Getting a friend help
 

I'm not going to go into much detail right now but any suggestions would help.

To sum it up, my roommate got arrested yesterday and will most likely face charges of resisting arrest but could get up to assaulting a police officer. We were at a party last night and the cops showed up and started kicking everyone out. I left right away but my drunk and depressed roommate, who historically has problems with authority figures, kept asking if he could finish a beer and the police officer repeatably said no. Turns out he walked out the back door, with the beer, then preceded to drink it right in front of a police officer. After ignoring orders to put it back inside he was held by the police and then he started struggling and got forced to the ground. I could not hear what was being said, I did not want to get too close, but he may have threatened the cops and he for sure made a big scene about it.

This is an obvious call for attention. All he could have done was drop the beer but he wanted to push the cop's buttons and wanted to see what would happen. My friends and I have noticed this this call for attention in the past but never thought it would go this far. My friend group is also full of extremely intelligent people who are very good at analyzing people but none of us have gotten even close to figuring him out.

I am assuming he will just get a resisting arrest charge but worst case scenario he will get threatening police officer, get kicked out of college (he is on his last semester), get kicked out of Law school (he got accepted to two schools), get placed with a massive bill and fine (he is already is massive debt), and not be able to get a job.

As I said in my past thread, I am past fed up with him but I feel leaving him to fend for himself would be immoral and hurtful to his family and other groups of friends. So, right now, I have decided that the best course of action is to push him to get professional help (counseling or whatever) and not insulting criticism, my usual method. Problem is that he, at least historically, is very resistant to this type of "help" and would prefer the world to change for him. Every single one of my friends have tried to help out on some issue of his and none of us have succeeded. Professional help is the only way he might be able to get back on track IMO. I should have the support of most of my friend group so that will help but as I said earlier, he will probably react by thinking we are all against him.

So, any personal suggestions or advice? I will update this as I get more information.

Actually, it sounds like you are on the right track..........If he has trouble with authority I wouldn't go to him as a crowd. Have each friend talk to him one by one....Personal level, one on one sincere conversation.......

It sounds like you are definitely in the right space. Yet, one thing to remember, no matter how it turns out it is not your fault. His actions are his actions. I don't know about "leaving him to fend for himself". You are right, it would not be the right thing to do. You can be supportive but don't carry his burden for him. Professional advice is the right course. Even if there is nothing terribly wrong, seeking a professional does not hurt.

You are a good friend. This type of thing is going to happen to more people you know throughout your life for one reason or the other....It is good to learn the proper recourse.

You're basically stuck with staging an intervention, or walking away from the guy for good. A literal intervention will have everyone not just on your side, but in the same room confronting him all at the same time, including family and often a pre-selected professional. Sounds like nothing short of that is going to have any effect.

Interventions do not work like on TV, and usually result in the victim punching out one or more of the concerned others.

Acknowledge that the dude fucked up. Give him the number to the campus counselling service or the local crisis hotline, and give him the ride if he asks for it.

Actually, regardless of what you feel, you don't have any responsibility to him ... he has to take it for himself.

What he needs first, though, may be a lawyer.

Did he get arrested-arrested, or just issued non-traffic citations for Public Drunkenness and Disorderly Conduct? (unless he punched or spit on the cops assault charges over something like that are rare. Also was it "real" cops or "campus" cops?)

He wouldn't be the first lawyer to have done something drunk and stupid in college, incidentally.

For you:
Al Anon and Co Dependents Anonymous

For him:
AA

For everyone else, Mastercharge.
Or is that everything else?

I agree. As of now, this will be my first attempt. He has mentioned many times that he prefers to be talked to one-on-one in a non-offensive way. I usually hate doing this because I don't want to talk to my peers like I would a child but I think I am going to suck up my pride and not lash out at him, which, at least for me, is extremely difficult. If this does not work, then I will probably take Clod's advice and do a full out intervention with our close friends and his family. I do not want to do this first because I have a very strong feeling that he will take this as an attack on him and isolate himself even further, causing him to hold down his frustrations even further and have it come out in even more destructive ways.

