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-   -   Rush Limbaugh STILL is a big, fat idiot (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=12140)

Sheldonrs 10-24-2006 10:13 AM

Rush Limbaugh STILL is a big, fat idiot
 
After watching Michael J. Fox's comercial promoting stem cell research, for which he deliberately did not take his Parkinson's meds so as to show the effects of the disease, Rush came to the conclusion that Michael was "faking it".
Maybe they should ask Rush's ex-wives to see how good he is at recognizing when someone is "faking it".

Shawnee123 10-24-2006 10:29 AM

Rush is such an ass. He needs to go back on the Oxycontin, then OD on it.

MaggieL 10-24-2006 11:00 AM

Rush Limbaugh may still be a big, fat idiot, but Al Franken's radio network is in Chapter 11. :-)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs
I have scraped smarting things than Paris Hilton off my shoes.

Mocking Paris Hilton's intelligence would be funnier with proper diction.

Sheldonrs 10-24-2006 11:06 AM

Lol!!! Sorry Maggie, typo. Fixed. :-)
And yup. Air America is in Chapter 11. Sad isn't it? I like most of the programming on there but sometimes they get just as rabid and one-sided as the right-wingers.

Rush Limballs 10-24-2006 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Rush Limbaugh may still be a big, fat idiot, but Al Franken's radio network is in Chapter 11. :-)

The network was doomed from the start. You see, there really isn't a paying audience for angry people complaining about Bush on the radio. There may have been an audience willing to donate to keep the network going, ripping Bush, but the fact is that the market is saturated.

You don't need that type of network. You already have 4 or 5 TV networks that do that. It's old.

Pick up a newspaper...read a magazine....go see a movie, they are all ripping Bush.

The reason that I, El Rushbo, continue to kick ass and take names is that I explain (with references) all the BS of what's going on in the drive by media.

Whether there is a Clinton or not, I'm making money hand over fist.

Sheldonrs 10-24-2006 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rush Limballs
The network was doomed from the start. You see, there really isn't a paying audience for angry people complaining about Bush on the radio. There may have been an audience willing to donate to keep the network going, ripping Bush, but the fact is that the market is saturated.

You don't need that type of network. You already have 4 or 5 TV networks that do that. It's old.

Pick up a newspaper...read a magazine....go see a movie, they are all ripping Bush.

The reason that I, El Rushbo, continue to kick ass and take names is that I explain (with references) all the BS of what's going on in the drive by media.

Whether there is a Clinton or not, I'm making money hand over fist.

I'm still holding out hope the Air America can get it together. If we can't get one place to give equal time to both sides then at least both sides can get air time.

As for the 4-5 TV networks bashing Bush, the networks bash anyone in office.
They don't care who it is.

Happy Monkey 10-24-2006 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Rush Limbaugh may still be a big, fat idiot, but Al Franken's radio network is in Chapter 11. :-)

So would be The Washington Times, the New York Post, and even the early years of Fox News without continuing cash infusions from their owners.

Rush Limballs 10-24-2006 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs
They don't care who it is.

We know better than that. I'd like to thank them 100 million times a year. ;)

Flint 10-24-2006 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rush Limballs
We know better than that.

Do "we" ???

Rush Limballs 10-24-2006 11:44 AM

We surely do. :)

Spexxvet 10-24-2006 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Rush Limbaugh may still be a big, fat idiot, but Al Franken's radio network is in Chapter 11. :-)
...

Just goes to show you why Liberals are better than conservatives.

Undertoad 10-24-2006 12:21 PM

UT's quick and dirty and unfair media political bias guide:
PHP Code:

LEFT<<-------------------------center------------------------>>RIGHT
         
^    ^    ^   ^     ^    ^  ^CNN            ^Fox  ^Right talk
         
|    `NPR |   |     |    ABC               NYPost  radio
         
`AirAm    |   `NBC  `AP
          LATimes  
`CBS       WaPost
                    NYTimes 

Pew Research says the people sway this way:

http://cellar.org/2006/75-2.gif

And now you know why Fox gets the ratings that it does, and why AirAm can't survive.

yesman065 10-24-2006 12:22 PM

Geez that chart tells me there are those who wish to do something (Moderates and Conservatives) and those who just want to complain - liberals. Hmmm

Flint 10-24-2006 12:25 PM

Interesting, with that spread, in 2000, Bush lost the popular vote.

yesman065 10-24-2006 12:28 PM

"That spread" is from 2006 not 2000.

