Homeschoolers are criminals
 

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Let the sparks fly.:corn:

The State owns your children.

There are some days when they could have them

The family is appealing, Arnold is all pissed off, and the HSLDA is scrambling to have the decision depublished and become involved in the appeal. I'm optimistic at this point. Absolutely ridiculous though.

train children in loyalty to the state? Fah!

No fucking way I would ever send my children to a public school. No fucking way. I refuse to indoctrinate my children into this sick, depraved culture.

If I can afford to send my children to a Montesorri school by the time they reach that age, then that would be an option.

Public school is not an option. I would break this law without a second thought, if necessary. They would have to take me by force.

While it's been on the books in California for decades, up until now the law has been almost completely unenforced. I bet there's something screwed up with this family where they needed an excuse to get the kids out of there.

Do you know what they do to drummers in jail? :thepain:

I put my boy in a private school. The local school district would not allow me to transport my kid to the school of my choice. After he was beat up by two other children, I told the school district I wanted him in another school. They told me where he would go...I told them where they could go.

I went mostly to public schools, and I turned out okay, didn't i?

There are a lot of quality public schools, but when your local school is awful you need all the options. We've run into a cluster of really nice homeschooled kids from York, PA through fencing. Their folks are to be commended not remanded. I see it as a diversity question. So much in our society trains people not to take responsibility for themselves, when people do we should support them.

Eh, he'd be fine if the rhythm was interesting.

I agree, we moved to a particular area because of the quality of the public school system. If school is an important aspect of your priorities then the family and parents need to make whatever sacrifices are required to get them the best education they can. As long as if you are going to send your kids to private school or homeschool the public tax dollars are not paying for it, I say do what is best for you and your kids. I think they should have some tax break for the costs for people who homeschool.

My sis homeschooled her 4 little ones until middle school. The oldest 3 are in college, the youngest graduates high school this year. I wish I had her patience and ability. She did a great job home schooling them. At first I thought her kids would turn out to be social morons, but they are the most normal kids I know.

My sis-in-law started homeschooling last year after the teacher made fun of my nephew in front of the entire class for being a slow reader. She complained, they banned her from coming to the school, so she withdrew her 2 kids. I really thought she would suck at being a teacher since when she stayed home with them as pre-schoolers she would just plop them in front of the tv. But now that she has a mission (to educate) she does great with them. Turns out my nephew was even farther behind in school then they thought; the public school was just letting him pass through. He's 12 and reads at an 9 year old level because no one would help him, they'd just give him Cs and let him go to the next grade.

I don't think the family in the article did anything wrong to have this law enforced (I'm purely speculating) but probably they pissed someone off.

I'm torn on this. My inner skeptic keeps popping up and saying the family must have been doing something to draw this negative attention. Right now I'm listening to a radio program talking about this case and they're not saying anything to suggest the family was problematic.

On the broader subject of homeschooling and I'm still torn.

I fully support the family's right to keep the kids home and teach them in the manner that they wish. They are our children and we have the obligation to care for them to the best of our abilities. For some kids and some parents I can see where keeping them home would be the best choice. I think a system of evaluating the education needs to be in place though, to ensure that the kids really are being educated at least to the level of their public school counterparts.

On the other hand I have two cousins who were homeschooled. They are complete and utter tools. You couldn't find two more socially inept people if you tried. Strike that. Their mom is a Prozac horror story and their dad could be the poster child for the dangers of weed. Homeschooling isn't to blame for my cousins' idiocy, but they do make me think we need something in place to evaluate homeschool kids and their ability to learn in that environment.

But are they well-educated tools? Can we guarantee that if they had attended public schools, or private schools for that matter, they would not now be tools?

Here's what I've heard

No, toolage can never be guaranteed.

I think kids should be homeschooled after elementary school. They'll learn all the social interaction stuff they need; and then when they start to go crazy from hormones, peer pressure, and media hype, they can be kept close. Under guard.

:)

And you could just chain them to the bed or the pipe in the closet.

hey, great idea!

snip~"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare,"~snip

Oh geez. This is extreme.

"Good citizenship"-good.
"Patriotism"-good.
"Loyalty to the State and Nation"-good.
"Protecting the public welfare"-good.
"Primary purpose"- not so good.
"Train school children"- not so good.


*cough* nazi *cough*



I've watched a close friend home-school for a long time. She's been really successful at it but I see how everyone might not be. Testing the kids to make sure they are at average level once a year seems fair.....If not, they can study harder...no biggy. The state wants to own your kids..which they do, but why be so in your face about it? "We have to give them their training!!!" "Buahahahaaa!!" Sounds kind of sardonic.

I'm not sure if I had a kid that I would want them taking a part in a system that has their training all worked out. It's an itty-bitty kid that likes to stick stuff in it's mouth..not a soldier. (yet)

Train is just another word for teach.

If a school has another primary purpose besides teaching, they're probably not a good school.

yea...Train is usually an accepted synonym of teach...But in this context I don't think it's ok. The whole thing sounds militant...different kind of training there..

I think you're being a bit paranoid actually. Swap the word train for 'teach', and then substitute primary purpose for 'goal' and you've got the exact same meaning with a softer approach.

Perhaps it does look 'militant' to use your word, but on the other hand, perhaps it was written by someone who takes the social responsibilities of education very seriously.

Chastity belts anyone??

You don't replace words with law. Sorry. I'm not paranoid to see the poltics behind these actions and exactly where that judge stands. It's just the truth....oooh paranoia..plbbbt. Kids and their families don't need to be caught up in her politics and it's actually the judge's paranoia affecting society not mine.

Don't call me paranoid because a judge is rash...

