure.
Cheating is when you're giving pleasure. ;)

Ah, but hes looking at other women, and taking pleasure in the act of it!

That's a good point. A lot of it has to do with your agreement or understanding. Mrs RS and I stay intimate only with each other, but we have opposite gender friends. She has guys she goes to concerts and lunch with and I have my gfs I do the same. We trust each other and know we love each other the most.

So what? What's wrong with taking pleasure at looking at Women?....or cars?.....or sunsets?......or guitars?
It's giving that's cheating. :smack:

Some woman on a forum somewhere: "I don't care where my husband gets his appetite, as long as he only eats at home."

Me and my wife check out chicks together. She even does the sneaky alert-nudge that guys do for each other when a hottie is spotted.

Same here. :-) Guys too, but women more often.

Exactly, it always freaks-me-out me when people are surprised when this happens to them.
I call it the Cathy Lee syndrome. That idiot had the nads to go out in public and act like a victim when the man she stole from another woman cheated on her.
Their entire relationship was based on the fact that the were both cheaters and she acts surprised when he cheats?! & we are supposed to feel sorry for her and be surprised as well?!... give me a break. I feel for the kids though, having to live in the acid dream that is their mom's world.
Same here. Gotta' look, she knows I ain't dead. If he acts like he ain't lookin' he's hiding something.

Heh, since me and my girlfriend are both bi, we both do that for hotties of either gender. It's kinda fun.

You can always look at the menu, but you just can't order anything. Thats how my SO and I look at it. Heck, its natural to desire something you find attractive. Acting on that desire with another is where "cheating" would commence, if your in a monogomous relationship, of course.

More often than not, when I'm looking, it's admiration rather than lust.
Yes, it's true....men can look at a woman and admire her beauty without wanting to rape her.
Did you know that or is this an alien concept? :cool:

One of my oldest friends (a musician, as are most of my oldest friends, and now playing in my band with me) wrote a great line in a song after his first wife screwed around on him, resulting in their divorce. She had been cheating on *her* boyfriend when my friend and she hooked up:

"If you mess with another man's woman, you might listen what I say
If she'll fool around on him, she'll do the same to you one day."

Truer words and all...

True-true.

My cheating ex cheated on his then gf to get my me apparently, this i didnt know until after he cheated on me. I was bitching to one of his mates and he said, "well duh, he has a history of it".

Indubitably. :(

Back to the original question... (warning: very long post ahead)

I think lying is where the cheating starts. I guess I don't really consider it cheating unless there is action as well, but if you lie about what you are doing (even as small as saying that you don't flirt with a certain girl when you do) that is where the trust is broken. Without trust the relationship will almost never work out, so why wait for the lies to escalate into actions? Because in my experience, if someone is lying it will escalate into actions even if it started out innocently enough.

I think if you have an agreement on what is ok and what isn't, and you break that agreement, that is cheating. Me and my SO have been involved with others in our relationship, but we discussed it beforehand. There was no going behind the other person's back to do things. And if either of us has a potential person and the other doesn't want to do anything with him/her, then nothing happens. The only time anything is allowed between one of us and another person is when both parties agree to it before it happens.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that if your partner thinks cyber-sex (or anything else for that matter) is cheating then by doing it you are cheating on them (and vise versa). But if your partner is ok with what you are doing then it isn’t cheating. It all depends on the relationship and the agreement you have with each other.

On a side note, I know a man who just recently got divorced from his wife. Both of them had relationships with another person online. I think because they both lied about their intent with said person, they were cheating on each other. Since they are divorced now, the man will now be open with his relationship with the other person. We have also discovered that she (the other woman) came here when the couple was still married and they were physically involved with each other. I also consider that cheating, of an even greater degree than the lies about the intent (and involvement) with the other person.

