How to be a Bully.....online?
 

I certainly get accused of it enough.( and UT lately ) I generally don't bother to argue about it. But, as i think about it, I can't seem to decide what it is about what I say or the way I say it that makes it 'bullying'. It kind of bothers me.

I've asked jinx, and one other person. jinx shrugs and shakes her head. she doesn't get it either. The other person(left nameless unless they decide otherwise) says that it's because I don't mind telling someone about themself, in a funny way, without apology, and that somehow influences others to share my opinion, which (I guess I could see) makes the person feel outnumbered and bullied.

But the usage of the label 'Bully' implies intent. I can't honestly say whether or not i have 'intent to bully'. Not consciously, i think. When i pick on someone, it's in response to something they say to me or someone else. I've never gone out of my way and initiated anything out of the blue.

I know what that's like.....Dagney. ;)

So, help me out. If you think I'm a bully or a jerk, I'd like to know why. Specifically. I promise I won't hold it against you. sigh.

..........It strikes me as i close this, that this is a bit attention whorish. well, surprise, we're all like that a little bit. It's just that I've tried not to turn the conversation in this direction in the middle of a discussion about something else, everytime someone calls me (or UT) a bully.

I never thought of you as a bully but rather as someone who isn't afraid to speak his mind, doesn't pull punches, and doesn't really worry too much about what others think of him. I mean you work at a car dealership fer crissakes.

Just a little frisky in a pugilistic sort of way, but not a bully. You don't wait for dwellars in the virtual stairway and then pounce on them and pummel the shit out them.

So, no, I don't think you're a bully.

@ footfoot A flamer can be discriminating or not. :p Believe me I know. I used to flame at will :rattat:
No, I don't think he is waiting to flame just about anyone and he dosn't but the fact is there was someone who 'felt bullied' so I relate my answer to the problem of mari.

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My first real response would have been to make a sarcastic remark and tease you about appearing humble but I don't want to be disrespectful to a genuine and sincere question so I won't.

When I think of bullying it involves slander and libel. Defamation of character of one person in a community. We don't stand in our employee break rooms and defame someones reputation so the idea is perhaps we shouldn't defame people online either.

A bully usually goes beyond the ordinary troll and flame. It involves implying you have special information on a person that someone else dosn't have. We are practically strangers on the net and all things being equal there is just so much you can presume to know about a person via text so when we start connecting dots that may or may not have any basis in reality we could be called a bully, or a cyber bully.

I looked up some definitions of 'online bullying or cyber bully' and this is what I found to support my thoughts about it.

Do these definitions describe online bullying? To me they do.

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilre...yberspace.html

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes an express or implied factual claim that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions provide legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to punish various kinds of defamation.
Libel & Defamation in the Information Age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

The Internet is an informal forum and people often write personal things
about other users, but you can be held accountable in court for making
libelous or defamatory remarks in public forums just like Hardwick was.

Anybody can sue you for libel or defamation if they think you damaged
their reputation, but if you can prove what you say is true, chances are
that you won't end up in court.

"Make it clear when you are stating your opinion," says Donaldson,
"Always state the facts that your opinions are based on just to be safe.
You probably won't lose a libel or defamation lawsuit if you can back up
what you write with solid facts."

[edit- I was trying to be analytical about it and went a little overboard. 'scuse me:blush: ]

LJ, I don't think you're a bully, but I do think you find at least some moderate entertainment in people getting whipped into a frenzy, even if they're mostly whipping themselves.

You don't usually pour gasoline on the proverbial fire, but you rarely reach for the extinguisher, either. "Bully" doesn't describe it, but perhaps "insensitive" - at times - does.

My .02, and yes, I still love you, you big hunka lumbercock, ya.

i don't think you are a bully. i do consider you to be a certified, grade a shit-stirrer. i don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. you tend to very bluntly post what many others think and that is followed up with a whole lot of "me-to's" which can activate the defense mechanisms of many who are looking to be victims.
i usually find humor in your posts though.

Substitute "bossy" for "bully/ing" above and that could be me talking, so I feel a pang of sympathy for you LJ.
I think we are both very direct in what we say and the way we say it. I think you like to "get a rise" out of people and then pursue it to see how far it'll run, perhaps out of disbelief that they get so aerated about what you're saying. I think you enjoy playing to the gallery, too, so once there is an audience to your bating of a person, you are spurred on to greater efforts.
I like to wind people up, too but this is usually not so much in the form of personal attack (this is how many of your posts appear to me, LJ), but by leg-pulling, so this behaviour of mine is a little removed from my "bossy" persona. Maybe that's how I get away with it and you don't, LJ? I'd still rather not be seen as "bossy" and the only way around it that I can think of is to warn people that I don't mean to be bossy even when I appear to be so - doesn't work all that well unfortunately :( .