Yes, and schools aren't supposed to take the place of good parenting, but sometimes the only good influence kids have on their lives are school teachers and other government run organizations.

From what I can see, it's likely the judge knows the parents aren't bringing the kids up to be valuable, socially conscious adults. If the judge is giving the parents a lecture on the fact that they've failed in their duty as parents, then I think she should use wording which is as strong and 'militant' as she likes.

Whether the ultimate ruling is wrong or illegal is not for me to say. Maybe you should have 'snipped' a bit more of the statement if it's so easily taken out of context.

My best friend is a damb fine teacher and her son is getting a great education! Does the judge know how brilliant my friend's son is turning out to be? He was born gifted and that was enhanced by his mother that made her son's education the first priority in her life. She is raising her son as valuable because he is valuable...I wish someone had taken that great of care with my education so I could have better jobs than content editing judge's opinions for law books.

Sometimes the only good influence in kids lives are the parents too...It doesn't work only in one way.

The judge is not talking about your friend's child. She's talking about a different family who it would seem, do not take great care of their children.

I don't really have an opinion either way on homeschooling. I do however believe that some parents are not suitable candidates for homeschool teachers.

some parents are not suitable candidates for parenthood.

Tod: You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.

technically speaking, no.

Sadly, the government can't do anything about who pops you out, just how you get educated.

If she weren't using that family as a measure for home-schoolers all over California there wouldn't be a problem.

Yes....Home-schooling isn't for everyone.

Some public school teachers are not suitable teachers either. btw

No shit? Some private school teachers aren't much chop either.

The difference is that there's currently no way to determin if a parent is doing a good job of homeschooling or not (from what I can tell in this case). At least with teachers there are some alternatives.

Yes...there is a way to determine...Testing the kids to see if they are at the standard level for their grade is a good enough measure I think! Like I said before...They get the same testing standards that public school students get and that should be sufficient!

My sweetheart tested out two grades above public school students in their area. Top percentile!!! I bet he know lots more that they didn't test...I just love that kid...
:)

I'm sure it varies by state, but in the state where I homeschool, standardized testing is required in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grades for all students. I chose to give my 3rd grader a different (much shorter) test than the PS kids though (CAT vs PSSA).

When I say my sweetheart...That doesn't mean it's my kid...Not only would I be a horrible teacher, I would be a horrible parent....he's a sweetheart because he wasn't raised by me! lol!!!
:)
I don't want to give anyone the impression I have kids!

See look...jinxy home-schools..Do we need a better advertisement for it?!? People always want to talk about it when it fails...No one wants to discuss the success stories.

This is interesting...how they do in college...
http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/newsletter/issue61b.htm

Wait a minute. Jinx is a TEACHER!?

If you, rather than the state, gives the test, how does the state know the kid actually did it?

Actually, a parent can't give the test, has to be someone else - a grandmother in our case.

That isn't very reassuring, that people can't and don't beat the system, put in place to insure the kids aren't getting the short end of the stick.

I think the evaluation of the child's portfolio at the end of each year is a much better indicator of which end of the stick they're getting.

I think if the right person is doing the homeschooling than it can be a very rewarding experience for all involved. However, if someone is doing it for the wrong reasons then the children lose out HUGE. I know this from firsthand experience. It's like anything else in life, if someone wants to cheat the system they can and typically do.

Properly done, homeschooled children are some of the smartest, most thoughtful & productive - so say the numbers. Problem is as more "extremists" start doing it for "alternate" reasons, they are bringing down the curve.

Ain't that the truth. There is a DVD rental you can get called Jesus Camp. That touches on some of it. I have known a few people who HS, and my hat goes off to them. I don't have the quality to do it. Their kids were smarter than most of the kids their own grade. On the other hand, I have known some really religious kids that were HS for religious reasons and they were wacked out weird. To each his own.

Pop quiz:Now what famous orator coined this phrase?
:D


I agree, there are some home educators that bring down the bar. But I have also seen it work. Home-schooling shouldn't have anything to do with religion or the fanatics, which is why home-schooling can be difficult for people that aren't completely insane. Trying to develop a play-group without a fundamentalist and their kids showing up is probably difficult.
:D

Why? they do it every Sunday and Wed. It's called church. :D

I can see how this can be used as a tool of indoctrination to ensure loyalty to the state.

Look education is a education, the law should intervene if there is a problem. If parents are doing a good job and their children are pass the standerized test I fail to see the problem.

If the problem lays within parents not truly qualified to teach why isn't there a fast track for patent teachers to get a certification for being a home school teacher.

All public school students take a loyalty pledge to the state as their first activity, every morning.

"...and to the Republic for which it stands..."

I am pretty sure most of them have stopped. Ours has. Now they have become so PC so we don't hurt anyone's feelings. And there is zero room for common sense in the decision making.

No, they don't.

At ours they do. I don't know if they force you to do it, or if my kids are just conformists. Or both.

I understand that some schools that do can be pretty militant......with teachers having differing views on whether foreigners should/may join in or not :eek: thank goodnes they don't at ours.

they used to make us do it at my school in the states. i refused and got yelled at every single morning until my teacher finally just decided it wasnt worth the effort and gave up.

we used to have to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the Lord's Prayer, AND sing My Country Tis of Thee every morning. That was at a private school, though.

We not only said it all the way up through junior high, but in 8th grade I was the Seargeant-at-Arms on the student council, whose only actual job was to recite the pledge over the PA system every single morning for the students to follow along with.

You see, to an outsider, that seems a far cry from a land of free people... just sayin'....

I stopped saying it sometime in junior high. You are free to refuse to say it, just as you are free to refuse public schooling altogether...