Cameras to read license plates on I-90
 

Hmmm, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.....White power capitol of North America.

What happens to the plate numbers scanned that don't match the "wanted list", stored or discarded?

No problem if you haven't done anything wrong, right? Unless they make a mistake, but you'd only be locked up in Cuba for a short time until they straighten it out. Look how smoothly the airports run.

Or they suddenly change the law to make your normal routine illegal. Check your plate against the list of permits for interstate travel? Do you have a permit to visit Aunt Edith?

Standard procedure to put the enforcement in place before making, or changing, the rules. But hell, who's going to Idaho anyway...I mean they certainly wouldn't do that around here, would they.

I'm just paranoid...nevermind....if you can't trust the government, who can you trust? Not to worry...move along, nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

Cameras are everywhere. Can't put that genie back in the bottle. :(

Gotta put one of those computer monitor privacy screens over the plate, so cops at ground level can see it fine, but cameras on poles can't.

That raises another question. What if they detect your car but can't read the plate? Automatic tank trap, hellfire missiles, rising bollards? :worried:

Come on, this is really starting to sink into heavy grade paranoia guys. The comments about interstate permits and the 1984 stuff is so outrageous it's funny. We are not a communist nation nor will we be (at least under this or next few presidents). I hate to ruin anyones day, but your licence plate is already in a database as being registered under your name (the owner of the car), so all this secret data mining paranoia is just stupid. Look at what this actually is without projecting your own private fears onto it.

You're a nice guy, 9th. When the revolution comes, I won't enjoy splitting your skull open.

I-90 in that part of the world is NOT exactly a bumper to bumper Interstate. I used to live in a town near this new project, and there are about a 1,000 back roads that can get you safely past the camera's. All they've done is to warn potential criminals to go over Lolo Pass, instead.

Unwarranted search, anyone?

What branch of the CIA do you work for, again? :thepain:

It's not about communism - an economic system. It's about authoritarianism. And *this* president has done everything he can to increase the power of the executive branch, making the position of POTUS more dictatorial. That's what you should worry about. But who needs habeus corpus, anyway?

I'm sure they just want to cross-reference the car's plate number with the chip in your arm that's transmitting your personal data. :rolleyes:

Has anyone read "The Transparent Society" by David Brin?

HE even has a secret court so that bench warrants can be issued for wire tapping. Even that was too restrictive for president Cheney who then wiretaps without judicial review. Why would he do that? Obvious. He wants a dictatorship.

I never thought Americans would stand for such threats. And yet so many even advocated torture, international kidnappings (extraordinary rendition), letting bin Laden go free, secret prisons, Guantanamo, Abu Ghriad, lie to 'Pearl Harbor' a sovereign nation, suspended legal action against so many companies (Enron, et al during Harvey Pitts tenure), the raping of CA during a mythical energy crisis, $450,000 campaign contributions to keep a 'potential 3 Mile Island' reactor going, the K Street project, called the Columbia an accident, attempted to destroy Hubble, 'Man to Mars' nonsense and other destructions of science, and suspension of Writ of Habeas Corpus. Reasons why this president is so scary is made obvious in The Cellar. Notice how many actually approve of 'these some of the most anti-American' actions. What makes president Cheney and the rest of the George Jr administration so scary are how so many even in the Cellar approved of these actions.

No, the cameras should not be a threat to anyone. However how can you blame others for being so paranoid? George Jr has been the most dangerous president since WWII - with only Nixon as the possible exception. I cannot think of any other presidents this dangerous to Americans which is why I cannot blame anyone for worrying.

Who else besides Tojo and president Cheney advocated 'Pearl Harbor'? Who else can shoot his friend, then run away before law enforcement can question him? Who else would issue massive no-bid contracts to his own company (Halliburton), have no guilt, and not investigated? So many have massive reasons to be paranoid.

I know, I know! The candyman can!

lol

c'mon, not even just a little?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Posters/34.jpg

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

So young, so naive. (whimsical sigh...)

You don't see the danger because you haven't experienced the incredible hassle when the government gets a hard-on for you. When some desk jockey misinterprets some (usually erroneous) information. You'd be surprised how much power is wielded by faceless clerks in windowless cubicles. The faces you see, are just doing their job and powerless to alter even obvious mistakes. At minimum, you've got to hire a lawyer.

Think about it, how much information could someone like Google, mine from a series of cameras on the interstates. Now take that power, that data, and sift it for suspicious scenarios.

You think I have too much imagination? I think you underestimate Fearless Fosdick's imagination.
Law enforcement/homeland security types spend their entire day wondering what they don't know. When presented with a system that will give them more information, they'll recognize, seize and milk it, in a New York minute.

