Discipline of the Boobie Variety
 

Ok Cellar mamas and papas… those of you who are or have breastfed your little munchkins… hopefully you can help. And I need help soon or it will be the professional variety I’ll be seeking.

I need our 14 month old to do the following:
Sleep through the night in his own bed in the kid’s room (Morgi our 2 year old and Flintsy share a room at present)
Eat people food and drink people drinks… ween from the boob ASAP
Be ok shopping and staying seated in the cart regardless who is pushing
Be happy to be held by others even if I’m in the room
Quit being such a damn winy butt head. (He literally butts his head against me wining to get his way)


Flintsy, our son, is a boobie baby through and through. His love affair with the boobie began early on… he would never take a bottle even with breast milk. This as you can imagine, made it impossible for me to leave him with people. Fortunately, he is beginning to take a few sips here and there from sippy cups, but not really drinking much. He won’t accept a sippy cup if he is really thirsty… only boobie. If he is hurt or upset… only boobie fixes it. I’m a damn human pacifier. I realize that is in so many ways my fault and I’m not looking for finger pointing, just solutions going forward.

Flintsy has never really eaten food despite many daily attempts from the time he was about 6 months old. He never would eat baby food… not homemade or store bought. Around 10 months he began to accept some finger foods if you allowed him to self feed, but even to this day at 14 months he only snacks... he won't eat enough to "fill up". It is as though he is “saving room” for boobie. He literally chases me around demanding milk.

He screams as if he is being murdered if I'm around and someone else is holding him and he can see me or if we are shopping and he is in the cart instead of my arms... and he practically leaps out of their lap or the cart twisting out of the lap belt and tries to scratch my shirt off to get at the boob.

At night he wakes every 1-2 hours and screams so loud he can be heard from the front yard. He won't settle back to sleep without being nursed. No matter what I've tried. And I’ve tried:
Rocking him,
just putting him back in the bed over and over with no attention,
giving him a sippy cup,
a lovie,
giving him teething tablets and Tylenol... benadryl actually hypes him up,
on weekends my husband (FLINT) has tried responding to him but the anger just escalates,
we’ve tried driving around (which clearly I'm not going to do every hour)

Keep in mind... he sleeps in the same room as Morgi, so I really can't (and wouldn't even if he wasn't sharing with sister) be able to let him cry it out... even with me trying to sooth him without nursing he just screams endlessly until I give him the boob. One night our joint effort to get him back to bed without nursing literally went on 6 hours. Papa Flint has to be up at 5 am and drives an hour with non stop driving at about 80 miles an hour to be at his work by 7:30 am and as a result needs to sleep and needs our son to be quieted by me... there is nowhere to go in the house where the screaming can't be heard. I can't ask Flint to sleep somewhere else and I can't ask for his help at night. So the catch is… I need to be able to resolve this myself without help from others. The only thing that keeps him some what satisfied would be to let him sleep with us and nurse when he wants, but even then he screams in his sleep sometimes and pushes us out of bed because he is hot.

I am at my wits end… and need suggestions (NOT JUDGEMENT… I am perfectly capable of beating myself up over all this and believe me I do constantly) on what I could try to get him to sleep through the night in his own bed and ween him. I’ve considered building a rabbit hutch in the back yard, but apparently the authorities frown on that… I’m kidding, but seriously you can no doubt feel my level of aggrivation. HE is literally driving me insane. As sweet as the night time snuggling is I'm developing a love hate relationship and that just makes my heart hurt. I find myself snapping and yelling at everyone more and more because I’m so frustrated, sleep deprived and sore. Surely running away or taking a bottle of sleeping pills isn’t the only solution (again… I’m kidding, but…). He is a super cute, funny little guy and has been my favorite person in the world these 14 months, but for his sake and my sake and well... the whole family's sake ... his dietary requirements, night time rituals and discipline needs to be handled more effectively than I’ve handled him to date apparently.

Well, one thing I would say might help you come up with a specific-to-your-needs solution is to get into his way of seeing the world a little bit more. I found Penelope Leach's books immensely helpful in getting me to see the world from an infant's perspective. Once you understand where they are coming from it makes it a lot easier for you to develop relevant strategies.