My personal view on anything of this sort is that, yes, it is solely his responsibility. I do not feel like this is my fault in anyway. But, on the other hand, I also feel like it the responsibility of a friend, leader, etc, to recognize actions that could cause problems in the future and do something to prevent it.

Basically, this action and any future action is solely the fault of my roommate, but I, as a friend, should try to get him help to prevent problems in the future.

This is what I saw. Handcuffs were being put on him and he fought back, possibility threatening the police, and resulting in him being forced to the ground. Some people said they thought they saw tasers but I couldn't verify anything. Someone tried to videotape him being arrested, so one of the police officers arrested him and called back up, forcing 10 other police cars to show up in the matter of a minute. I don't know if the back up was called because of him or because both police officers were busy wrestling with someone and the bystanders were getting rowdy. I'm assuming the second but my roommate threatened me and others earlier that night so I am assuming he threatened the police as well.

I have no heard from him yet today so I'm assuming this isn't some small charge. But, it is a Sunday and a holiday so it might be that.

That is my usual approach but I know he will not take the offer. Then he will just get worst. That has been the trend for the past few months.

Ultimately, it is his choice to get help or not. If he does not want to change then he will not change. I am going to do my best to convince him that the path he is going down is not in his best interests but that will prove to be MUCH harder since I swear his brain has twelve inch solid steel covering against helpful advice.

wolf is wise and right.

One of the hardest lessons to learn during the young adult part of growing up is that you can't make the world perfect and you can't help everyone.

Get him the numbers to call, details of the meetings to attend, tell him you'll drive him there and go with him if he needs, and then walk away. The more you tell him what he needs to do, the more likely he is to resist and not do it. People are just like that. Especially drunk ones. He has to make the decision to clean up his act, you can't do it for him. He may need counselling or he may be able to do it by himself. It's not your call.

It is notoriously dificult to get a person with a drinking problem to admit he has one until he is good and ready to do so. He may go through disaster after disaster and just shrug it off. He will probably resent the hell out of you for saying anything. Still, it doesn't hurt to try and maybe the incident will have shaken him up enough that he's willing to listen to reason. Just don't be surprised if he's not.

you may have to face the fact that your friend is an asshole.

they do exist.

And after you save his life, he'll beat you out of the scholarship you need, the job you want, and steal your woman. :eyebrow:

we have had to disassociate our selfs with a few folks for our good ,
we have had talks with them about their life's and their poisons,
Universaly we get a Big "FUCK YOU !!!!!"

They have to fall down on their own ,

and make their way back to their feet on their own

Ugghhh.....

Charges are pending and might be dropped. His story, that he believed, was COMPLETELY different then what actually happened. He is so fucking delusional. I told him he was being a complete dick for the last few days (he tried to fight me on Saturday along with other people, he lashed out on some girl on Friday, and was threatening people with a road cone later that night) and that he is completely delusional since he truly never believes he is at fault for anything he does. I told him that he probably should talk to someone about it but I was too mad to do anything else.

it's a hard situation for you, because you live with the guy. My experience tells me to protect yourself (it's not a sin); you may need to consider changing living arrangements (his, or if that won't work--yours).

Do whatever you need to do in terms of offering help to salve your conscious. Then let the fucker go. Some people are just not worth it.

I've been planning on moving out when my lease ends for a while. And even though it may not show in my posts, I am very good at letting people go from my life and not letting their problems get to me but its extremely difficult at the moment since our lives are so entwined right now. Since I actually live with him, I have to put up with a lot more crap then friends that do not live with them.


And I am really good at not letting other people's problems get to me even though it may not show from my posts.

"Delusional" and "In Denial" are not the same thing.

The first is a symptom of an illness. The second is the result of a choice.

Please do not confuse the two, as it gives him more excuses.

You, and everyone around him is/are being played, whether it's conscious on his part or not.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

This is what has been happening consistently. He will do some extremely asshole-ish move when he is drunk. Then, the next dat he will remember the event except everything he did that would be considered an asshole move. Or, he will downplay it to the point where he does not consider it his fault.

I have stopped hanging around him for the past few months for this reason (and others) but he followed the group I was this weekend so I forced to be near him.