Flint 10-24-2006 12:29 PM

I mean the 2000 spread (not the 2006 spread) when I refer to the 2000 spread.

Spexxvet 10-24-2006 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065
Geez that chart tells me there are those who wish to do something (Moderates and Conservatives) and those who just want to complain - liberals. Hmmm

Jeez, that chart tells me that when forced to choose, moderates side with Liberals, not those nasty selfish conservatives.

Undertoad 10-24-2006 12:36 PM

http://cellar.org/2006/75-1.gif

The rest of the data

http://cellar.org/2006/75-3.gif

The source

Sheldonrs 10-24-2006 12:42 PM

"And now you know why Fox gets the ratings that it does, and why AirAm can't survive."

Didn't Fox lose over 1/2 BILLION dollars in it's first few years?

Flint 10-24-2006 12:46 PM

ha ha ha

The biggest shift is the drop in "conservative-identified" Democrats, and the almost perfectly-corresponding rise in "liberal-identified" Democrats... You can almost see the boogey-man-ification of the words "liberal" and "conservative" right there in the data . . .

Shawnee123 10-24-2006 12:49 PM

Anyone with half a semester of college prob & stats know you can skew data in clever enough ways as to go unnoticed and say what you want.

Data schmata. Rush is still an idiot, blowhard, pompous, self-serving...etc and so on.

Happy Monkey 10-24-2006 12:50 PM

The boogey-man-ification of "liberal" had already happened, that chart shows the de-boogey-man-ification as the conservatives displayed their incompetance.

Undertoad 10-24-2006 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs
Didn't Fox lose over 1/2 BILLION dollars in it's first few years?

I would assume that is always the case in cable networking; you would lose money until you get enough carriage and potential audience to become profitable.

Flint 10-24-2006 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
The boogey-man-ification of "liberal" had already happened, that chart shows the de-boogey-man-ification as the conservatives displayed their incompetance.

Technically, wouldn't the perceived (I'm not debating this either way) incompetence be attahced to the actual ruling party, not so much an ideology?

MaggieL 10-24-2006 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
So would be The Washington Times, the New York Post, and even the early years of Fox News without continuing cash infusions from their owners.

Well, apparently the founders of Air America have taken their cash infusions to a new shell.

MaggieL 10-24-2006 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint
ha ha ha

The biggest shift is the drop in "conservative-identified" Democrats, and the almost perfectly-corresponding rise in "liberal-identified" Democrats... You can almost see the boogey-man-ification of the words "liberal" and "conservative" right there in the data . . .

Can't be much boogyman factor to "liberal" amongst the "progressives" then.

MaggieL 10-24-2006 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet
Jeez, that chart tells me that when forced to choose, moderates side with Liberals, not those nasty selfish conservatives.

Where in the chart are you seeing "moderates"?

Flint 10-24-2006 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Can't be much boogyman factor to "liberal" amongst the "progressives" then.

I don't know, do you have another chart for progressives?

Flint 10-24-2006 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Where in the chart are you seeing "moderates"?

Moderates are the green line.

Spexxvet 10-24-2006 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Where in the chart are you seeing "moderates"?

http://cellar.org/2006/75-2.gif
The green line that's just about the same level as the conservatives. Duh.

morethanpretty 10-24-2006 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs
Maybe they should ask Rush's ex-wives to see how good he is at recognizing when someone is "faking it".

Maybe he should just follow Howard Stern's example. 8th letter down

glatt 10-24-2006 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Rush Limbaugh may still be a big, fat idiot, but Al Franken's radio network is in Chapter 11. :-)

My take on the failure of Air America is that liberals tend to be a pretty diverse group, and they don't tune in to the "mother ship" to get their "marching orders" the way conservatives do. I'm a liberal and I never once tuned in to Air America. I'm sure there are many more like me. That's why it failed.

Rush Limbaugh listeners pride themselves on being ditto heads. They make the perfect audience.

Happy Monkey 10-24-2006 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint
Technically, wouldn't the perceived (I'm not debating this either way) incompetence be attahced to the actual ruling party, not so much an ideology?

