Smart Meters
 

The place I lived just installed electrical smart meters.They are digital and suppose to save money but I am wondering for whom.

My kilowatt use for November was 74 and for December it jumped to 734. I have natural gas for heat and do not use any more electric than I ever have. That's a bill increase of $30 which includes a distribution charge increase of $9.

I looked them up on the web and see many complaints mainly from California where others are complaining a spike in their bills also but the oil and electric companies will deny they are overcharging and attribute it to something like seasonal weather or user error.

Does anyone else have a smart meter or digital meter running for either their electric or oil?

Pull out your bill from last December and compare your usage to that. That's a fairer comparison.

thanks glatt

Fortunately it isn't the $30 dollars that is bothering me. It is the notation that my kilowatt hours jumped from 74 to 734. I have not even plugged in Christmas lights yet. It isn't darker this month than last. I just hope they do not install the smart meters for the nat. gas.



http://www.deanflorez.com/page.asp/c...548/csasp.html
CPUC votes to require Smart Meter testing
Florez called for independent review of PG&E devices amid widespread billing anomalies
SACRAMENTO – The California Public Utilities Commission today declared “extraordinary circumstances” to allow them to quickly move forward with hiring an independent consultant to test PG&E’s “Smart” Meters, amid widespread reports of billing anomalies with the new digital meters, including bill spikes of double and triple normal utility payments – even in vacant homes.
Senate Majority Leader Dean Florez (D-Shafter) has held hearings in Bakersfield and Fresno on residents’ concerns that Smart Meters are not accurately reading their energy usage. Many of those residents reported spikes in usage while they were at work or on vacation.



http://people.bakersfield.com/home/B...dsbarred/52097 PG&E smartmeters WILL be tested
Just got this from Sen. Dean Florez' office.
YAY! (though why it took intervention from a senator to get the CPUC to get off its duff and actually treat consumer's complaints seriously is another story!)
Still, good news!
And I'm also reading that customers in the Bay Area who are just now getting the smart meters are having the same complaints we did down here in Bakoland.
One man emailed me from Fairfield about how his bill is normally $160 in the fall. After getting a smart meter it was $500 for last month. Not exactly a heat wave going on in Fairfield (which is on the delta) and certainly not at this time of year.
What's PG&E's excuse for THAT!?
Anyhow, here's Sen. Florez' release:
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1680838.html
More than 100 people packed a hearing at the Hugh M. Burns State Building in downtown Fresno tonight to vent their frustation with PG&E's newest metering technology, which customers say has led to unwarranted spikes in utility bills.
Dozens more stood outside the meeting room. Several people held signs that read, "PG&E are a bunch of theives" and"PUC ripoffs.

Damn near ten-fold increase :eyebrow: I don't think so.
Were these meters made by the same company (Diebold?) that made those dodgy electronic voting machines?

74 kilowatt hours is awfully low, around here they claim the average is 500 KwH... mine runs between 400 and 600.

I was annoyed when they changed my meter to the remote read type, in the middle of the month, without warning. I've got no way of knowing what the reading was on the meter they replaced, but I didn't have to kill anyone because the bill was in the ballpark.

What does this smart meter do for you, besides raise your bill? Does it give you any on-site information?

@ zen I was wrong. It's double. I know 10 x is scary. I read the bill wrong.
I've never really paid much attention to it except when I saw the decrepancy between 74 and 734 I didn't know to subtract one from the other. That's my kilowatt hours. Which is still too high.


@Bruce. I went and double checked against what you said.

No it has not done anything other than raise my bill. 2010 they will have usage information.

I just went back and looked at prior bills. The meters reset so the 74 was from the last reading. I didn't look closely enough. It says I used 660 kilowatts from November to December but Oct to November was 358 kilowatts which has been ball park for me. The previous months have been 270s average. So you are right bruce I should be running between 400-500 but never close to 700 kilowatt hours in a month which 660 kwhr is double.




I hope I just forgot to shut a high powered light off all month last month.(sarc)

My kid did have insomnia last month. Can someone being up all night double the energy use? I hope so. At least it would explain it.

I am looking at the differences. I know the meters reset but am I seeing a too large a gap in numbers?

More energy gets used by large appliances... maybe somebody did extra loads of laundry and left the fridge door open? The hot water left on?

Or it could be that the new meters are more accurate than the old ones. Or it could be that the new meters are less accurate than the old ones.

The previous month's usage was calculated after a rollover or meter replacement, which may have caused an error in his favor. A better test would be to look at the month prior to that.

I have a separate (off peak) meter for my water heater, and a couple bills ago, that meter reading doubled for a month. Sure enough, the hot water faucet down cellar was right on the line between a fast drip and a slow stream.

