The Israelis must be happy...
 

...the Palestinians are killing each other.

Fatah is now pretty much conceding the Gaza Strip to Hamas, meaning that we have a "two state solution" where one of the states is yet another Iran-sponsored terroristic Islamic state. The EU stopped funding the Pals when Hamas was elected, but they'll be fine now, somebody else stepped in:

This won't go well.

From MSNBC: The United States strengthened its offer of support for President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday, telling him an international aid embargo against the Palestinians would end as soon as he forms a new government without Hamas, aides to Abbas and a Western diplomat said.

The Palestinians knew that electing Hamas would probably result in general ugliness. I think I understand why they did it, but they still knew the consequences.

The easiest solution, IMO, would have been for Fatah--backed by Israel and the US--to wipe out Hamas in Gaza. Of course, that too would have had some serious consequences down the line.

I dunno...sometimes, I think Abbas could be tougher. But given the general ugliness over there, maybe he's made the best moves he can.

Well, if the Gaza strip contingent is going to survive, I guess Hamas and Egypt are going to have to be new best friends. Israel has cut off its border with Gaza, and the rest of the world is not going to be excited about helping out a terrorist backed group. The entire situation looks very bleak to me. And stupid.

Iran is giving Hamas millions of dollars. I doubt folding those dollars into paper airplanes will be much of a threat to anyone, if they wear their glasses to keep from getting their eye poked out. I also doubt the dollars have much nutritional value.
This money has to be converted into bread and bullets, that's the key. Who is trading with Hamas. Who is suppling the means to not only survive, but wage war?

Well, they've been smuggling weapons across the border from Egypt, so some of Iran's money is going to something other than paper airplanes.

OK, Egypt. Who else?

Supposedly Hamas is going to try to be more accepting and perform actions that do best for the country. For example, they didn't want to take over Gaza but they did it to end the civil war in the area.

Tough to prove them wrong but doubtful...

I just saw a headline, "Israel praises Hamas-free cabinet", and it dawned on me that this maybe what's needed to bring peace to the Israelis and Palestinians.... a common enemy.

I reckon that's more wishful thinking that a likely outcome Bruce.

Personally, I suspect Jordan.

I don't think that is going to work. I believe that a lot of Palestinians do want peace even if it is to ally with Israel I don't know if having Hamas as the common enemy will work.

I can not be certain but you have to know what the majority of Palestinians don't like to know how to gain peace. If the Palestininas blame the violence created by Hamas and Fatah on Isreal, that will not work. If they blame the violence on Hamas and Fatah alone, then it may.

Welcome to what the knowledgeable were warning of when George Jr's administration called for Palestinian elections. Widespread were the warning that Israel had made Fatah too unpopular; that Hamas would become the new power broker. As usual, moderates who used facts and reality were correct. George Jr's political agenda again creates instability, refugees, and the death of innocent people.

Let's see. Saddam was on the verge of falling in Iraq. Instead George Jr created this massive Iraqi civil war. American surrogates in Somalia have now restored violence in Mogadishu and restarted another flood of refugees. Because the mental midget said "Americans don't do nation building", now the Taliban have now taken back half of Afghanistan. Insurgents even in southern Thailand have now learned why explosive technology as a terrorist weapon will make them more powerful (George Jr will also call then Al Qaeda?). Nuclear non-proliferation treaty is being trashed so that George Jr can sell India more nuclear bomb material - making it necessary even for Turkey to start a nuclear weapons program. Russia is now warming of a new Cold War because of so many unilateral and threatening actions by Pres Cheney (no wonder he wanted a war with China over a silly spy plane).

Palestine is only another tip of the George Jr iceberg to promote war and instability all over the world. Even democracy and western influence is waning in S America because of these same George Jr 'political agendas". Now wonder the only round of international trade talks to fail (the Doha round) occurred when an MBA George Jr (and wacko extremist Cheney) were in power. Even Castro now has become more popular throughout the world.

Meanwhile, when do we go after bin Laden? bin Laden is not part of a Cheney political agenda - America be damned - contempt for the American soldier blatant. Palestine is but another example of what George Jr's administration promoted and advocated - even when warned by intelligent people of these consequences.

Like you respect the American soldier or American foreign policy this decade or any other, tw?

Like hell you do, kiddo. We know you don't.

All our greatest human troubles spring from the world's non-democracies. No non-democracies, then darn few problems, let alone great troubles.

You have to look deeper than that if you want to find why they have troubles.

I don't think so. Democracies behave much better than un-democracies, and they always have -- that's the fundamental thing. The rest is just specific details. Read some history. Then read some more history. A lot of history is the bad behavior of governments and the nations they govern. You don't even have to cover the whole globe, though that breadth of reading will make you well rounded (pun!) -- Europe alone will provide sufficient examples, and so will the Old Testament if you don't want to read ten feet of books.

A nondemocratic government is always at least over-controlling, and even more often, oppressive also, without regard for either human rights or property rights, to a greater or lesser degree, and in about every imaginable mix. The result is that investment and wealth creation languish, the economy underperforms, and misery prevails, particularly so if you lump "lost opportunities" under "misery." This is that 85% of all problems being traceable to top management that tw is always on about.

When the population of a nation is all pretty much miserable, scapegoating foreign entities, outsiders, usually by the central government, is preferable from the government's point of view to being seen itself as the source of miseries. Not any too surprising, is it? And look what's likely to happen then -- and it does, doesn't it? Do not the Arab States attack Israel? Are not these same States well-known examples of not much property rights (going back centuries if not millenia) and miserably underperforming economies and chronic incapability? Do they practice creativity in policymaking, or is uncreativeness the universal situation?

I wasn't talking about comparing democratic countries to non-democratic countries but what goes behind the scenes. Nowadays, there are states, puppet states, and rebellious states. The states are the democracies you are talking about and the others are usually the chaotic states. What I was looking for is the relation between the three groups.

I think you miss something important if you don't compare and contrast the democracies with the nondemocracies.

And I give no credence whatsoever to conspiratorial cabals, particularly huge international ones that pull the puppet strings on everything. This kind of romanticism stumbles in that it attributes to malice what is more simply explained by stupidity -- temporary or permanent, it matters little to the turns of history.

"Conspiratorial cabals" are what enable people that are already stupid, even if it's just by believing they exist and are blessing their acts.

I know the huge differences between democracies and non-democracies but it is very hard to deny the control first-world nations put on third-world nations.

For example, Israel controls Gaza's water, electricity, and food (more or less). This behind the scenes work is what is fueling the fire in Palestine.

When I say that the US should get out of the middle-east, paramount to that statement is our removal from anything to do with this conflict and Israel, other than business.
And that whole relationship needs to be changed, our trade with them needs to be EQUAL or none at all.
No military trade, involvement.

Yep. Arabs and Persians are doing the same in Iraq.

Figures.