Well, we're talking public opinion here, and the ruling party at least claims to be implementing "conservative" policy. I suppose it's like religion, and some would say that they aren't "real" conservatives.

Spexxvet 10-24-2006 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt
My take on the failure of Air America is that liberals tend to be a pretty diverse group, and they don't tune in to the "mother ship" to get their "marching orders" the way conservatives do. I'm a liberal and I never once tuned in to Air America. I'm sure there are many more like me. That's why it failed.

Rush Limbaugh listeners pride themselves on being ditto heads. They make the perfect audience.

And being nice doesn't have the same "draw" for nice people as being nasty has for nasty people.

MaggieL 10-24-2006 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet
And being nice doesn't have the same "draw" for nice people as being nasty has for nasty people.

Um...you're not really describing Air America as "nice", are you? You must be one of those liberals who never listened to it, like glatt.

wolf 10-24-2006 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs
After watching Michael J. Fox's comercial promoting stem cell research, for which he deliberately did not take his Parkinson's meds so as to show the effects of the disease,

If he did that for the purpose of a commerical, that's pretty foolish, IMHO. The meds don't give gains to the patient, but they can slow down the inevitable progress of the disease. Going off the meds can cause irreversible damage.

Great way to prove a point.

What little I have heard about stem cell research indicate that fetal stem cell research hasn't shown any success, but that adult stem cell research has.

Sheldonrs 10-24-2006 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
If he did that for the purpose of a commerical, that's pretty foolish, IMHO. The meds don't give gains to the patient, but they can slow down the inevitable progress of the disease. Going off the meds can cause irreversible damage.

Great way to prove a point.

What little I have heard about stem cell research indicate that fetal stem cell research hasn't shown any success, but that adult stem cell research has.

Maybe he thought it was worth the risk to make his point.
And maybe there has been fewer gains with stem cells because they haven't had as much freedom to use them yet.
IMO, if you can get 1 inch of gain from cells that nobody is going to use anyway, do it. Don't say it's ok to send grown men and women to die for nothing when it's not ok to use some throw-away cells.

Flint 10-25-2006 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
Great way to prove a point.

Damn those point-making liberals and their degenerative neurological diseases.

Happy Monkey 10-25-2006 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
Great way to prove a point.

Yes, it sure is. If he went off his meds to make the point, then he is making a real sacrifice in hopes of helping people in the future.
Quote:

What little I have heard about stem cell research indicate that fetal stem cell research hasn't shown any success, but that adult stem cell research has.
So if it will never work, you don't have to worry about blastocysts being made for the purpose of medical treatment. But if it will work, then that argument is meaningless. Either way, the argument is worthless.

Griff 10-25-2006 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet
And being nice doesn't have the same "draw" for nice people as being nasty has for nasty people.

There is no nice on Air America. None. I enjoy Bush bashing and I still recognize that.

Flint 10-25-2006 01:32 PM

Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot is such a "nice" book title, after all...

rkzenrage 10-25-2006 04:07 PM

Poverty is not the root cause of crime.

Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the twentieth century.
Rush Limbaugh

The last thing they want is a revitalized economy now. I'm not saying the Democrats don't want a strong economy. Don't misunderstand. They just don't want it now.

“The most beautiful thing about a tree is what you do with it after you cut it down”

“Bigot-A person who wins an argument with a liberal”

“Women were doing quite well in this country before feminism came along”

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get
a liquor store and practice robberies"
(radio; reported in the Flush Rush Quarterly, January 1993).

“When a gay person turns his back on you, it is anything but an insult; it's an invitation”

“They vote with their vaginas”

“If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people - I'm serious, let the unskilled jobs, let the kinds of jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do - let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work”

“The culture war is between the winners and those who think they're losers who want to become winners. The losers think the only way they can become winners is by banding together all the losers and then empowering a leader of the losers to make things right for them.”

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1895

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1159


AIDS
"And one of the things that -- that the -- the
AIDS activists said regularly back then was, oh,
this is only a matter of time before it spreads to
the heterosexual community. It's only a matter of time.

And they used that as -- as one of the weapons to try
to get people like Reagan to start talking about it
from their standpoint. And of course it -- it hasn't.
It -- it didn't, and it hasn't, other than in Africa,
and in Africa it is -- it is being spread not just by
-- it -- it -- it's promiscuity that -- that -- that
spreads this, if you want to know the truth.
It's promiscuity.