I see this as one more can of Crisco on a long downhill run. :tinfoil:

Coeur d'Alene isn't the white power capitol of North America anymore. They drove out the Aryan Nations about five years ago and razed the Aryan Nations compound. I think the Aryan Nations resettled in Pennsylvania or somewhere.

However, North Idaho is packed with fiercely independent anti-government types, so I'm kind of surprised that surveillance like this would start there.





Where were you living, marichiko? I grew up in Sandpoint.

Is this ANPR or something new?
We've had ANPR for a couple of years now (BBC article from 2003) and I honestly haven't heard any wailing and gnashing of teeth. And this is in a country where people caught on speed camrea try to claim their basic rights have been denied because they didn't consent to the photograph of them breaking the law.

But then maybe it's not the same thing.

There you have it. It's a socialist trick.:D

Communism is far more of an authoritarian system than it is an economic one. In fact, one of the big reasons why it can't survive in its pure form is that it's the equvalent of economic suicide for the country (even China has had to back WAY off on its dealings with buisnesses and capitalism to stay powerful). The two extreems of the Left and Right are communism and fascism, both are run by dogmatic idealists with no regard for how things work in the real world. America is pretty protected from communism because we value individualism in our economic dealings. That's why, of the two, fascism is the one that radical Americans tend to edge toward.
Is the possibility of someone somewhere accidently inserting the wrong name into a form worth not going forward with this? Like marichiko said, this isn't a siphon point for monitoring all movement in the corridor because you can take the backroads if you REALLY want to avoid it. It's for catching people who either don't know they're there or don't take them into account.
btw, is the stuff about my comments being due to inexperience really necessary?

I still say a libertarian, democratic communist system would be the best of all of them... but nearly impossible to actually do.

I have to admit, I think it sometimes. But I'm pretty sure I never post it, and I find it irksome when I see it posted. (Maybe this makes me a hypocrite, or a coward?) I do disagree with you rather frequently, and have never been shy about saying so, but I would feel dickish to pin it on something like your chronological age. The whole point of the internet, to me, is to remove these superficial barriers between people.

Especially since democracy and communism do not actually occur together in real-world practice. This is why I've never remotely been a communist. I take this as a sign of intelligence (". . .if you're still a communist at forty, you have no brain.").

Read The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin. I didn't find it compelling enough to finish it (LeGuin usually isn't my cup of tea), but it is an indictment of the whole communist ethos, merely in its exposition of the kind of psychological conditioning its extremely communalist society needed merely to function. Communism is not for human beings -- and only approaches workability in an environment where possessions are extremely few.

Age, and relative experience of the world beyond the family and the neighborhood, very strongly influence how people think, and therefore how they speak. Persons with experience are likely to
know what they're talking about. Persons of inexperience... wellllll....

For a well-reasoned argument that communism and fascism are in their fundamentals both creatures of the Left, see the writings of Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn. They were competitors for aggrandized government controlling all things, not antitheses. Some say this is one reason they fought so bitterly, and a shame it was they couldn't both lose utterly.

Leftism Revisited, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

And I suppose Coeur d'Alene can go back to its fame in the piping world for hosting a major bagpipe seminar/school there every August.

You still don't get it, do you? This is not a one shot deal in the boonies of Idaho. It's the beginning of a coast to coast, border to border, network on every major roadway in the country. They'll be able to tell approximately where every car is most of the time. Where everyone goes and when. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned the information that could be mined from that data with high powered programs like Google has developed. Absolutely, I feel your comments reflect lack of experience with what happens to people the government takes notice of.
Don't feel special, however, you are not alone in that respect. ;)
Oh, it's got nothing to do with age, my mother is in the same group.

I don't care how old anyone is, you get snatched-up, roughed-up, by some pigs because they don't like how you look, and no other reason... you learn to KNOW how easy it is for them to take over.
It happened to me more than once.
Cops have long forgotten who they work for. They need a reminder.

UG, you may not have noticed this, but your link says that the Neoconservatives are Leftist. Not only that, he's also fiercely anti-war:

Maybe I'm all washed up here, but these things which, to some, seem harmless at first are like weeds that don't do much above ground until the have established a tough and deep taproot.

Consider ATM cards if you were banking as far back as the early 80's. The cards were free, you could use them to your heart's content anywhere, no fees regardless of balance, or bank at which they were used.

After cards became essential to people's day to day lifestyles, in creep the fees. I know plenty of marketing people who use similar strategies to get folks accustomed to a new paradigm, then habituated to it, then the rules change.