What worked for us won't necessarily work for you. We co-slept so the Dowas were always there, my wife nursed on demand with both kids and we noticed that if they even get a hint of un-availability of the Dowas it can send them into panic, real panic, that there might be a "run on the bank" so to speak. "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." and "Familiarity breeds contempt."

Not likely that he'd hold them in contempt, but I bet he'll relax if he feels they are always there whenever he wants them for as long as he wants them and he is smart enough to know when you are trying to fob off some substitute.

We did have some success when the Inch was begining weaning at about 3 I think with a cup of warm milk to which I added some vanilla, a dash of molasses and a spoon of maple syrup. It hit the spot and he was pretty happy.

I think the key to remember is: kids aren't convenient, generally speaking, and it helps your sanity to try to see the world from their perspective as much as possible. (Though I did lull the inch to sleep with the following subliminal suggestions when he was an infant: "Convenient babies are nine times more likely to survive than inconvenient babies. Inconvient babies are nine times more likey to be left in snow drifts than convenient babies." Until my wife made me stop.

I cannot recommend Penelope Leach's books highly enough. And in rereading your post I might consult his pediatrician.

I'm probably gonna come off like a boob nazi, and definitely not tell you what you want to here.... but...
Babies have needs. If their needs aren't met they don't just go away. It seems like forever now, but it really is such a short time... 14 mos is young to wean, especially if he's not into it at all. The more you push him away the more clingy and frightened he's going to become.
Sleep/nurse with him in one bed, let Flint get the sleep he needs in another. Wean the baby when he's more ready.

"Their wants are their needs"

The problem is he wants to eat every 2 hours at minimum... and I can't take it... he seems to think he needs a boob in his mouth to sleep... that isn't normal or healthy. He needs more food. If he was nursing an appropriate amount for a 14 month old I'd be fine with it... but he isn't and he is unable to fall asleep without me. The pedi didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with him... suggested he be allowed to fall asleep on his own.... which is fine except he doesn't.

With our kids, the baby food like rice cereal is what my wife would use to fill them up before bed time so they could sleep through the night. At that age, anyway.

I know you said he won't eat baby food, but maybe you could try the rice cereal, prepared with a little breast milk?

It's my only idea. Basically, you need to fill that tummy before bed time.

Srsly, go get Penelope Leach's book,
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Baby-Chil.../dp/0375700005

Read it. I guarantee you will love it. If not, I promise I'll never post a picture of my boobs on teh celalr.

Do you think there's something wrong with him?
Honestly I don't think anything sounds wrong with what he's doing. My daughter didn't have anything but breast milk until she was 11 mos... she def wasn't eating much at 14 mos. My sisters twins are the same age and still up nursing all night, the boy more than the girl...
When you nurse at night do you get up/sit up/turn on the lights etc... or do you just roll into place and sleep thru it?

What/how often does he eat during the day?

I can't offer any advice except to say - don't be too hard on yourself Pooka.
At least Dwellars here can help you put it in perspective, it sounds like other people have been leading you to believe you have done something wrong when you haven't.

Good luck.

The Pedi said he is basically using me as a pacifier... I am his lovie essentially. She said there is nothing I can do to make him eat... he will eat when he is ready , but that at a year breast milk will not be enough... and that he should not be nursing more than every 5- 6 hours. He has associated nursing with sleep and as a result when he wakes as we all do periodically throughout the night he think he needs to nurse to go back to sleep.

During the day I feed breakfast with whole milk, a mid morning snack with watered down juice, lunch, a mid afternoon snack, and dinner we all eat when Papa gets home. He picks a little at everything. Honestly though our girl doesn't eat much more, but she does drink alot. She weaned herself at 15 months. I've started just putting a few pieces on his plate because it was suggested that he might be overwhelmed by the amount the Pedi thinks he should eat... but he doesn't even eat the smaller portion. I would take him two days to drink 4 oz of anything. The Pedi said her son was the same way and that if I wait to nurse him until after he has been offered food he is more likely to eat more. Everyone in the family thinks I should just quit nursing him like today... but that seems unreasonable. I am pretty ready to be done with it though... when I just got his mouth off my left boob there were teeth indentions from him holding on and gnawing ... thus the sore boobies.