But it -- it hasn't made that jump to the heterosexual
community."
Rush Limbaugh
June 9, 2004 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show

Blacks
"Why should Blacks be heard? They're 12% of the population.
Who the hell cares." -Rush Limbaugh

‘take that bone out of your nose and call me back.’
Rush Limbaugh
Source:Notable Quotables, mrc.org

Choice or Orgasms
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice
tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis,
Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or
multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?'
We all know what was chosen" (TV, Feb. 23, 1994).

Citizen Service
Citizen service is a repudiation of the principles upon which
our country was based. We are all here for ourselves." -

Condoms
"Condoms only work during the school year."

Drug Abuse
"And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs,
using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good
because we know what happens to people in societies and
neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if
people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought
to be accused and they ought to be convicted and
they ought to be sent up."

"When you strip it all away, Jerry Garcia
(former Grateful Dead guitarist) destroyed his life on
drugs. And yet he's being honored, like some godlike
figure. Our priorities are out of whack, folks."

(well ditto heads? I bet you still love this drug
addicted, law-breaking drug freek. Ever hear of 'just
say no' or how by buying drugs you are supporting
Osama?)

Earth
"The Earth's eco-system is not fragile."

Feminism
"Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive
women easier access to the mainstream of society."

Homeless
"One of the things I want to do before I die is conduct the
homeless olympics...the 10-metre shopping cart relay,
the dumpster dig, and the hop, skip, and trip."

Indians and VD
"I don't give a hoot that [Columbus] gave some Indians a
disease that they didn't have immunity against" (Ought to Be, p. 45).

Iraqi Prison Abuse
Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no different than what
happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we're going
to ruin people's lives over it and we're going to hamper
our military effort, and then we are going to really
hammer them because they had a good time. You know, these
people are being fired at every day. I'm talking about
people having a good time, these people, you ever heard
of emotional release? You of heard of need to blow some
steam off?
Rush's Radio Show 5-4-4

Jesse Jackson
‘have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted
criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?
Rush Limbaugh
Source:Notable Quotables, mrc.org

Michael J. Fox (Parkinson's disease)
"He is exaggerating the effects of the disease. He's
moving all around and shaking and it's purely an
act. . . . This is really shameless of
Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication
or he's acting. This is the only time I've ever seen
Michael J. Fox portray any of the symptoms of the
disease he has. He can barely control himself."
Rush Limbaugh
Source: Rush's Radio Show 10-24-06


Donovan McNabb
"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL.
The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well.
There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit
for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve."

Nuclear Arms Reduction
"The only way to reduce the number of nuclear weapons is to use them."

Owls
"If the owl can't adapt to the superiority of humans, screw it"
(Ought to Be, p. 162).

Sierra Club
"The Sierra Club wants to limit the number of kids you can have
to two. They are into power and controlling peoples lives."

Sexual Harassement
Sexual harassment at this work station will not be reported.
However...it will be graded!!!

Stuck
"Being stuck is a position few of us like. We want
something new but cannot let go of the old - old ideas,
beliefs, habits, even thoughts. We are out of
contact with our own genius. Sometimes we know
we are stuck; sometimes we don't. In both cases
we have to DO something."

"We have more trees in this country today than when
the Declaration of Independence was written. The wackos
will tell you that's impossible."

"There are more acres of forestland in America today
than when Columbus discovered the continent in 1492"


Rush Lies
1) Limbaugh: "Don't let the liberals deceive you into
believing that a decade of sustained growth without inflation
in America (in the '80s) resulted in a bigger gap between the
have and the have-nots. Figures compiled by the
Congressional Budget Office dispel that myth"
(Limbaugh, The Way Things Ought to Be, p. 70).
Reality: CBO numbers for after-tax incomes show that in
1980 the richest fifth of our country had eight times the
income of the poorest fifth. By 1989, the ratio was more
than 20-to-1.

2)Limbaugh: "The poorest people in America are better off
than the mainstream families of Europe" (radio, 1993).
Reality: The poorest 20 percent of Americans can purchase
an average of $5,433 worth of goods with their income.
Meanwhile, in Germany, the average person can purchase
$20,610 worth of goods; in France, $19,200;
in Britain, $16,730 (World Development Report 1994,
published by the World Bank).

