Toyota stop sale
 

Toyota Recalls 2.3 Million Vehicles Over Sticking Accelerator Pedal

This isn't good for anyone. We had a stop sale on the altima in 05 or 06...one car....and it was a nightmare. This is huge.

they can't even sell the used ones.

This could be a Mega Ballsy Move on their part , After this is thru have a Ernest Looking Dude say some thing like " We found out there was a serious Problem so we Pulled ALL the affected Product "because WE CARE SOOOO Much for YOUR Safety !!!!"

Speaks of concern for the well fare of the Public over Company Profits

The kicker is that the don't even know what's causing the problem or how to fix it!

and every drunk that wrecks his Toyota will be jumping on this bandwagon.


they also put a hold on new toy yodas, i hear.

The recall is part of a major change in Toyota. Whereas Toyota was well above GM in quality, Toyota quality had fallen significantly below what any automaker (with responsible management) should have been doing.

The recall is but an iceberg tip. Wantanabe apparently was a problem for Toyota. Toyoda took over. Observed is a perfect example of what happens when better management finally lets employees address problems and implement solutions. Why were Pintos exploding and burning passengers alive? Because the problems was identified before even the first Pinto was sold – and stifled by Henry Ford.

Fuel injection works by monitoring vacuum inside the throttle chamber. If a mechanical linkage opens the throttle plate, then an engine (fuel injectors, et al) responds by burning more fuel - suck more air to increase vacuum. This was how it was done when Germans were putting this old technology in German WWII Messerschmitts in the 1930s.

The problematic Toyota design has a new design; electronics controlling that plate.

Anyone who understands computers also understands Watchdog timers. Too many engineers who only understand software can subvert an essential electronics device. Subvert that Watchdog timer. Testing cannot detect such mistakes. Another example of ‘quality by management’ concepts taught by Deming. If management did not do their job, for example, then a critical feature required in any realtime computer system would not protect from catastrophic failures.

This watchdog timer example demonstrates many design functions that cannot be detected and averted if management failed to provide the necessary attitude and knowledge. One example of why a very few products would do something completely unacceptable. And why this problem is virtually impossible to identify in a mechanical autopsy.

That recall is a symptom of what happens when new management addresses pre-existing management failures. Same should be happening in Chrysler today. Nothing here says that has happened. Only that symptoms imply a new management in Toyota has finally let engineers look for or implement solutions.

what color is your Accord?

Every car on the road that has properly working brakes, can be stopped with the engine running at full throttle... every car.

Drop it into neutral apply breaks and walla...

walla. lolla

voila, ya mook.


but then your motor blows from over revving! not really.....but...just turn the fucker off. and then what?

plus, there's this thing called "Neutral" that comes in handy once the surprise has subsided a little bit. A clutch is even better, if you have one.

Call the dealer and tell them their defect just blew up my car come get it and fix it.

there's the rub. do the dealers....once they figure out HOW to fix them.....fix customer cars or inventory of unsold cars first?

you know which they'll WANT to do first....

Yea, I heard it on the news. Pissed me off since my dau drive a '10 Corolla and I drive a Tundra. But what cha going to do, they have us by the nads, and we can't control it.

Anybody else immediately start thinking about the recall math scene from Fight Club? That was Fight Club, right?

Yes

I suspect we are talking about weeks before any solution is implemented in serious numbers. And we still do not even know what this solution is. Did they really fix a problem? Or just move / reshape the pedal? A solution that will easily take many months just to get going on a large scale.

I've seen a couple different opinions of what causes this issue..... one says the floor mats get tangled up with the pedal, and another says the drive by wire throttle position sensors are faulty........


sounds like a boogie man scenario......

Yea, they sent me the floor mat boogie man memo, I went out an looked at mey truck. No fucking way that my matt could get caught under the pedal. I think they were reaching at that point for a simple solution. The new one will obviously be much more expensive.

I wonder it's the same problem the audi 5000 had. That would be ironic.

The audi 5000 was clearly drivers stomping on the gas pedal. Then claiming they were pressing the brake pedal. Even a Consumers Report investigation and video made that obvious.

This Toyota problem is different. In one crash, the brakes literally melted.

Yes. I know.

Didn't know that. Is there a link?

Or a spring on the pedal sometimes does not push the pedal back up. Or ... I have read everything I could find. Nobody (with responsible knowledge) is even suggesting what is the problem OR what the Toyota pedal solution solves.

We now get to learn how Toyota manufacturing works. Years ago, at the only source of brake cylinders - that plant burned down completely. Using concepts taught by Deming, Toyota literally had a sewing machine manufacturer completely trained in Toyota production techniques and manufacturing brake cylinders in three days. Toyota supplies do not win contracts only on price.

This pedal is made only in northern Indiana. Only the more informed news services will discuss how Toyota got production changes implemented AND expanded to meet demands. Obviously that is proprietary information - except where better new services are asking that sidebar question.

I hadn't heard that either, but just found this.

"In the accident that has drawn perhaps the most publicity, a 2009 Lexus ES 350 raced through San Diego, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush-hour freeway traffic. Veteran California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor was at the wheel, with his wife, teen-age daughter and brother-in-law aboard.

"We're in trouble. ... There's no brakes," Saylor's brother-in-law told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. As they approached an intersection, and the end of the road, the passengers could be heard urging each other to pray. All four died.

Afterward, investigators said that it appeared the brakes had been applied for so long that the brake pads melted, according to a report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

To the Audi and Toyota problems? Or a URL? I have so many sources that I cannot remember which ones reported on that one crash and the melted brakes.

