Shooting at Virginia Tech
 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...wsbreaking-hed

21 people dead. :(

Oh my god! How do these things happen? America should ban the guns from people.

If one other person on the campus had a gun and could have defended themselves, the outcome would have likely been very different.

Schools, including colleges and universities, are already designated "gun free zones."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Vi..._Tech_shooting

There isn’t a lot of information on it yet. The number of dead has increased to 32.

This is really scary, especially for me since I live on a big campus and if there is a shooting, they will take out so many people and there is no where to hide since the campus is so open.

Another thing is that there isn’t much you can do to prevent this. Not all people that are sick mentally don't receive help and a lot of times if someone says something, other people will ignore it as a strive for attention or because they don't know what to do or they think they aren't going to do anything. For example, my roommate first semester was very unstable so I know how it is.

I hope the best for everyone on that campus. Something like this will live with the students, friends, and families forever. Some kid’s lives will be ruined because they will not be able to keep up with their classes and others will just be mentally scarred for life.

This is a true tragedy and I feel for everyone that was affected by this.

You don't singlehandedly kill 32 people armed with only sticks and rocks. :mad:

It's just horrible. :sniff:

OK...flame me now.

Nope. Fertilizer, fuel oil, and a rental truck do a much better job.

(is this really the time to go into a gun control debate?)

I was just taking my opportunity when it arose. I certainly don't want to debate anyone, because I know how that goes here in the cellar, but it seems to me that a mass shooting is the PERFECT time to debate guns....I mean, after all, shootings are accomplished with (wait for it...) guns, are they not? :rolleyes:

Sheesh. :thumb:

Oh fine, fine.

Why is the knee-jerk reaction in these situations to render people defenseless instead of the other way around?

I'm a knee-jerk kind of girl.

Seriously, I do see what you are saying about the other way around. It's reality whether I like it or not. If I had my druthers...but I don't.

I know we all agree it's a horrible tragedy, and I'll stop there before I say something really stupid!

Peace to all.

Just because you own a gun, does not mean you know what the hell to do during a shoot out.

Do you know if all students who were killed, injured, or in the vicinity of the killer were unarmed? Get back to me on that, K?

"Could have". One other person would have to not only own a gun, but be packing heat, have the presence of mind to identify the killer as a threat, so as to not kill an innocent college student, AND have the mental strength to murder someone. If only...

Not surprisingly, this situation has been a topic of conversation at work. Admittedly, we don't have a lot of information, but it would appear that the shooter basically lined people up and started shooting them one by one ... why didn't anyone try to rush the shooter?

If you're in the same situation ... first person gets shot, it's a surprise, it's unexpected, even if the shooter tells you that's what he's intending. After the next one or three ... the rest of the folks should start to understand that they have little to lose by trying to do something. If you do NOTHING, you do get shot, and die. If you rush the guy (especially with enough people) you might get shot ... and with a smaller likelihood of being killed.

What makes people choose to do nothing, when nothing is clearly going to result in your death?

(note: I have never had to rush an armed gunman, but I have had to tackle folks armed with screwdrivers, belts, and small appliances.)

Fear. People inherently never believe that they will die, and rushing towards a mad guy who has already shot several people is almost guaranteed to get you shot, and probably killed, so human nature says, stay back, and stay alive - even if this is a hopeless position.

i'd rush the shooter right behing you wolf! promise, now rush!

Damn. That shit's insane.

VTech admissions will probably drop 100% or so, won't it?

99% of the people in the world are sheep. Until the first person sacks-up and does something nobody else will even think about it.

In a state of panic I doubt many people would think to do something. I bet in that situation I would curl into a ball in the corner somewhere.

Having been in enough severe situations where immediate actions were 'required', I know exactly what I would think if lined up to be shot. I would be completely mystified why I did not solve it or averted it somehow. Only once can I remember anyone who paniced during an event.

Wolf, bluesdave is right, this people are probably only 20 years old if younger. I personally am not scared of death but I am the minority, and I am not 100% sure I would rush the attacker unless I knew other people were behind me. I know many people my age that would probably help rush the attacker but I know many many more that wouldn't in fear of getting shot or dying plus the situation was probably so chaotic no one had a chance to rush the shooter. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were still the minority in rushing the shooter at your age but I am not sure.