Maybe you would still consider that in denial. But it is the fact that he has a very selective drunk memory. I don't think it is him consciously justifying himself either because he is usually honest about times he messes up.

The selective memory thing is bullshit, don't buy into it for one more second. It's manipulation.
It's much easier to pretend you don't remember things, or remember them differently, than to take responsibility for shitty actions.
It's easier for his friends to just let it slide than rub his nose in what he's done.

For 99% of people I would agree with you Jinx but, not to be difficult, this guy does not act like anyone I have ever met before. Most people I can figure out why they do stuff and this guy leaves me, and all my other friends, in the dark.

First, he is very good at owning up with apologies if he realizes he does something wrong. If you yell at him for doing something stupid he will apologize for it even if he is not fully convinced he is wrong. The problem I have with him is that he will continue to do whatever he did and becomes a cycle of apologies and nothing being learned. This could be seen as manipulation but he only pushes people away by doing this so if it is purposeful, I do not see the logic behind it.

Two, he never really argues against our accusations or tries to defend himself. He, at least outwardly, seems to take our word over what he thinks he remembers.

Of course, he could be trying to manipulate us but then he would be the worst manipulator in the world since none of us give a shit about his intentions and focus on actions.


You may still be right Jinx but based on this individual situation, I disagree. Every other time I have heard the "I don't remember" line I don't change my stance. I then tell them to not drink as much.


But, as an update, I chewed him out for about 30 minutes this morning about him being an asshole to people. He sent a mass text out saying that he is sorry if he hurt anyone and that he realizes he has a problem. I've seen him do the mass apology thing but never seen him say he has a problem this openly. Still, I'm going to take everything he says with a grain of salt until I actually see his actions change and even then, I'm not planning on living with him next year.


Oh, and just as heads up. Even if I defend myself against a point doesn't mean I shoot it down altogether. Much of the advice I have gotten I have integrated into what I actually did or plan to do. I don't mean to come off as shooting down everyone's advice or thinking my situation is so much different then everyone else's because I do not actually act in that way. I want to thank everyone for the input so far. It has helped greatly even if I have not shown it.

Sounds like you met the 1 in a million Olympic champion manipulator. As I said earlier, go to a few AA meetings or Al Anon Meetings or ACOA meetings and you will meet and or hear about an assload of people who will make your friend seem like a cub scout.

He's nothing special, you just haven't lived long enough yet to meet more of his legion.

Keep your distance until your lease is up, then make yourself scarce. Good Luck.

Write this kid off and quit buying the bullshit. Maybe getting the shit kicked out of him in the legal system will give him reason enough to get his act together. Maybe not. Either way it isn't your problem unless you choose to adopt it as your problem in which case you are just enabling him.

Just to be safe, shoot him with a silver bullet, drive a stake through his heart, and don't leave a forwarding address. :headshake

He signed up for university counseling. We'll just have to see if anything changes.

probably a condition of his bail

No it wasn't.

That is simply a maneuver to appeal for mercy when he gets to court. "see your honor, I had a problem but I'm getting it fixed now".

it is the poor people's version of a trip to hollywood rehab.

Too obvious, I know, but he shouldn't be consistently doing stuf that he needs to apologize for.

Safest thing to do is stand back and watch him self-destruct, keep the D&A treatment phone numbers handy, and offer them if he asks.

Hope the university counseling center works for him, or at least gives him enough of a head start that he can find a way to succeed.

I love the intervention show, it makes me feel so together and normal.

Ever seen the Sunny in Philly intervention episode? I swear it's the funniest thing I've ever seen on television.
Watch it.

that links to a load of shitty surveys and spam links, jinx.

No real info is required, couple of clicks and fake address if you want to watch it there.

Except for the first 5 mins, its on youtube too.

Having read only the first few responses, I felt compelled to reply.

I think he has already pretty much f*cked up his career. What he did was probably a felony and not many law firms are going to be receptive to that. I work for one, so I should know.

Personally, I think he is self-destructive and it would be better for you to just write him off before you get dragged down with him. Just my two cents.