And BTW, one would be completely devoid of basic driving techniques to not know how to put a car into neutral or switch it off (without the steering wheel locking up). For those who do not know how to do this, well, even after thirty years of driving, I still learn a new driving technique. Most who learn how to drive have only started to learn what should be common knowledge - such as how to put any moving car into neutral.

Same is why drivers go to snowy parking lots. Get up a little speed and spin the wheel. Every driver should have a feeling for how that car spins out - and how to control it. Even a parking brake is a steering tool when one finally learns basics.

Fact that so many have suffered death due to this ‘failure combined with little driving knowledge’ implies how much larger the problem actually may be.

But the OP story says Yeah, I'd be putting it in neutral or downshifting with the tiptronic thing long before the prayers...

Green. :p

Cruisin with tw in a snow covered parking lot - Now THAT sounds like a good time. :p

Yeah, well that don't work so good when you drop your 40 and the bottle rolls under the brake pedal...:eyebrow:

That's OK, those people deserve to die.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/article/...assure/882812/

The Truth About Cars details the pedal assembly that is experiencing too much friction:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toy...lusive-photos/

Why don't they use the pedal they use in the Lexus and Scion? Why the fuck do they have a different pedal in the first place? I don't believe them. :headshake

cost? Are they made at the same plant? Does that matter?
(not a car guy)

First, the traditional fuel injection uses a throttle plate connected directly to the pedal. This pedal controls the throttle plate electronically.

Another untroubled Toyota pedal design comes from Denso. This pedal is manufactured (and therefore designed) by CTS in Indiana.

But again, Toyota demonstrated why the problem existed. Wantabe was removed long ago. Toyoda then said Toyota has many serious problems. You have again seen an example of why that failure probably existed so long ago and was ignored. Reports of this problem existed long before it became news worthy. To get the problem fixed, apparently Toyota has to replace the reason why that problem (and others) was being ignored. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.

While we're mook-ing, I'm calling mook on you, tw. Less than thirty seconds of Googling would have gotten you Watanabe's correct spelling. You did not make even this minimal effort, and you come up short.

Language is not your first language.

Just another example of wacko extremists attacking a centrist because hate is his only objective. Rather than discuss the topic, his political agenda says he must post another cheap shot. As if Cheney and Limbaugh, et al rhetoric did not do enough damage to civility and informed discussion ...

did someone say . . .

http://www.channel4.com/food/images/..._landscape.jpg

Is that Dim Sum? Yum.

Bosh, son: I am Middle America, and you are fringe. Read your own posts and mine to see how fringy your thinking is, and how regular mine is.

You're a whiner, too. Babyish, as the above quote shows. Your entire personality is designed to keep anyone from taking you seriously. That should by rights include you. My political agenda is also manifestly superior to yours, and always has been since the day I came to the Cellar. You should adopt something better, and develop human, liberty-minded values while you are at it. Until then, you are highly defective regardless of your politics. Your inability to copyedit, and inability to conceive of copyediting, acts to undermine you. You have zip attention to detail, and your incapacity with any and all languages is a shame to you. Prostrate yourself and beg forgiveness of the entire English-speaking world, and then spell correctly, ultra-megadolt. Including Watanabe, which ain't but Smith in Japanese.

Hello Mr. Pot. I'd like to introduce you to Mr. Kettle.

Stoke the fire. What results is more exciting.

:lol2::rotflol::haha:

You do not have actual cause to laugh, Sam. I defy you to prove you have anything to support so silly an opinion. I don't think you've got anything real.

Pete, howdy, and you have no visible room to talk either. I am vehement in the cause of good and of virtue -- and of smarts. What are you vehement in the cause of, that would contrast with these?

:lol::lol2::rotflol:

It's the dead-pan delivery that makes it so good.

Not really trying to stir things up, but I certainly don't see UG as centrist. Does anyone?

Besides UG.

"O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."

Oh, the entire board is populated by extremist left wing pinkos and UG is the sole voice of reason and sanity. :rolleyes:

UG? Who's he? :confused:

Urbane Guerilla - you know - the voice of reason.

Not the entire board, Sam... I am not the stupid fellow your stereotyped thinking requires, but something altogether more challenging to your regrettable prejudices, which are likely to come out in any philosophical wrangle. The short way to say it is that I can't be as stupid as you need me to be -- you'll have to settle instead for something real and thoughtful. Admittedly, I'm unlikely to always be considerate; it's a flaw.

Nor am I to cast myself as the sole voice of reason and sanity. However, being possessed of both faculties -- perhaps to your disappointment, perhaps not -- I do voice them. "Come, my songs, let us speak of perfection -- We shall get ourselves rather disliked."

Are people still drivin these things?

this is why i stay out of the politics forum. the sexual tension between UG and tw is freaking me out.

Come over here, Jim, and let me put my finger in your ear.:condom:

Urbane, has anything you've said here got anything whatsoever to do with the situation under discussion? Or is it just a random attack on your arch enemy for the appalling crime of not spelliing something correctly? Maybe even an excuse to engage in a little more self-mythologising?

I was finding this thread surprisingly interesting. I don't normally find anything about cars interesting.

This morning I heard that Toyota apparently knew about the braking issue with the Prius, fixed the problem for the newer cars, but never told anyone about the issues on those cars already sold - nice, real nice.

I think this goes on with all car companies, but now that the spotlight is on Toyota, they will be getting hammered for a while until the media's attention shifts elsewhere. We're going to be seeing more similar stories about Toyota for a while.

Already happening, Glatt. There was a report on NPR earlier in the week that they are now looking into a number of reports of problems with brakes.

On a lighter note... VW says they won't be running any sales to take advantage of Toyota's problems, and the companies that are running promotions, are predatory. :rolleyes:

VW, huh? Let's turn the spotlight on THEM now.