The other woman is still married to her husband. They have children together at their home in Texas (the now divorced couple live in Kansas). The other woman (we will call her D to make things simpler) plans on divorcing her husband when their children are graduated from college (they are 8 to15 years of age from what I understand). She says there is no longer love in her marriage and her husband ignores her more often than not. They are just indifferent to each other. So rather than “uproot” the children’s lives, she is staying in a loveless marriage and is cheating on her husband with the now divorced man from Kansas (we will call him J). I think this is wrong. I am sure the children know that their parents are not happy with each other and so I really don’t see why she has to lie, they will know anyway.

I should mention that my parents divorced when I was 15. I knew they weren’t happy with each other and after the divorce they got along much better, so sometimes I wondered why they didn’t do it sooner. So I am of the mind that “staying together for the kids” isn’t a good idea. They kids most likely know that their parents aren’t happy, and by separating from each other the parents might be more able to handle each other without fighting. But I do understand that this won’t work for every couple. For some, staying together might be better. But I think that getting a divorce is usually better in the long run.

I also think that if D is going to stay in a loveless marriage she needs to act like she is married. If her decision is to stay with him for another 10 years, she shouldn’t be cheating on him now. If she wants to be with another man she needs to divorce her husband. What she is doing is justifying her cheating by saying that she is trying to “protect” the children. I don’t believe that, and I think it is still wrong that she is doing what she is doing.

Just my opinion on the matter.

I don't think it's cheating if you are open and above board, not hiding anything. Then it's a disagreement.

Communication is key, honest communication. Absolutely....if you don't feel your doing anything wrong, why lie? :question:

Prof. Green Beaner didn't lie to me--he told me straight out. AND he didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Maybe I've been too hard on him...should give him another chance!

Right, but that is the point I was trying to make. I don't think it is cheating either, but if your partner thinks it is cheating then it is. It works the same way the other way around, if you partner doesn't see anything wrong with it, then it isn't cheating. If you partner says it is ok for you to have sex with anyone you want to, then you aren't cheating on them by doing just that. It is agreed that that behavior is ok.

I hope that made sense...

Whatever you have agreed with you partner is what determines what is cheating and what isn't. I think all couples should discuss what they think is cheating and what isn't so there isn't any confusion on what is ok and what isn't. Communication is very important.

Exactly how loud do you want me to shout "No" this time?

(really, do what you think you need to do, and understand how this differs from what you want to do.)

If you agreed not to do it, but still do, then yes, it's cheating.
My point was if you do it, say you do it, don't hide the fact that you do it, have not agreed not to do it, it's not cheating just because they don't like it. Then it's a disagreement. :D

He still doesn't and you know it. Just explain to his wife why you're different from all the other pit stops he makes. :rolleyes:

Oh god I do hope you are joking ...

yeah, I am. I just wanted to point out that even when someone is being all "honest" with you and fessing up to doing/seeing other people it doesn't feel very good.

The magic is totally gone from my relationship with him. There's NOTHING there anymore. That makes me kinda happy but it makes me kinda sad, too.

Yes, I could tell by the way you wrote it that you were joking. It didn't have the tone of desperation as in the past.

I get that feeling when I leave a job; I know it's what I need to do, but it's sad ending the relationship. I feel sad driving away from the office for the last time. In fact, I just did this yesterday. I left three jobs since January.

As a friend recently told me, "As I get older, more things have to line up right for me to be comfortable." This is true in job relationships and personal relationships.

Doing what I NEED to do instead of what I WANT to do is the very basis of my now-philosophy! As in, "I need to do this NOW so I can continue to live" vs. "I WANT to do this {insert particular Bad Thing here} but, sadly, it would kill me." *


*Oprah never helped me with any of this, I swear.

Just think of me as your own, personal Dr. Phil.

Exactly. :blush:

My b/f and I had a discussion about cheating just a few days ago. I asked him what he'd do if I ever cheated on him and he immediately said he'd forgive me and so I asked why, and he said, because he loves me. I then told him that if he cheated on me I'd never forgive him and that it'd be over between us. He said he knew that, but that it didn't change what he'd do if I ever did. Kinda blew me away really because I know he meant what he said.