I think part of the deal is that Tony feels the need to hold back a bit, so you get a little protective of our man. You are part of the bare knuckles atmosphere here, which is, frankly, what makes us charming. It can look like bullying when folks have not been paying close attention.

I do think you're a bully LJ, but maybe that's because I don't find you funny.

I do think you're cruel to people sometimes. The problem I see with you is that your humour is closely related to your malice and so, what might be intended to be funny to some, is hurtful to others. Sometimes not even your intended 'victim'. Someone who didn't relish in seeing others squirming wouldn't do that, and therefor couldn't be considered a bully.

As to you protecting your man, if that's the case and you're saying the things UT doesn't say for the sake of propriety, then that makes you nothing better than 'hired help'.

Anyway, you asked for opinions and that's mine. I don't suppose you expected to have all positive replies did you?

i didn't say that. griff did.

i think this is part of the problem. the perpetuation of the meme through reference made by others.

so, ali, what you're saying is that because you don't find me funny, it just seems malicious? is it possible that because you percieve me as malicious, you don't find me funny? i could see that. and your point about collateral damage to those that witness a drubbing of someone that they identify with is well taken. thank you.

uote:



Originally Posted by Aliantha

As to you protecting your man, if that's the case and you're saying the things UT doesn't say for the sake of propriety, then that makes you nothing better than 'hired help'.



i didn't say that. griff did.


I know you didn't say that, and that's why I said, 'if that's the case', because you hadn't yet responded to the post.

Jim, if you look at "bullying" in the context of, say, the fifth grade, you're dealing with kids who are mandated to be in a certain place at a certain time, all together. They have no choice. I can give you specific a list of assholes that I would have avoided at all cost if I hadn't been forced to go to school with them.

This is not school. Anybody is free to leave. Anybody is free to not read what someone else has written. Anybody is free to use the handy "ignore" function. Our parents (and the state) aren't making us show up here at 8:00 every morning.

So, while I don't want to seem callous, it's beyond me how anybody can feel "bullied" in an environment where it's so easy to avoid a person altogether.

That's my take on it. I'm not going to get into judging specific posts or behavior with specific people. It's obvious that personal vendettas can develop here, with or without justification. I choose not to take sides in the ones that don't involve me.

so...you're trying to start shit between me and Griff? that's not very nice.

not all of us are so free. my addiction is a disease. i blame my disease on all of you. if you weren't all so damned clever and interesting I'd be free from my disease. where is JOhn Edwards when you need him, i think i've got a case here.

About your second response, I think there's a big difference in what some people percieve as humour and what others see as nastiness.

I guess all humour has its roots in satire, but maybe I just prefer more subtle forms of it and that's why I find your overt and explicit comments rather base.

I think the difference between funny and being a bully is that if even the intended victim can see the humour then it's harmless, but the minute you're getting amusment out of someone else's pain, discomfort or sadness...even anger, then from what i know of bullying, that makes you a bully.

I'm not trying to start shit between you and anyone. My response was reasonable.

that was a joke. i guess you weren't shitting me when you said you don't find me funny.

Nope, I was being honest as always.

change the catpion to "EVERRUDE" , thats LJ ( no offence dude ) , he's a ShitStirer from WAAAAY back !!!:rolleyes:

( oh and incace you didn't know Evinrude is a boat motor mnfg )

I think the primary distinction is the role humor plays in the interaction. Someone who's "just a jerk" will get mad and call you names, someone who's a "bully" will make fun of you and what's more, genuinely make you feel inferior (i.e., be successful at what they set out to do.) At any rate, I think you're funny, not a bully, because you take just as well as you give and you're really an equal-opportunity teaser, you've made fun of almost everyone at one time or another.

At any rate, I did a search for the word bully just to get a general idea on some things, and meanwhile compiled this interesting collection of stats:

--marichiko has called wolf and the US a bully multiple times, but never LJ
--Cheyenne and Lady Sidhe also agreed that wolf is a bully, but FileNotFound said "We really don't care if Wolf is being a bully."
--xoxoxoBruce believes Urbane Guerrilla is a bully, but that UT "has never been" one.
--Tonchi agrees that Urbane Guerrilla is a bully, but Carbonated Brains disagrees with Bruce and believes UT is one.
--mrnoodle says police officers are bullies.
--George W. Bush and the US have received the most number of votes by far, including marichiko, DanaC, Radar, iamthewalrus109, joemama, ScottSolomon, hermit22, jaguar, Elspode, and tw
--tw also believes, however, that North Korea and tailgaters are bullies, and jaguar also extends the courtesy to Microsoft
--John Bolton, sycamore, Whit, and bmwmcaw also got labeled by Hippikos, FelinesAreFine, TasneemProject, and yesman065, respectively.
--headsplice and Cam both agree that Shaquille O'Neal is a huge bully