May 277
June 299
July 270
August 258
Sept 358
Oct 308
Nov 358
Dec 660

Maybe UT.


These were for the months prior of course and November was a dark rainy month and there was a light left on all night all month and I do use the oven which may be the culprit?


I hope you are right rich and I've just been getting a deal. When the usage reports come out in 2010 it will be interesting to see where energy usage is coming from.

I have been calculating my daily usage and the way the meter is running I am using 19 kw per day which will be about 570.

B. What do you mean off peak for your water heater? How did you fix it?
I know that the electric company charge more for on peak times but I don't know what time of day that is. Probably the times of night when people like to turn on their holiday lights.

I'm a giv'n up on this .... I did report it to the electric company though so they know.

I do appreciate the comments so thanks .

Okay, maybe not ten-fold, but that is still one heck of a jump.

Lightbulbs use a tiny amount of power - say, 60 watt lightbulb x 24 hours x 30 days = 43200 watt hours / month = 43 kilowatt hours / month.

So leaving an extra lightbulb on all month would still leave 260 or so KWHs unaccounted for.

Ovens use much more power, but I can't imagine you leaving one on 24 / 7. Did you cook a really biiiiig turkey?

But if you're losing interest, fair enough. $30. Send the bastards the dough.

Well, that blows my underreporting theory. If you suspect any specific device and it is a plug-in device, you might consider one of these

http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation...0666577&sr=8-1 .

There are actually a few models from the same company. The cheapest is $20 and might give you some answers.

I looked at those last night!


great minds think alike;)

I fixed it by fixing the leaky faucet. The separate off-peak meter is on a timer that kills the power, to anything supplied by it, during the late afternoon and early evening when the demand for power is highest. I only have the water heater hooked to that meter, but the electric company will allow me to hook anything I want, as long as I tell them. High consuming appliances like a clothes dryer, or tools like a welder, that can usually be used avoiding the peak hours, are good candidates for the cheaper, by a third, rate.

Businesses are required to use a demand meter, which not only measures the total power used, but also the rate at which it's used. Say you had a lunch business that didn't total that much power for the month, but the business was only open for a couple hours a day, 5 days a week. But when it was open, you'd be using power at a hellacious rate for the deep fryers, grills and stuff. The demand meter tips off the electric company, and it only takes exceeding the demand limit for one hour, for them to bang you with a much higher rate for the entire month.
I can't help but wonder if that's where the smart meters are leading? After all, these new meters must be costing them a shitload of money, so they must think it's going to help them somehow. :eyebrow:

Appliances that make heat use the most electricity. I'd guess if you have an electric oven that you've been doing some holiday cooking.

Electric space heaters, hair dryers, halogen lights, etc. might also be contributing.

Appliances that make cold are pretty greedy too. ;)

Something's being greedy and methinks it's the electric company.

NY Times: 'Smart' Electric Utility Meters, Intended to Create Savings, Instead Prompt Revolt

You're part of a growing movement, sky... in the very worst way, but at least it appears you're not alone and now the Times has noticed.

I don't think the complaints will get very far except to elicit more fear into those who already distrust this administration. The bama haters will take this fault of the smart meters as proof of a fascist regime.

I am not going to go that far but I do think this is the very worst time for the government to be rolling out a new technology. Some people, who rely on electric for their heat have massive usage bills. Previous 100 dollar bills jump to 300 dollar charges. I feel terrible for the seniors on fixed incomes.

Maybe if we were living with peace on earth in the land of perpetual sunshine and employment for everyone was just something we could once again take for granted then maybe we wouldn't mind the government gambling on peoples last dollars for the benefit of digital controlled appliances. I know that's blase at best.

There's more than just green technology. I can think of those futuristic shows where lights come on voice command but there's also another control factor that gets my hackles up. I can't even voice them out loud. It seems like others already are though.

Ok there are the conspiracy theory sites. I am not saying I am buying into it but I am watching closely.


http://poorrepublican.today.com/2009...ol-the-switch/

Meter measurement of electricity by the hour or less. That means they can measure your use at any given time and monitor and log it. The meter proponents say this is to help you control your usage by feedback. It’s actually to control your usage by making sure you meet whatever guidelines Obama has put in place, such asthis proposal in England.
Ability to “throttle” electricity by setting a maximum amount usable at any given time or per hour, per day, etc. Why build this ability into the meters unless you plan on using it? This means Obama’s EcoNazis will tell you how much electricity to use and when. First it will be “voluntary” and based on price. If that doesn’t work, because you are willing or able to pay what it takes to use what you want, they will simply ration your power to make you conform to the limits Obama sets. They will use the meter to set a level of power that they decide you are allowed to have and you will get no more. Period. You can cook, but not watch TV at the same time. You can watch tv, but not have your computer on. Get the picture so far?
Ability to detect unauthorized use of electricity. See above.
Bi-directional communication. Self explanatory. They can’t decide how much you can use unless they have a good database of your usage, right?
Ability to interface with water and gas meters. One stop shopping for the EcoNazis. You use too much gas? Bad for global warming. Sorry, but we’ll have to set limits on that too. Take faster showers, buddy.
They’ll even be able to calculate your “carbon footprint” by integrating the data from all your usages, and then set limits on everything based on that. Oh, that sounds paranoid, doesn’t it?