The same techniques are in place here. "It's just gonna be for this only."

Once it becomes so familiar as to be part of the psychological landscape, its uses can be expanded to support all manner of nefarious applications.

The travesty of it all is why use such sophisticated cameras to read license plates when they could be photographing Labrat's ass?

This is the perfect rebuttal, that I couldn't figure out how to state so eloquently, in a thread I've forgotten everything else about...

thanks. I forgot what we were talking aobut too.

Take heed and resist with all your might.


I guess most of you know that the UK is the most CCTV'd county in europe, if not the world. We've had number-plate recognition camera's and software for some years now, mostly operating out of Police camera vans. Then they put it into central London for the 'congestion charges'. Now the plan is to link all the CCTV's around the country into this system. For National Security reasons, of course..... and, if you

and if you have nothing to hide, why worry?

well, I'll tell you why.......


back in 1996 (yes, the software & camera's go that far back) I used to work in Manchester, and our office was just off a major motorway junction. I worked late one night (not unusual) and as I swung onto the motorway at that junction, I almost took off the outstretched arm of a young lady who was trying to hitch a lift ( pedestrians and hitchhikers are outlawed on UK motorways). I slammed the brakes on, swerved onto the hard-shoulder, and reversed back to the girl to check she was OK. Physically, she was unhurt, but a few moments conversation revealed that she was either high on something or somewhat mentally un-hinged. I advised her to go back to the roundabout and get off the motorway, and continued on my way home, resolved to call the police when I got home (this was before the days of affordable mobile (cellnet) phones in the UK).
However, when I got home, the current wife greeted me somewhat frostily, saying that Manchester police had called, suggesting that I had tried to pick up a young girl on the motorway, and would I call them back when I got in....

I did so, of course, and was greeted by the response 'so soon? you must have put your foot down on the way home' implying I had been speeding all the way home.

Eventually, the situation was sorted, but......

through no fault of mine, The Current Wife was led to have doubts of my fidelity....

T

Big Brother Blair's gotta keep his eye on you too, huh?

Blair has extended the coverage, surely, but it began back in Major's day.

However, the point stands..... even if you have nothing to hide ( as was my case) you can still be put 'on the spot' through no fault of your own by wild inuendo and mis-assumptions.

Resist the camera's and the thought-police behind them.

Welcome to Airstrip One.

Lived here all my life, Ibram.....

Yes, I know, that was more of a... metaphorical welcome....

well, metphorically speaking, thankyou....


And for the rest of you.... fiight those cameras!

(Winnie's necklaces have been a favourite response in the Uk)

Iowa DOT Cameras Show Traffic Patterns

This is my stomping grounds, and to be honest, I'm not sure that I care that there are cameras on me. Will I check the website to see if there are traffic delays? Eh, probably not. Murphy's law says that if I'm so busy at work that I'm going to be late to pick up my daughter, then there will be some dumbass who gonna make me even later. But, for anyone else out there traveling, beware!! It's gonna be slow going for another 1/2 decade, so do yourself (and me) a favor and reroute yourself. Thanks in advance. :rolleyes:

I highly doubt that the cameras will increase response time to an accident, since pretty much everyone has a cellphone in their car, and every time I have called to report what appeared to be a freash accident, the 911 operators already knew about it. I think that part of the report is just trying to make people feel better about being 'watched'.

What would be nice is to have them as proof in case of an accident as to exactly what happened, and who was responsible. But of course, I doubt the tapes would be admissable or available if you really needed them.

My opinion? They can't hurt, but I'm not sure how much they'll help.

BWA ha ha ha ha !!!


I missed this before, but, see above, they now can!!!


HA ha ha ha !!!

This is standard procedure around Philly. They are not the license plate reading cameras but regular TV cameras watching sections of all the major roadways.

The TV News shows, morning and evening on all the channels have a traffic guy that gets more airtime than the weather guy. They'll cut to him every few minutes at a big board that shows the traffic patterns, the speeds, any accidents, fires or tie ups.

Then they will show the traffic on some of the cameras that are owned by PADoT. Usually they will show at least one of the five bridges coming from New Jersey.

They also give numbers like I-95 North from the Delaware line to Philly Airport, or the Blue Route(I-476) from the Sure-kill (Schuylkill) Expressway down to I-95, will take so many minutes.

It would have to be an accident pretty far out from the city to use the helicopter any more.

You drive like an ass?

To those trusting misguided naive souls who believe that this will not lead to abuse
 

I love that phrase, Jay. It's so, so wrong. Here's an example from the current events page. :eyebrow: :eek:

Abuse, highlighted in bold by me.

That is what we say to the government.