At night I've usually put him in his bed and when he woke up sat in the dark in the glider and nursed while rocking and repeated this until around 3 am when I just cave and bring him back to bed.

He did sleep with us until Flint blew up about it and I realized that my husband needed me too...

The irritating part of this is that Flintsy was sleeping through the night in his bed better than he ever did in ours as recently as December, but we all got nasty respi viruses and then tummy bugs and coming out of all that we have our present situation. Prior to that he was ok with other folks... he has always hated shopping though.

I don't have much family help at the moment. My mother lives in Houston and the only available party in Flint's family is unavailable after dark... she will absolutely not watch the kids at night.

I will look into that book … thank you for the suggestion... you are welcome to post boob pics if you want though…. I did… tee hehe

To clarify: I didn't want him to develop the habit of sleeping 6 inches away from mama because I thought...well, that this is exactly what would happen. That it would be even more difficult to get him sleeping in his own bed, the longer we waited. Or, conversely, he might never learn to sleep on his own and be one of those kids that sleeps with their parents until they are 10-15 years old.

Our daughter, by comparison, never could sleep well in our bed, or even in the same room, and although there were difficult times when we had to settle her multiple times, she never had this thought that her goal was to wear you down until you just brought her back to bed with you. Our son, he expects that, because that is, in his experience thus far, the way things should be done.

I also feel like I should somehow be able to contribute more in this endeavor, but I literally fall asleep at the wheel multiple times every morning (during my hour-long drive down rural highways) and snap back to attention when I hit the bumps on the side of the road. Luckily for me, there is a center median, or I would probably have drifted headfirst into an 18-wheeler by now. And that really doesn't help the family.

Honey... I know that... and I'm not at all saying you should be doing more... you DO need to sleep... and the family loosing you to a car accident would be far far far worse than the challange we are faced with now.

Unless of course you can have multiple days off in a row... or work from home or go in late....

I'm explaining to the people that don't live with us.

we're not judging either of you.

Ditto the advice to just keep on keepin' on. I nursed my son till he was 2 1/2, and there were indeed days he wanted it every 2 hours. One day he and I just had a little talk and I said that this might be a good time to quit. He agreed, and that was that.

He never took a bottle. Never. Did drink from a cup around 15 months or so. Slept with us, or one of us. We had a very casual attitude about sleep. I don't see what the big deal is, personally. Why does it matter where you sleep, as long as you sleep? We'd sleep all over the house. Son in bed with me, hubby in bed with then-4-5 year old daughter, or on the couch, or wherever. My daughter when she was a baby went through a phase when she could only sleep laying on top of one of us on the couch!

Then we transitioned to having mom or dad lay down with them in bed till they fell asleep, then leaving. By the time they were 7 or so, bedtime was a pretty normal sleep-in-own-bed bedtime.

YMMV, but I just didn't think this was a battle worth fighting. Bedtime isn't the only time for giving your spouse some attention. :)

Show of hands ... who thought this thread was going to be about something else?

(Actually, I was, a little. But just in my head. And I think Jinx might have been too. And we all know Sundae's feelings about kids right out of the gate... But for the most part, we weren't judging.)

Flint, they aren't gonna want to stay next to mom forever. After a very short time they start to want to explore their independence. They will demand their own bed. They are also easily confounded with a bit of slight of hand. They act like they know what is going on, but they really have no clue.

It's easy to fool them into thinking that their own bed is some special, off limits thing that they must be kept from. You will have them in tears, begging to have their own bed, but timing is everything. If you try to force it and it becomes a test of wills, you will lose even if you win.

Remember diplomacy is the art of telling a man to go to hell in such a way that he is looking forward to making the trip. It's the same with kids.

But you do need your sleep and the road ain't the place for it, even if Juniper insists "Why does it matter where you sleep, as long as you sleep?"