Spexxvet 10-25-2006 04:15 PM

Nice compared to that?

Happy Monkey 10-25-2006 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad
UT's quick and dirty and unfair media political bias guide:
PHP Code:

LEFT<<-------------------------center------------------------>>RIGHT
         
^    ^    ^   ^     ^    ^  ^CNN            ^Fox  ^Right talk
         
|    `NPR |   |     |    ABC               NYPost  radio
         
`AirAm    |   `NBC  `AP
          LATimes  
`CBS       WaPost
                    NYTimes 


I'd knock ABC a few ticks to the right.

Flint 10-25-2006 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Damn that Liberal Media! :::shakes fists at unspecified mid-air location:::

rkzenrage 10-25-2006 07:54 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Posters/57.jpg

MaggieL 10-25-2006 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Yes, it sure is. If he went off his meds to make the point, then he is making a real sacrifice in hopes of helping people in the future.

Or to leverage his condition for maximum propiganda effect. Even during sworn testimony before Congress...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael J. Fox, in his book “Lucky Man”, 2002.
I had made a deliberate choice to appear before the subcommittee without medication. It seemed to me that this occasion demanded that my testimony about the effects of the disease and the urgency we as a community were feeling be seen as well as heard. For people who had never observed me in this kind of shape, the transformation must have been startling.


tw 10-25-2006 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Or to leverage his condition for maximum propiganda effect. Even during sworn testimony before Congress...

Amazing how MaggieL will argue to completely miss the fact. Rush Limbaugh lied. Rush Limbaugh knows about lying. He created a lie about Michael Fox knowing full well that it was only invented. Rush Limbaugh used speculation as a fact - as only political extremist would do.

MaggieL would have us argue over MaggieL speculations so that we ignore a bottom line fact: Rush Limbaugh stated - as fact - what was only speculation - personal bias.

What kind of speculation was it? It was based in a political agenda. A feeling is spun into fact. Classic 'big dic' thinking. And MaggieL endorses it. That goes to credibility, MaggieL.

Bottom line fact: Rush Limbaugh stated as fact what was only classic 'big dic' speculation. He felt something big in his pants; therefore it must be a fact. MaggieL hopes you forget the reality. Rush lied. Rush lied intentionally for a political agenda.

Happy Monkey 10-26-2006 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Or to leverage his condition for maximum propiganda effect. Even during sworn testimony before Congress...

What possible point could you be trying to make there? He went off the meds to make his point. He is wealthy enough to get the meds without problem. Not everybody is. There is no deceit there. The meds delay the inevitable. He will, even with the meds, eventually be that bad, and die. He sacrificed the benefit of the drugs, and probably some of his life, to make a serious point because his fame gives him a forum that is not available to most people in his situation.

mrnoodle 10-26-2006 01:25 AM

I was listening that day. And you're all full of shit. Now, back to the nipple thread.

His point was how liberals trot out sick people to parrot their talking points, hoping that the sick person will be held infallible because they have a disease. The idea is that if you are against making cloning a constitutional right, you must be against cures for disease. Conservatives want sick people to die.

Liberal media are the foulest batch of users and liars in the history of politics. All sides have done their share, but for pure evil, nothing beats em. Jesse Jackson doesn't want to empower blacks -- his paycheck comes from their misery. And around here, at least, blacks are sick of being told that they are second class humans who can't possibly succeed without the government to break their chains (to the tune of Amazing Grace of course).

Yeah. basically the idea is, they send out a sick person who says something. If you disagree with what is said, you are against life, health, and Michael J Fox. Fuck democrats and their sleaze.

Spexxvet 10-26-2006 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle
I was listening that day. And you're all full of shit. Now, back to the nipple thread.

His point was how liberals trot out sick people to parrot their talking points, hoping that the sick person will be held infallible because they have a disease. The idea is that if you are against making cloning a constitutional right, you must be against cures for disease. Conservatives want sick people to die.

Liberal media are the foulest batch of users and liars in the history of politics. All sides have done their share, but for pure evil, nothing beats em. Jesse Jackson doesn't want to empower blacks -- his paycheck comes from their misery. And around here, at least, blacks are sick of being told that they are second class humans who can't possibly succeed without the government to break their chains (to the tune of Amazing Grace of course).