http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/oba..._smart_meters/
What really caught my attention was this “Smart Meters” thing. During the campaign Obama said that we can’t just have our thermostats set wherever we want (even though he sure likes cranking the thermostat in his own office, the big hypocrite). Is this “Smart Meters” thing a way for the government to monitor our energy consumption?
It appears as though it is, and I wonder if the Smart Meters the “stimulus bill’ is going to put into place are going to report our energy consumption to the government? If so, what an awful thing!
If the government starts monitoring our energy consumption, it will only be so long until the government is dictating to us how much energy we can use.
And what does that have to do with freedom and liberty?
It should would have been nice if we could have read and debated this bill before Democrats pushed it through Congress.

oh but those sites sure do a good job digging up some dirt.

This is quite revealing. (From the sayanythingblog)
Here’s what Obama had to say about thermostats on the campaign trail:

We can’t drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we’re living in the desert or we’re living in the tundra and then just expect every other country is going to say OK, you know, you guys go ahead keep on using 25 percent of the world’s energy, even though you only account for 3 percent of the population, and we’ll be fine. Don’t worry about us. That’s not leadership.

Here’s news of Obama cranking the thermostat in the Oval Office to offset winter chills;

NYT: WASHINGTON — The capital flew into a bit of a tizzy when, on his first full day in the White House, President Obama was photographed in the Oval Office without his suit jacket. There was, however, a logical explanation: Mr. Obama, who hates the cold, had cranked up the thermostat.
“He’s from Hawaii, O.K.?” said Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Axelrod, who occupies the small but strategically located office next door to his boss. “He likes it warm. You could grow orchids in there.”

So, whither the leadership Mr. Obama? Or are you just another “do as I say not as I do” limousine liberal? One who uses global warming alarmism to justify all sorts of policies that undermine our freedoms and burden our financial lives while simultaneously living a life of lavish energy consumption?
That’s not change we can believe in.

Careful there sky . . . thats blasphemy to some.

Nothing ever changes. More cheap shots from an extremist hiding in a cave. Not one useful fact. No knowledge demonstrated. Just another cheap shot. If he came out of the cave, a trolls pathetic dribbling would be obvoius.

What would the informed and intelligent post? Even the Cellar has been powered via an intelligent electric meter for years. Why is that meter not causing higher electric bills?

The original complaint sounds like some programmer has programmed a math error. And his boss is so technically ignorant as permit failures to continue.

A responsible extremist would have asked for numbers from the meter itself. Nothing has changed. classicman never proposes a solution. Otherwise someone might take a cheap shot at him.

First get facts. What are numbers on that meter - taken daily? How do those numbers correspond with numbers from the bill? Not dollars. Kilowatt hours.

Depending in the meter, meter may also provide another important number - power factor. Another useful number - how many kilowatts (not kilowatt hours) are consumed (reported) at any one time? And what appliances are actually on then?

Those numbers would mean nothing to you. But are necessary so that the few who actually learned reality will reply usefully. Without cheap shots from a cave.

Uh, that was sarcasm there Tommy boy.

How ya been. Work keepin you busy lately?

well well well

Have you ever heard of the saying,"Don't shoot the messenger?"

Did I say I am not buying into conspiracy theories? Yes I did.

Did I say my electric bill spiked by double? Yes I did.

Did I say I am an extremest? No I did not. I am a middle of the road registered Democrat who thinks she is going to switch to independent. Not that will help anything but I can choose to what I want to be affiliated with and I am not an extremest for any camp.

Good job classic bringing TW out of hiding or may I say good team work.;)

We had that planned all along.:fingerx:

Only the extremist posting cheap shots was quoted. Meanwhile, solutions were provided for those who are not (unless you want to be).

Welcome aboard. I came from the other camp.

Well you are wrong again, it's not double, it's about 60% higher, not double, but still a lot.

660kw /32 days = 20.6kw day
358kw /28 days = 12.8kw day

60% = 0.6, and that rounds to 1.0... double. :p

If it keeps going at this rate, by New Years, it will have been free!

lol zen you're always funny

'I am wrong'. Not only wrong but wrong 'again'.
That's so obvious I think I'll make it my user title.
weee!

Thanks Bruce. You got my mean math skills down. :D

Thank you. I think we need a revolution.