And in conclusion, this exchange between lumberjim and Undertoad pretty much sums it up:


LJ: "IT'S TRUE. I was a dick. I used to be a bit of a bully in jr high. i've mellowed since. i havent been in an actual fight since i was 12 yrs old."
UT: "YOU WERE THE KID WHO BEAT ME UP IN SIXTH GRADE!!! Fuck you man!!! How have you redeemed your self!!!"
LJ: "i have redeemed myself. I saved several dorks from certain beatings in high school. One kid named Forest in particular. A kid named sean that was all covered in muscle was going to beat him up for being prissy. i had but to ask him nicely not to as a favor to me. Forest was very grateful. Then, Irony took over. several years later, my girlfriend in college cheated on me with Forest. Feel better?"
UT: "Phew! That was close!"

inherent problem with word searches.

LJ's no bully.

A bully picks on people even after they say "uncle." Bullies are afraid of real opponents and steer clear of battles they stand even a remote chance of losing. Bullies never fight for principles. Bullies are basically 800 pound chickens looking for somebody to sit on.

None of those fit LJ.

A couple of names there I thought I wouldn't read on the cellar again.

Entertaining read, Clod. Thanks for extracting that data. :)

LJ, I use to think you were a shit stirrer...but I tend to think that you aren't truly "trying" to stir shit...you can't help yourself. It's like an addiction, isn't it? That's my theory, anyway. I find myself laughing at much of what you say, but I look behind me in shame to make sure nobody was reading what I laughed about thinking "You sick bitch."

I don't think LJ is a bully. He does some harrassing, but usually he's just having fun with people - like a cat batting around a mouse. He's crude, caustic, and cynical, and he says "cunt". Some of these traits make him less than cuddly and lovable, but not a bully.

Most people who are called bullies on-line are those who do not invest emotions into a disagreement.
If you have one side arguing and another just disagreeing, the side that is simply dealing in facts and ignoring the emotional side will be called a bully every time, and that is false.
A bully is someone who harms with intent.
As for humor, since acting was my major and we spent a lot of time dealing with the subject and I read a great deal about it... all of it is based in some form of sadism.
You cannot show or tell me on joke that someone, even the teller themselves, is not the brunt of the joke in some form or fashion.
So, if one person is joking, it is only a matter of degree, as far as how much of a "bully" they are being compared to the next person joking around.
The fact is, we disagree in here and each of us has a different way of expressing our sides... if you don't like the way one person does it... leave them alone. It is very simple.

Most of you men are answering the question from an emotional perspective. You are saying you 'like the guy'

The question is he a bully? Does he intimidate?Does he use flamatory language against another? Does it enrage and or hurt another person?
Does he humiliate or shame a user? Does he try to expose supposed truths to a community by using hate speach to create conflict?

Can you say yes to any of those questions without getting your ass kissing in the way? Stop candy coating it. Like him if you want. Think he is funny if you want but stop trying to protect his feelings. He wants to be a kinder softer brute.

For me the sign of bullying is when a fairly large group start picking on someone in a fairly merciless way, long past the point when it has become apparent that their victim cannot handle it. It's that mob mentality that disturbs me, rather than any one individual post/poster.

Well, seeing as how I am mostly a lurker, I feel I can objective. But I could be wrong... so bear with me.

I don't think LJ is a bully. He can be somewhat callous, but I don't think he does any of it to hurt others. He will cry bullshit on anyone he thinks deserves it, for various reasons. I see bullies as those that hurt others for no reason just to feel better about themselves.

If someone is playing the "poor me" card (or is just full of it), he will call them on it. That doesn't mean he is a bully. I think it sometimes makes me post better because I know if I am being a dumbass I will get called on it, which is a good thing to me. And he is a equal oppurtunity teaser which to me means that he doesn't single out certain people unless they do the same stuff time and time again. That isn't his fault.

Also, if he calls bullshit on someone, they take it personal and then keep saying how "LJ hates me" which just drags the arguement on and they usually try to make LJ out to be the bad guy. But I haven't been subjected to his teasing much since I don't post things that could be construed as full of bullshit or something similar. At least I do my best not to. :blush:

sky, i never said i wanted to be kinder or softer. I didn't say i wanted to change who i am. i just want to understand what specific reason some of you have for labeling me as a bully. maybe i'm just stuck on the word. i fully admit to occasionally being rude, and caustic, and maybe even a little mean sometimes. the whole bully thing involes fear, though. why would you be afraid of me?

You've mentioned exposing unknown truths as a form of bullying. could you elaborate on that? particularly, what makes it bullying?

I find myself agreeing with Rzkenrage (that seems to be happening a lot lately ;) ).