Try nursing in one spot all the time (or as much as possible). Try having some aromatherapy such a lavender in that room, as well as music.
In a week or two, try sitting with him with a sippy cup first, Show him the cup, encourage him to drink from it, telling him what a big boy he is, then nursing, a week later, try suggesting more sippy cup, tell him he is such a big boy drinking from the cup. Try making the cup special, maybe get him to pick one out from the store....

Eventually the scent, the relaxing atmosphere, the cup and encouragement should get him to want to wean off, or at least be less demanding. If its in the same place all the time, he might be less likely to be as demanding when not in that room...

It worked for one of mine. She is an adult now, and still likes lavender in her room, and goes to sleep with music on.

Nah, I kind of had a feeling it was about nursing since it was in the "parenting" section and not behind the curtains in the back of the quality images section.

Thought or hoped?

When my daughter was 4 mo old, my milk supply started to dry up. Luckily, she was already used to the bottle because she went to daycare. By 6 mo she was completely weaned from the boob. I was hoping to make it to a year.

What if you simulated this same scenerio by pumping before feeding? A little at first, then gradually more at a time. This way when the milk is gone but he is still hungry, you can offer him some cereal (prepped with pumped milk), fruit, whatever. Hopefully he will then associate "real" food with the feeling of satiety, instead of only breast milk.

The trick will be to make sure you don't let him shorten the time between feedings though, or this will just backfire. Eventually, you should be able to stretch that out so that you actually get a full nights sleep.

Good Luck.

Well, yeah. Anywhere besides there. :rolleyes:

My littlest girl went through something very similar. My oldest two were easy and weaned pretty painlessly, almost on their own, because they forgot to nurse and by the time they remembered, my milk was gone. My littlest, though, she was just as you describe... NEEDED to nurse to fall asleep, nursed for comfort, wouldn't take a bottle, got all of her liquid from the boob, basically. She didn't start sleeping through the night until she was almost four, and she would wake up numerous times throughout the night.

I honestly don't know what to tell you except that patience and time will get you through it. I don't remember how I made it through with my baby... that time is largely a blur. We did end up putting a twin-size bed next to our bed so that, while she had her own sleeping space, I was still present and didn't have to go far to nurse her at night. She's impossible to sleep with... head-buts and kicks and sleeps sideways, and is a noisy sleeper.

In time, she started to understand that other people have boundaries. That's one of the hardest things for kids to learn... that Mama is a whole other person and her body belongs to her... but it's very important. I know it's very popular these days to give breasts cutely little names for the kids to use and I feel that it encourages children to think of them as being a possession that is separate from their mother's bodies, and that can lead to difficulty in weaning, especially if you wean later, because the child perceives that yo are taking away something that belongs to them. Personally I have found that if you are always clear that your breasts are part of your body, and that sometimes nursing is uncomfortable or that you do not always feel like nursing, as the child gets older and starts to recognize their own boundaries, it's easier to accept.

I also recommend never letting your baby hurt you. If they bite, say "OW that hurts mama!" and remove the boob. If you are getting sore, tell your baby that you are sore from nursing so much and, you need a break... not the boobies, but YOU. Building boundaries, and being aware that your breasts are part of you and that you have feelings, are an important developmental step.

It sounds like your son is thirsty, and using you for a drinking fountain. I don't know what kinds of beverages you serve, but if you usually give milk, try instead having water on offer constantly. My youngest would not drink milk from a cup, but she did drink water, and once she developed a taste for it her nursing reduced tremendously. Try giving water with something that increases thirst, like bread, cheese, or even cookies, and see if in time he starts taking more water and nursing less.

He's still really little, and for many babies it's simply normal for them to nurse this much at this age... most of my tips are for weaning an older baby, but they might help you as time goes on. The hard part is getting through this stage intact! Doctors will tell you what's "average", but you have to take that with a grain of salt... just because the "average" baby nurses less and sleeps more doesn't make it at all abnormal for your baby to nurse more and wake up more!

Some parents are concerned that giving water instead of milk will compromise their baby's nutrition. If your child is over a year old, I would not worry about that at all. If he starts drinking water instead of nursing to satisfy his thirst, he will also start eating more because he'll be hungrier without the milk satisfying his nutritional needs.