Yeah. basically the idea is, they send out a sick person who says something. If you disagree with what is said, you are against life, health, and Michael J Fox. Fuck democrats and their sleaze.

Are you actually saying anyone on the left is worse than the hate spewing Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, savage, and the rest of that nasty crew? You are waaaay out of touch with reality.

Happy Monkey 10-26-2006 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle
His point was how liberals trot out sick people to parrot their talking points, hoping that the sick person will be held infallible because they have a disease.

And to make this point he claimed that Michael J. Fox wasn't really that sick.
Quote:

Liberal media are the foulest batch of users and liars in the history of politics. All sides have done their share, but for pure evil, nothing beats em.
The quotes that rkzenrage posted do, and those are just from Limbaugh.

Flint 10-26-2006 10:24 AM

The nastiness on both sides can be demonstrated. To believe that the "good guys" will save us from the "bad guys" while another group believes the same, but reversed, is a pointless ping-pong game. Wake up and reject them both. Vote independent. Vote third party. Vote "none of the above" when it comes to Democrats and Republicans: either of the two equals "more of the same" . . . there are no "good guys" in the two-party system.

glatt 10-26-2006 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint
Vote independent. Vote third party. Vote "none of the above" when it comes to Democrats and Republicans: either of the two equals "more of the same" . . . there are no "good guys" in the two-party system.

It's too late. A vote for a third party is a vote for the incumbents. The only way there will be any change right now is if you vote for the Democrats, and then only if they gain enough seats that they take congress. Then there will be gridlock, and it will put the brakes on the mess Bush & Co. has made of things recently.

A vote for a third party is a vote for more of the same. There are no viable third parties in this election. It's too late.

If you want a third party to get anywhere, you need to start looking toward an election in the future.

Flint 10-26-2006 10:52 AM

@glatt:
 
What you said applies to every election in the rigged system we have.
"You're throwing your vote away" is the voice of the two-party duopoly.

Voting in the "good guys" and then the "bad guys" get back in, and then you get the "good guys" back in, and then the "bad guys" muck it all up -
is that not throwing your vote away?! What do you ever get out of it? Nothing. More of the same. It's a false hope. It's a perpetual farce... . . .

I'm looking at the big picture, and it tells me: we have to start somewhere. If not now, then never.
There will never be a convenient time to reject a system which none of us, honestly, are happy with.

glatt 10-26-2006 11:01 AM

I think an independent or 3rd party really needs to get in on the local level. Once they have a local presence throughout the country, they will be able to take the step up to the big leagues. Vote independent locally all you like. I do.

Don't vote for an independent on the national level unless they have a shot to win. Otherwise you are throwing your vote away. Lieberman can pull it off, I'm not sure anyone else can.

Flint 10-26-2006 11:17 AM

Voting Democrat or Republican, successfully, can only result in something that pleases nobody, anyway, so... since your vote is "thrown away" no matter what you do, I propose that we actually vote our conscience, rather than submitting to the 2 horrible choices that are shoved in our face.

Shawnee123 10-26-2006 11:18 AM

I have to say I agree with glatt. I wish it were possible to overthrow the two party stranglehold with my vote nationally, but it is not. So, if my choice is to vote for the lesser of the two evils on the national level or risk 4 MORE YEARS of pure hell, I'm going to have to go with the lesser evil.

Not saying it doesn't suck, but this country can't endure much more.

Flint 10-26-2006 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123
...my choice is to vote for the lesser of the two evils on the national level or risk 4 MORE YEARS of pure hell...

Don't you see, this is what everybody is saying! Nobody actually wants the choices they give us, but we vote for them out of fear. Fear is not a good basis for decision making. We are being played against each other, and the net result is that there is no real choice for the voters. I know it would be like taking a leap of faith to opt out of the fixed system, and you will not see any instant results (other than the peace of mind that you voted your conscience) but the alternative is pre-determined, and a pre-determined election result is nothing to be proud of.

Undertoad 10-26-2006 11:34 AM

If you don't know who the third party choice is, chances are you're not voting for something you would actually want to choose.

If the party itself is not very sturdy, it may be taken over or cult-ized by exactly the people you don't want to have in any level of power. (see Reform Party, Pat Robertson nominee)


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