My SO says that all humor is at someone's expense. There is no joke if there is no target. And yet, most people do enjoy humor and they laugh at jokes. We all have our areas of 'tetchiness', topics that trip our trigger, and obviously we'll find jokes about those topics much less funny than those that don't hit home.

I feel that humor makes the transition to bullying/meaness when it is overdone...goes too far, so to speak. Laughing at someone who has tripped can be funny, but continuing to make fun of them, imitate them, telling everyone you meet about their mishap, bringing it up whenever you see them...is NOT funny. This humor has crossed the line into maliciousness.

I am constantly reminding my son (18) not to take his humor too far. He is hilarious but he doesn't know when to stop. He doesn't recognize when his joke has become hurtful or painful to witness. I'm sure this is partly due to his lack of maturity.

Blah blah blah..so anyway, I don't get the feeling that LJ is a bully or mean. I've not been around all that long, but what I have seen, he is someone who isn't afraid to cut through the BS or speak his mind.

Stormie

RE:why would you be afraid of me?

No I am not afraid of you. I just don't want to fight. Do I not want to say what I really want to say for worry of being called a name? yes.

Do you call any of the guys names?? I don't recall.

RE: exposing unknown truths as a form of bullying.

I said
I am refering to the co 2 poisoning and someother things Mari has said that you all have been trying to debunk. I know you are not alone in that thinking so excuse me for singling you out when others are just as quilty. As you say you can be meaner about it. Your word is respected so you can bring a persons character down on a message board if you want. You carry alot of weight so you should be more careful how you approach a matter? The difference between having tact and not?


Believe me I can be tactless but I am learning I think. Certain kinds of dry sacrasim which might be funny in real life dosn't translate in print so well. I can empathize but I would never single one person out for name calling and story telling in an effort to make them look like a lier even if they were.


{edited for spelling. In a hurry got to go to work}
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@ Clod.....Your story cracked me up! :lol2:

actually, i was referring to this part:

i'm missing the leap from a to b

did you write that, or was it clipped from one of your links? (sorry, i'm a shit about following links)

LJ, stop bullying Sky;)

LJ is just farking funny!

You cannot make another person feel anything, we choose our reactions.

i think you missed the point some of the guys have made. A) we kind of like the prick. er, i mean guy. B) if he's a bully, he's not bad enough for me to notice or care.

every last cellarite has said something i find annoying or outrageous at some point (well, maybe not tw.) but i choose to ignore the stuff that is annoying to me and pay attention to what interests me.

google : slander,libel, defamation, bully, psychological abuse,intimidation and see if you do any of those? Look for facts instead of peoples feelings?

It's mine and others perception that you are a shit stirrer. You lie or at least eggagerate the offenses of those you are attacking. See above.


I was looking up slander and libel. To understand why some of us call you a bully that would be the reason but since you don't want to change I doubt you will understand and frankly I just don't care any more. You are tiresome.

I am wondering why you posted in different colors the same as anonymous did. Is anonymous you? It must be I got two people posting in coded color for me which I find wierd. I pm anonymous and ask who they are and they say they are 'batman' wtf???? :confused: Must be you jumberjim.

This is my last post to you.

jingle bells batman smells robin layed an eggagerate

Thanks. I agree with your addition.
I usually feel like most of my contributions are just ignored.

no, not me. i didnt send any pm's with the anon login. the colors i used were to point out 2 different points in the post, with out having to chop it all up.

i did see your reply when i changed the user title from 'online bully' to 'obvious'. i assumed it was she who is no longer here.

you seem like you're too angry to bother giving an objective answer. well, whatever. maybe you're just not all that nice. thanks for playing

lol :)

and yet, this smacks of flint

I'm not mad at you Lumberjim. Your being qute decent since I asked you to. Thanks.:comfort:

I wasn't aware that pointing out the obvious was considered bullying.

OWWW! Stop it, wolf! Meanie!

*trying out profile sig ONLY*

What, do you have finals or something and are trying to study? You have hardly stopped in at all over the last two weeks.

May God have mercy on my soul...

:D

I am not a bitch. I am THE Bitch.

nice but you forgot...
 

:eek:

times like this make me wish we used avatars here.


I'm In UR thread!

Mari's use of the anon account to defend herself means, what, really?

It means one more IP address range to add to the IP banning table.

It also indicates multiple dialup accounts with multiple providers, and enough money, memory and skills to transfer use between them.

in the context that i posted that, i was just saying that if you search for the word 'bully', you may miss a description of bullying, and further, that when cross linking for your stats, it fails to consider the use of alternate logins. wasn't really a comment on her use of anon to defend her position.

no, she's a victim! poor thing. she can't even work. why are you so mean?[/dripping with sarcasm]

I really wanted to remain neutral on whats her name...

Did I spell Ur wrong?

i don't think it matters. the mouse handwriting more than makes up for it.