Above all, take the best care of yourself that you can, and try not to feel guilty about your frustration or feelings of anger. It's normal and OK to feel that way, you just need to find ways to make this easier on both of you, whether it's adapting your life to met his needs, or trying new methods to coax him to change his habits.

Not fair!
I have no idea how to wean children, don't pretend to and have no judgements stated or hidden re Pooka's situation. My opinions on the behaviour of children start when they reach school age.

(I think that was the joke, SG. Folks like you and me have little advice and even less knowledge to offer!)
I was reading this thread out of curiosity as to what people's responses would be. Again, the Cellar is full of useful, helpful people. In this situation, I am not one of them. :lol:

I guess what it comes down to is that Flint and I want the kids in bed at a regular time and want to have adult time together... alone. That is what we want and need on a personal level… to unwind and relax. Flint from his work stress and me from my kid stress. Considering Flintsy was sleeping better than ever in his own bed not that long ago... he can get there again... (I'd be ok with the occasional every 2 hour day but don't want it to be status quo... and I don't think it is good for him either) I'm just not sure how to help him get there. We do not want to resort to breaking our backs by sleeping on the couch.

I understand where Flintsy is coming from... when he wasn't feeling good I was with him 24/7 and had boobie available at all times because he was vomiting and having trouble breathing... just trying to keep food in him and help him feel better because he was so miserable. I’m sure he thought it was nice having so much attention from Mama and so much boobie (who can blame him) and as we were sick for a month he grew to expect that... so when we were all better he wanted to continue, but the rest of us are ready to got back to life as usual. They say it takes 30 days to make a habit and 100 days to brake one. I just don't have 100 days to break this. That’s the help I need...

I should point out that he sleeps in his toddler bed for naps just fine... and wakes and continues to play in his room until I open his door… when he rejoins his sister at whatever activity we happen to be involved in… usually lunch. So, there is no reason he couldn't do it at night ... the problem is soothing himself at night when he wakes up... he wants boobie to sooth him because this is what he thinks he has to have to go to sleep… but he doesn’t as he proved months ago.

I need... FOR ME... to have him nurse less... and I feel pretty confident that once he is nursing a more reasonable amount and eating and drink more real food he will be less winy and clingy again...he needs it and I need it for my sanity... so I can be a better parent... and wife and person... without it... I am literally going to loose my mind. I rarely ask for much for myself... but this is something I really need at this point in my life.

Bottom line. Flint and I agree it is time for Flintsy to go back to his bed and sooth himself to sleep... he can visit occasionally in our bed, but I think he deserves to have the independence to go to sleep on his own... now that he is over a year old... and again I stress... he was sleeping in his toddler bed... all night ... not that long ago. He was fine… until we all got sick in December. Yes I agree… there will be a time when he won’t want to sleep with me… and I’ll be sad for sure… and I do love snuggling him at night when he actually sleeps and doesn’t flail and gyrate and slap me and kick me and scream and attack the boobie on the hour or every other hour. Co-sleeping is great if you get to sleep… but that isn’t happening for me so much these days and I’ve reached a level where I feel mean I’m so drained and crowded… I feel like I need a few inches of personal space at least or I’m going to snap.

Is he maybe still not feeling well? Perhaps something still lingering... it sounds like he is stressed when not with you, almost like he is afraid he is going to get sick more/or again. Perhaps he is associating that sick feeling to you not being there...... both at that age are terrifying.
Maybe sleeping with something of mama's might help? T-shirt, dare I say, pillow (I am quite attached to my pillow, not sure I could share, but if it got me another 30 mins of sleep I would do it)

Is he on any vitamins? it was a long time ago, but I remember my little ones having some liquid vitamins from the health food store, before they could go to the chewables. Maybe reinforcing the " no more sick stuff" or the "keep you strong and healthy" I used the "chase away the sniffles" line, as you give him the vitamins will placebo him enough to help him settle?

Sounds like you have a mama's little one, and while its draining you now, when he is 13 and still wants to hang out with mom, it will be great! So I guess its try anything/everything you can think will work for your situation and hope something works for you!

He is definitly Mama's boy... 13... yeah... he need to survive to 13 lol...