Also, unless you are more informed than me (this is not sarcasm), we have no idea what really happened and what the situation was. They could have been lined up in a way that resulted them in not being able to rush the attacker.

I find the "blame the victim" line of reasoning misplaced.

Shoot, I'm 19 and I am anticipating the rest of my life eagerly, I don't want to get die now, not at all. I'd be scared shitless if this happened at Illinois. I actually can't honestly say I'd do one thing or the other. Because what happened at VTech today is out of this world and I can't even imagine experiencing anything remotely like it. Inside a campus building? 32 people dead? This is supposed to be a safe environment of academia, that situation is just so outrageous I would feel like it is actually a movie or something unbelievable like that.

I'm sure we'll hear more over the week. We know that some did fight back.

The whole thing is gut wrenching and depressing. Completely destroyed my day to catch the news as this happened. Has me rethinking a lot, too.

I started digging through Wikipedia on school violence and found this interesting bit of history I'd never heard of, before:

Forty-five people killed in bombings at a school, most of the victims in grades second through sixth, by a man upset that taxes had been levied in order to fund its construction. He even loaded a car with every conceivable piece of jagged scrap metal he could find before parking it in front of the school and detonating the bomb inside. The year? Not as recent as you might think.

So shocking. My heart goes out to the family and friends of all the victims along with the family of the shooter. How must they be feeling now.

You point the gun at the bad-guy and pull the fucking trigger.
Whew, that sure was hard!:eyebrow:

What if the bad guy is a mate of yours who's lost his head for whatever reason? Don't you think that in a closed environment like a college campus, it would be hard to make a call like that, especially if you're young and scared out of your brain.

Who is doing that? And how?

I am really so very sorry for all of the victims in this tragedy.

I did find myself wondering while watching the news, where are all the guns we hear about, if this young man went about the killing without being at least challenged by another person with a weapon. Although never having lived in an armed society I honestly don't know if I could have pulled a weapon on another human being.

I hope all of the people involved get the help and support they need to get through this.

I am not looking to start a pro-gun/ban gun debate but I just want to here the personal expierences from the pro-gunners.

First, do any of you know of anyone personally that has protected his or herself with a handgun (emphasis on handgun)?

If not but know of someone that you don't know personally, please explain.

Second, since most times you have protect yourself at short range, what do you think the difference between a gun and a very powerful stun gun shaped like handgun that can also mark the victim in some way?

You don't consider this even slightly over simplified? You're telling me that when they hand a guard, police officer, or solider a gun they could do nothing more than simply include the instructions "1. Point at bad guy. 2. Pull Trigger"? There's nothing more to it than that? No emotional aspects, no panic control, no training on how to handle high pressure life and death situations, no efforts required to concentrate as people around you lay bleeding to death? "Mental clarity" is not how even the most experienced officer would describe their thoughts during something like the VT situation and it completely evaporates in people who are going about their everyday business and are suddenly thrown into shock by events that they come closest to only in the worst of nightmares and cheap Jerry Bruckheimer flicks.

Just "pull the fucking trigger". Right.

Sadly enough, my CCW test didn't even go that far. It included absolutely nothing more than "show me how to make the weapon safe". Drop magazine, lock open the slide, check chamber, lay on counter. "You passed, you're done, go enjoy the range." That, plus a photograph, a money order, and 90 days does not make one ready for situations even remotely similar to what happened yesterday.

You've been registered here since October, but maybe you missed this thread on this very topic two months ago.

They said on the news this morning that he left a note expressing anger towards rich people. :(

Yes, no shots were fired. I know three people that were in attempted robberies, and one attempted car jacking. All thwarted by the potential victim pulling a gun and protecting themselves. FBI statistics state that the majority of handgun exchanges take place within 15 feet.

My fiance was once at a gas station when a large, enraged customer attacked an attendant. Being a brave former-military dude, he intervened to try and subdue the attacker. He managed to help until police arrived, but when he told me about it that evening, I was mad. The guy could have had a knife. I don't want to lose someone I love, and neither does his family at home.