I think cheating means different things to different people, and maybe sometimes it is just about sex and nothing to do with emotions. Unfortunately, there are few of us who can make that distinction clearly, particularly the women I suspect.

Thats the exact same conversation I've had with mah girl. I know she'd totally kill me if I did, but I also know that she knows I never would. I, on the other hand, would completely forgive her, because as long as she's happy...

When I was 18, my then boyfriend and I had a huge bust up and we technically *split up*.

I went out, got drunk and went home with a mutual friend.

The next day, bf came looking for me to apologise and make up. He pulled up beside me in his car and we were chatting. He asked what I had gotten up to the nite before and me being me....blurted out the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I had just finished telling him which mutual friend I had gone home with, when who should walk around the corner and head over to say hello??....yes...the mutual friend.

Anyways, bf took me back, but the trust was gone....we made it work for a good while afterwards, but it just wasnt quite the same.



I guess for me, the cheating begins with the mind, then the other body parts and heart follow.

Off topic
 

Interestingly, I find the opposite to be true.

I've found that things line up, and the "alignment" varies, I know you know. But my response to it is up to me. My "comfortable-ness" is up to me. And as I age, it has less to do with external circumstances, and more to do with my acceptance of those circumstances. This is probably the result of growing in grace and wisdom, with a generous helping of lowering standards. YMMV.

My wife cheated on me while we were still dating. We had a long talk about it and I forgave her - we eventually got married and after she had a revelation about her drugging and drinking, came clean on everything. This included that after 17 years of marriage she had cheated on me several more times with "friends" of mine. Needless to say none of them are friends anymore (never really were) and she is not my wife either. Point is that I honestly forgave her initial discretion, but the others were too much for me to bear and it eventually eroded all trust and ended the relationship.

I think there is merit in the view that if your partner thinks something is cheating then you should respect their feelings and not do it. Besides, if your morals don't align at least most of the time what hope does your relationship have? I certainly wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life with someoneone who thinks it's acceptable to kiss someone else!

That being said, this can be taken too far. For example a person disaproving of their partner having friends of the opposite sex is just ridiculous! IMO not letting them look either is silly. My BF has a healthy interest in attractive women and he doesn't hide it. He openly admires them in my presence which doesn't bother me at all. I'd be worried if he didn't admire the likes of Jessica Alba!

As for my definition of cheating, I believe any physical activity between two people that is unnecessarily ... friendly ... could be considered cheating, taking into consideration the normal way the people involved interact with other people. Obviously there are varying degrees of betrayal and you have to judge each situation on it's own merits.

Emotional cheating is a lot harder to identify and define. I'd be a hell of a lot more hurt by this kind of thing than if my partner had a one night stand or something. Of course the physical aspect can stem from emotional betrayal in which case it would be as bad or even worse.

And not lying about the fact that you're sleeping with someone else or whatever it is you're doing doesn't make your actions any less cheating!

But where does having friends of the opposite sex end and emotional cheating begin? When your partner will confide things to a friend of the opposite sex that he wouldn't confide to you? What if he would confide these to a friend of the same sex, but not to you?

I suspect that cheating is rather like pornography . As the judge presiding over the Lady Chatterly's Lover case said ' I do not know how to define pornography , but I know what it is when I see it' .
This also shows how subjective this sort of judgement is . Lady Chatterly's Lover is no longer seen as a pornographic book by mainstream Westerners , but it would certainly be seen as morally outrageous by a mullah in Irak . Depends on you , your culture , the time in which you live , and the other person involved.

Personally , I promised my husband I would be faithful to him until the day I die . I have always been both emotionally and physically faithful to him . I do not think that the mind can be separated from the body . That is how I am , and am fortunate to love someone who believes the same . But , as I said , this is naturally and necessarily a very subjective viewpoint .