I really think it is a behavioral issue at this point. I could try the pillow... he does like my pillow... I guess I could use his.

He takes the liquid nasty smelling vitamines when I feel like fighting him... it is a full out knock down battle to put anything other than a boob in that boys mouth.

The pillow might work, maybe something along the lines of "you can use mommy's pillow, but you have to use it in your big boy bed"?

Also, maybe you can have someone take him to the park for an hour.. just so you can have a hot bath, or a quick nap? Something to re-charge you?

Children are a frustrating thing... We love them, and will neglect ourselves to care for them... but sometimes you just have to have a *me* day! In some cases a *me* hour!! When we were dealing with our oldest son's behavioral issues, we ended up breaking everything down into hours, even blocks of time, say breakfast to lunch, was too long. His issues are much more severe, but we learned a lot that might work for "normal" kids. :)

Is there a way to slightly sour human breast milk?

You know I've wondered that and even considered putting bitter apple on the nipples when it isn't an appropraite eating time.

It was suggested that I eat onion and garlic, but the kid loves both and I eat them all the time so I know that isn't a deterrent and One indivdual suggested I give him a little chocolate milk, but he doesn't appear to like sweets...

Have you tried talking to him about nursing, when he's calm and settled? Things like "Mommy loves you always, no matter what, and I will always be here for you, but sometimes Mommy doesn't want to nurse"?

I have no idea if it's effective, but that is one of the tools I used to try to reinforce to Little Orange that NOT nursing doesn't mean she was losing anything. I also showed her her own nipples, and said "see? Little Orange has nipples just like Mama has nipples!" and she seemed to find that fascinating. It was also the first time it really seemed to sink in for her that I actually own and feel my breasts.

In the end, though, come to think of it, it was probably introducing a pacifier that kept me from losing my shit and throwing her out a window.

Have you tried slipping a pacifier into his mouth after he's sleeping and around the time he usually wakes up? Maybe that would trick him into not fully waking, at least during the night.

I agree with glatt and the ped about him needing solids. That to my mind would be the one biggest reason why he's not restful. It worked like a charm with my boys when they were babies. As soon as they started on solids before bed, they started sleeping through in their cots.

Have you tried different types of food? (I'm guessing the answer is yes) Sometimes kids like the weirdest things though. Maybe do a bit of experimenting outside the box?

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Pooka, he sounds exactly like Minifob was. He refused all bottles and pacifiers, never ever took one. Was interested in food from my plate, but only as a novelty, not to actually fill up on, and never ate any baby foods and very few toddler foods. He was always a terrible sleeper, but got especially bad at around 6-7 months, and would wake up every single hour needing to nurse for a second before going back to sleep.

For us, the sleeping came first, and then the weaning. I, too, was at the end of my rope, and at 9 months we just decided it had to stop. We let him cry it out. But not totally abandoned; his crib was in our room, and I just lay there repeating, "You're okay. It's time to lay down and go back to sleep," in a soothing voice. I was there and talking, but he could also see that my eyes were closed. It was 30 minutes the first time, and about 15-20 minutes after that for a few days, and then less and less. But overall, it took at least two weeks, maybe more, before he was sleeping many hours at a time. I increased the daytime nursing a little to compensate, especially first thing in the morning. I know there are many people who are completely against crying it out, but for us it was a necessity to get him sleeping at least a little more regularly. You have to balance the needs of the parent, especially if the stress is making you a less-good parent. I won't say it was easy for me to just listen to him cry, but one key for me was that by that point I could tell the difference in his cries between upset and angry. And they were usually angry cries. When he woke up and was obviously a little more upset, I would go over and let him nurse, but the key was I had to make that decision within the first thirty seconds, and stick to it. He learned quickly that if I hadn't gotten up after that time, I wasn't going to, and started waking up only when he really needed me. It wasn't for many months after that he slept through the night for real, but with larger blocks of sleep I was a lot more sane, so it was okay.

It sounds like Morgi being disturbed is the real obstacle. Could she move into your room with Flint while you work things out with Flintsy in his room? Or maybe have a vacation at Grandma's house? I have to admit, with a toddler bed it may be harder, if he can get up whenever he wants. Would it be possible to go back to a crib, with the toddler bed being a reward for acting like a big boy again?