Sure, it's easy to imagine throwing yourself on a grenade, or starting an epic shootout with a crazed gunman. But most of us have people counting on us who would really rather that we played it safe. How would you feel if you'd been putting your kid through college, only to have him get himself killed trying to be a hero? The choices that people make in moments of extreme stress like that are extremely difficult and emotionally loaded. It isn't fair to try to pass judgement on them.

Really? Where are you, where is the bad guy, what's behind him and the wall behind him, do you have cover or concealment, are you really in mortal danger as defined by your state, did you retreat sufficiently to satisfy the law, he's not retreating is he, did you leave the coffee pot on, where's your son, is he in the ball pit behind the guy, is that a gun or a wallet in his hand, is he alone or does he have other people working with him, who is behind you, can you draw without getting his attention and allowing him to shoot first, you're under pressure and you have less than 2 seconds to make a decision and it has to be exactly the right one

Damn Commie.

If a person wants to maximize the effect of their rage, they will find a way. If there is nothing available to help them do so, they will create it...they do it in prison all the time.

I understand why some folks think guns should be banned after an event like this...but such a thing doesn't solve the real problem--the criminal.

Guy lives through hell and how does he finally go? Some nutjob kid with a pistol.

Well, Dr. Atkins died from slipping and hitting his head...

I thought he had a heart attack.

He apparently had a heart attack a year before he died.

but I find a valid appeal for control. If multiple round automatic handgun clips are less available, perhaps the shooter will turn to a more time consuming, cumbersome method. And I can't help but spin an alternative to the trained packing student taking the shooter out- what about a slew of cops not knowing who the real shooter is?

Chris Rock has a method. From I think his shows Bigger & Blacker or Never Scared, he goes like instead of banning guns, you just make the bullets cost $1000 each. Funny skit, and intriguing idea.

Here's a link to the shooter's violent plays posted by the AOL employee and student there:

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/...ng-huis-plays/

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/young-...6696869631.html

It gets worse.

whilst I understand your angst, might I remind you that only 33 dead would be considered a good day in Bagdhad?

This isn't Baghdad. This is the first world technologically advanced industrialized United States of America, the most powerful, influential, and "greatest" nation in modern times. Again, the largest US massacre by a single gunman. There is no anarchy, no social upheaval, no war torn sectors. This is the free world. And the incident is a damn serious one.

I just wonder about these shooters. I think some people are born--bad. Off. Psycopathic.

Some of the roots of such can be traced to the parents, but not all, I think. I do think we need better support for teenagers in our culture.

Of course it is. And I'm sure the mothers in your country grieve that much harder than the mothers in Bagdhad.

I think it's sick how all the newsies have flocked to VT like crows to a corpse.

That is crap. A determined individual, as this person seems to have been, will get the guns, the clips, whatever to do the job. Certainly you do not think this was not premeditative?

America not only needs to get rid of the guns but it needs to put a stop to it's culture of violence. Why is it in america violent crime is so rampant and out of control?

Cool idea. So when are you going to advocate the elimination of the Penis so we can put an end to HIV/AIDS or the removal of all cars to stop drunk drivers. No greater act for the masses eh?:rolleyes:

Am I the only one who has noticed that CNN seems disappointed that there are few if any calls for more gun laws?

I suppose you can do it your way which is nothing and pretend there is no problem. :rolleyes:

I really do believe that people should be held responsible for thier actions. Yes, you are correct. Or we could just go the way of some Nazi approach and confiscate all guns, that approach would still not work.

Damm! the Liberal press disappointed, I think I may lose sleep! Ok, not really.:D

Wait a minute. Get rid of guns? Culture of violence?

In my opinion, those two statements are absolutely ridiculous, no offense. If we got rid of guns, what can we resort to for defense? Martial arts, or ICBMs? And culture of violence? What culture doesn't have violence deeply rooted into it's history.

It works in many parts of the world. I come from a place where the average person can not run down to a gun shop and buy a bunch of guns yet the crime rate is low and the people are free.

WOW. Evil America! BAD!


http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...m?id=823982006

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?...5&id=740682003

http://dvc.org.uk/dunblane/ni.html

But it's rampant in america. You can't watch the news without reports of somebody being robbed at gunpoint or shot for their car etc.