After we conquered the sleeping thing, weaning was a lot easier than I'd thought it would be. By then nursing had been established as a non-constant thing, so he was more reasonable about scaling back.

Radical, unamerican advice. if you enjoy a drinkie before bed and it helps you feel drowsy... so will he.... never did mine any harm (hic)

also, try earplugs for Morgi.

more like for Flint...

srsly. I know what it's like to use the rumble strips to guide you to and from work.

I have actually been driven to drink lately... my mother of all people suggested some red wine before bed... I swore I wouldn't drink until they were done with the boobies, but I just reached a point...

I think it's fine for you to say "enough is enough". You have nursed him long enough. If you want to continue and let him wean himself, that's great, but if you don't that's great too. Mamas in the wild don't wait, they have needs too, just like you.

But it isn't going to be pretty. is a there a third room you could move his bed to, temporarily? One with a doorway you can gate so he can't get out, but can still see out? -we had to gate Thor's room. Then buy earplugs for Morgi and Flint and wait it out. You'll have some crappy nights, and it will hurt like hell when he screams and you know there's a way to comfort him immediately. Give him a bottle of expressed milk if you want, but be strong. it will get better faster than you think. it doesn't have to be cold turkey, you can do it gradually, and let him cry for so long before you let him nurse each time.

The expressing before you feed seems worth a try too. Mix breast milk in all his food that you can. Hebe used to love "cream" of spinach, and chopped carrots with a little something extra.....

here's a little something to help....

My dad suggested we give the inch paregoric... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paregoric

Uh, yeah. Do you have a quarter I could borrow? I'd like to go to the movies...

Quarter ounce or quarter pound... kidding. Wow... well... he did get some of my morphine drip when I was in the hospital... so I guess anything else I give him pales...lol.

I think I may have found a dinner he doesn't like the boobie form of so much... hot dog with horseraddish and saurkraut... he gagged and proceded to gnaw on a soft pretzle instead.

LOL can you live on hot dogs for 2 weeks??

Score!

Well, after that "training advice" thread...

for a week... ehhh not so much... but could probably maintain it for a few days.

Unfortunatly despite the fact that he ate better than I've seen him... he still woke up ... and spank my hand... I nursed him and brought him to bed again at 3am... but I will say he did seem to settle better and he snuggled real good just like the good ol days and even let me roll over and snuggle Papa... for a little while anyway... so that all confirms for me... belly is not the issue... he has learned a behavior that works to get what he wants and is totally pushing me around... and given how much I hate baby screams... I will have a real hard time reprograming him so to speak.

It would be real nice if we could leave the kids at grandma's and have a weekend alone... give him a chance to get used to not having me availible all the time, but the last time we tried that ... I found out later that grandma sat up all night rocking him... so that really doesn't help... makes it worse actually...even if she says she won't do that I can trust that she won't...

I know my mom would sleep through any crying he might do... but I'm not sure that would be so good either... and she lives in Houston... so that isn't going to happen.

Just tried Apple cider vinigar on the nipple before nursing him.... he had a little surprised look when he latched on, but didn't stop him. I have only let him nurse twice today so far... each time telling him he needs to start eating foods and drinking from his special cup... that Mama isn't always going to be able to boobie him ... but that she will always have food to give him when he needs it... just like Big Sister.

Cabbage and broccoli are said to often make breastmilk less palatable... maybe you can try to add those to your daily diet in various forms, and see if it helps him back off? Maybe it was the sauerkraut more than the hot dog, that did the trick.

Probably... not sure how many days I could choke down saurkraut. I like it and all... but not my fav

Maybe you can alternate with other members of the cabbage family? Bok choy, cauliflower, kale with ham, steamed cabbage, brussels sprouts, corned beef & cabbage, cheddar broccoli soup, steamed broccoli, beef & broccoli... you could probably be able to go at least a week and a half without repeating. :)

Our boys were both ok with the bottle so they were weened from the boob without too much problem, but the wanting to sleep with mom and dad was still fairly difficult until we decided to let them just stay in their crib and cry. it grates on the nerves but you're going to retrain them at some point anyway. A couple of nights with interrupted sleep beat months of co-sleeping in my book. (obviously not applicable to infants)

First you have to wean Flint.

{jking} :)

Cabbage is likely to give the baby bad belly aches. That's why they don't recommend it to breast feeding mothers.

I avoided having my kids sleep in our bed with us by never ever feeding them in the bed in the first place. I have to admit that once or twice I did sit on the bed and feed them, but that was during the day when it wasn't 'sleep time' for us. It seems to have worked because I've never had the problem of kids wanting to sleep in the bed with us.

ETA: Be Strong Pooka! You will get there. Maybe some earplugs for you too. ;)

If you have a small baby who is prone to gas, it's one of the first things that is suggested to remove from your diet, along with all other cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, but in general it's considered a very healthy dietary choice for nursing mothers, although some babies dislike the flavor it gives the milk.

Some recent studies even indicate that eating cruciferous vegetables while nursing may help protect their babies against certain types of cancer.

Unfortunately, I eat all those foods pretty regularly and he's never complained.... he is gassy, but that's never seemed to faze him... he's justa stinky little man... I guess it was the combo of horseraddish and saurkraut... who knows really. I don't think the food and the sleeping are related now... he is getting better at eating food day by day as I constatnly offer it to him and sippy cups... yesterday he only nursed 4 times total all day long... night time is another story.

For us, the night time was dealt with by quietly marching them back to bed and putting them in bed without saying anything or really giving them any attention. Every time. And also just letting them cry. It was brutal for the first night or two, but after that they got into the routine and it worked better.

You nailed it on the head. Ignoring a thrashing crying child for a full night, or a week of full nights, sounds brutal and cruel but it is not. At this point it really is the only way to get them off the teet. Giving them a cup to drink from, of anything other than water while in bed at night is a very bad idea too. You can't replace the teet with a plastic cup. I see lots of kids who "get a bottle because it is the only thing that makes them go to sleep at night", and they come in for full mouth restoration of their teeth under general anesthesia. Not a pretty sight.

Well I did the co-sleeping thing with both daughters, until about 18 mos-2yrs of age. We then made a big production of a new (big-girl)bed and sleepy time. It took about a week of them constantly getting out of bed and one of us immediately jumping up and taking them back to bed, for them to get used to it and stay there. My 3yr old loved the bottle, so once we weaned her off formula, we allowed her to have just one bottle, with water only, for when she goes to sleep.

My D13 was such a rabbity eater. She would barely touch her food. Ever. I was very concerned, but the pedia said she would eat what she needed, my job was just to provide healthy foods (not force them down her throat...figuratively speaking). Doc was right, she's growing up fine.

Time with daddy? What's that???

Seriously though, they do grow out of these stages. As exhausting as it is, one day they'll be all....'I do NOT want to be seen with you' and 'I'm much too cool for a kiss or hug!' and you'll miss these clingy, huggy, sleepless nights. Really.

My wife and I started the bedtime routine with both of our children very early, within the first 3 months. We used a 5-10-15 method.

Put them down, let them cry for 5 minutes, go in, sooth them, put them down

Let them cry for 10 minutes, go in, sooth them, put them down,

Let them cry for 15 minutes, then go in, sooth them, put them back down.

For both kids, they never went past the 15 minute mark, and after about 3 nights of this, they both went down on time and stayed down. The same process works for midnight crying. Obviously, when the child is sick all bets are off, and you just have to hold them and rock them until they get down to sleep.

I'm not sure how important the 5-10-15 aspect is for the child, but for my wife and I it was psychologically very important. It gave us a plan, and a structure, and helped us feel like we were doing something and knew what came next in the process. Without that, it just becomes a disorienting blur of screaming and crying, especially in the middle of the night when you are both exhausted.

Sometimes just having a plan helps you make it through.

Good luck, and I'm sorry you're going through this. It's very hard.

Have you thought about painting scary faces on your boobs? :D

Not only will he never want to see another boob for the rest of his life, but you will have someone to give your shoes and dresses to when he's older. :rotflol: