Need new desktop PC advice
 

Our existing PC is showing its age, and I think it's time for a new one. (I think it's about 8 years old. Running XP. The small hard drive is 90% full, and I've been moving as many files as I can to an external hard drive to free up space. The DVD drive failed years ago, and the DVD burner works intermittently. I upgraded it to maximum RAM about 4 years ago, so no improvements to be made there.)

I want to get a Windows 7 machine while I still can because I have one at work and am familiar with Windows 7. I haven't been following the current state of things, so I don't know what's good. I'd like to spend under $500. What specifications should I look for in a machine? How much RAM? What speed processor? What kind of processor? We don't do gaming, but our current PC has analog stereo audio inputs that I have really grown to love, so I'd like a halfway decent audio card. Otherwise it's typical home office work. Web browsing. Some YouTube videos. Addicting Games. That sort of thing.

Who makes a good PC? We've been happy with this Dell, but are there other equally good brands out there? Who do I buy from? Is NewEgg the place to buy?

You could build your own. ..

That way you can teach your son about them, and if it breaks you know how to fix it. I had a lot of fun building that gaming rig with Spencer.

I bought my parts at tigerDirect which used to be comp USA.

I'm fairly comfortable hooking up all the bits of hardware, but I don't have much interest in learning the software side of things to get all the part to work together. I have a feeling there will be driver issues and BIOS stuff and things like that. Yuck.

I'm happy to buy a machine and order some extra RAM on the side and install it, but that's about it. Maybe install a sound card too, but that's even not that appealing because it might involve cutting the case to make it fit.

Almost all systems have audio built in to the mainboard, no sound card needed. Most people buying sound cards now are doing it for 7.1 sound.

4MB RAM is fine.

The current line of Intel budget processors is the Core i3 line. Don't be satisfied with anything lower than the Core CPUs. AMD has not really kept pace with Intel in recent years.

Many modern systems are delivering with Win8. You may get a better custom system from a builder such as Directron. (click on PCs & Barebones, System Specials. Sort by price. Add $100 to the price because the OS is not automatically included.) Although you could build one yourself or get me or Jim to do it for you.

Newegg sells major PC company systems, but only recently. They are more of a parts company.

The oh wow component these days is the solid state drive. It's expensive. It's worth it.

If you need a monitor, there's nothing wrong with getting a 23" Acer from Newegg for about $120, or the 24" for $140.

Thanks! this is helpful info. Time to poke around a bit.

Yes to the SSD. hell yes.

Is a Pentium processor worse than an i3 processor?

I'm wondering why this one seems like a good deal compared to others in the same price range, considering it comes with Win7 installed. Has 8GB RAM too, when others around the same price have 4GB. Is the Intel Pentium G2130 Ivy Bridge 3.2 GHz LGA1155 Dual-Core Processor less desirable?

Most of the others don't include the OS, so that's the same thing as being $100 cheaper.

So what does the solid state drive do for you?

They seem small for their price. Do you get a SSD for the system to use and then a second traditional HD for storing all your files?

I was not aware that a few Pentium brand names were in the Ivy Bridge group of Intel processors. That's a good value processor.

SSDs just do everything disk-related tons faster, so yeah the idea is to put the operating system there, and anything you want to get done RIGHT AWAY.

UT,

A Pentium brand processor makes an AMD look good.

I personally wouldn't touch anything with below a Core i5 (which is what my wife's laptop runs). Those are plenty fast for most items.

The SSD is the best value, however. Stick with a good brand like Samsung or Intel, and you'll love it. I used one to rejuvenate an old Core 2 laptop, and it is like having a whole new machine.

I would seriously consider Windows 8 with one of the Start Menu replacements like Classic Shell as the OS. It's really blindingly fast, wireless works as well as OS X, and it has really good power management support. The new UI is an abomination, but it doesn't mean you can't replace it. Plus, Windows Explorer has a lot of new features in this version. Task Manager is also greatly improved.

Windows 8 also has really good SSD support at the OS level. 7 doesn't have good support (it was bolted on).

4GB RAM on a Core i5 with an SSD on Windows 8 with a half-decent NVidia card and your machine will outright scream. I wouldn't put an SSD and 7 in the same machine unless I had to. OS X or Linux, since both have been tweaked for SSDs, I would.

That's fanboyish nonsense, and not good advice for an everyday PC buyer who has stated a reasonable preference for 7.

You mean besides the better TRIM support in the OS (as opposed to an add-on like I have to put in for my Intel drive with Windows 7 to periodically run it) and support for newer SSD technologies? I've run both, and 8 does do a better job with them.

Uhh...no. Not a fanboy here.

You had to add on something to run an IDEAL SSD configuration on 7...

But you had to add on something to make 8 even USABLE for the average user!

If you were to run 7 would you put an SSD on it? Of course you would.

This intrigued me. I have a Dell Dimension 8400. 9 years ago, CNet said it was among the fastest PCs they had ever seen back when they tested it in *cough* 2004. Would a SSD make it a new machine? Or would that be stupid? I'd still want a new OS, and the DVD burner is acting up.

Back to a new machine, how big does a SSD need to be to get the speed performance? I'd still store all my jpegs and stuff on another drive.

The size doesn't matter. It's the physical properties of the device. They are fast because, simplistically, they don't have to wait for platters to move under a read head.

ETA: As long as your OS and other IO intensive tasks can fit.

I'm not sure if XP has gotten updates to optimize read/writes on SSDs. I'd bet you'd see some improvement regardless.

Relevant: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2857150

How much time is spent waiting for a disk drive? Verses how much time is spent processing data already read/loaded? Your answer is clearer by watching how programs run using Task Manager (or Process Explorer) to see where the bottlenecks are. To understand the answer can be unique to what programs are doing. Even the flashing disk drive light provides a better idea.

SSD means reading the program/data from the disk is faster. And then the system takes the same time to still process and display that information.

How much faster is a machine when the DRAM memory is doubled? Another indication of what (of so many) bottleneck exists. Waiting for the disk drive to load a program is often only a tiny part of the waiting time. Those other bottlenecks are not solved by an SSD.

get a mac

NOT

;):p:

the computer before this one was a Mac. I kept an unbent paper clip sitting next to that piece of crap and used it daily.

:D

Bing/Google
Firefox/Internet Explorer
iPhone/Samsung
Chev/Ford
Coke/Pepsi
Coal/LNG
Lowes/Home Depot
UofO Ducks/OSU Beavers
Los Angeles/San Francisco **
gay/straight
Democrat/Republican
Christian/Muslim
good/evil
PC/Mac

Will Infinite Monkey please come back to give us the TRUE answer.



** For Land of Oz, Melbourne/Sydney

Santa got my son a laptop for Christmas with Windows 8 on it. What a frikkin PITA!

orly?

that's interesting to me as I have considered the same plan for SonofV. You would recommend against?

I've heard nothing but good things about NOT getting a laptop with windows 8.

The only thing worseworseworse than windows 8 is a mac. lol.

Srsly, I hate it - there are no programs anymore. They are all apps. Everything is an app AND they want to have your CC on file as the apps have monthly fees. Microsoft Office is like $7 a month. Instead, I downloaded openoffice.org
The battery holds no charge whatsoever & hasn't since valentines day.
Either I got a lemon or they all suck. You decide.

I'll admit, I don't mind Windows 8 so much. But I also use it exclusively in Desktop mode, and I only use open-source office/graphics/PDF programs. Every time I reboot I am surprised to see this stupid metro screen, but then I just click on my desktop "app" and don't have to see it again for a few weeks.

I'd heard the new arrangement for Office, software as a service. F*ck that. Hearing that you can download OpenOffice is a huge plus, thanks for that tip, even though it moves the needle in the direction of getting a tablet/RT version.

I've been in San Francisco doing job interviews the last two days. Some of the conversations have been crazy.

With one pair of interviewers we talked about how we might redesign certain products (GMail, Twitter, etc). It became clear to me how much the things the people who design and build the software want differ from what the intended audience want. Not even in the same ballpark.

Even within "my" ballpark the desires aren't really in the same ballpark.

I bring this up because it seems relevant to Windows 8, Mac, Facebook, *whatever* hate. There is surely a bubble where the decisions made on those products makes a lot of sense.

Some will use a certain product because their needs align with the assumptions of those in the design bubble. Others will use certain products because they can't figure out any way but the established choices. And then there is the group where none of those products make sense and so they take a (many, really) third way.

(n.b. I've met people who unabashedly love Windows 8 and for decent reasons. I'm not sure they aren't extraterrestrials.)

You are exactly correct and I would hire you.

In the case of Windows 8, the people who designed it wanted to win the touchable screen war by instituting a unified piece of software that runs on everything. Including non-touchable screens and screens that it is inappropriate to touch. Their desire is so incompatible with what desktop users need, it is insane. Do you want fingerprints on your desktop screen? Do you want to pay $500 more for a desktop computer? Do you want to lift your hands from the keyboard and mouse all the time? It is insane.

In order for 'useful' designers to have influence, the boss must understand and use the products. History is full of examples.

Largest PC software manufacturer in the world once had what we now know as Office. They had Multimate, dBase, etc. All before Microsoft did it with Word, Access, etc. And then its founder died.

The new guy did not understand or use those products. When he introduced a latest version of dBase, it was obvious in 5 minutes to all reporters that he did not know what dBase did. Therefore he also did not know his newest product had over 10,000 bugs. Eventually they would have to buy back all those dBase packages. Because the boss was ignorant of the product. Because he thought like an MBA.

Same has changed in Microsoft. Ballmer is a bean counter. Therefore useful innovation in Microsoft is stifled. For the same reasons Sculley and Spindler so destroyed Apple. Same reason why GM and Chrysler make inferior products. Same reason why Ford became productive when an MBA (Jacque Nasser) was replaced by someone who had a driver's license (William Clay Ford).

Windows 8 makes sense when using spread sheet analysis. It makes less sense to a laptop user who do not want a Gorilla Arm.

TW,

Unfortunately, Windows 8 does fix the wireless bugs that plagued 7 when using it on an enterprise network. It also fixes power management bugs that my wife and I had. With a Start Menu replacement, it's really fast.

However, it takes it to the same level as where OS X or iOS were 4 years ago.

The problem is that Ballmer's taken what was once a sure bet and ruined it with Vista and 8.

BTW, most of my fellow MBA students use iPads or Macbooks (with a few Android tablets here and there) and abhor the Windows 7 installs in the labs :). I have not seen a single Surface in any of my classes. I have seen 1 or 2 Windows 8 machines, that's it.

Surface is a perfect example. Did you know there are two different types of surface? Nothing in the advertising says anything useful about Surface. So why would I want one? Isn't advertising suppose to make you need something you do not yet have or did not know you needed?

Well in using it, I found a few nice features I have not seen work right on other tablets. How would anyone know? Microsoft's advertising reflects the Ballmer attitude - little grasp of what the product should actually do.

The expression "There's an app for that" said what the product can do. And why I would want it. And what was relevant in a better product. It said top management was concerned about the product - not about finance or profits.

TW,

I know there are two types of Surface. One that only runs "new" apps, and one that costs more and runs all the legacy ones I care about. The "New Apps" one has a much slower processor than my iPad 4. The other one is more expensive.

The only app they've advertised as working is Office. I can get QuickOffice for my iPads and use that instead (and do).

So far, my MBA professors have said two things right on the money:

1. The iPad, smartphones, and tablets are going to cause Intel issues, because their chips don't run in them.
2. Microsoft is losing the race, because their apps do not run on the iPad or Android. It's no longer about the desktop PCs.

(I deleted my longer analysis because this thread is jacked-enough as it is.)

I would not count Intel out, with its new ATOM processors. There is a lot of competition in low-power mobile chips, and Intel has a history of falling behind and coming back to dominate competition.

Microsoft also is broadening its offerings and might stay relevant in two ways. To consumers by becoming more of a general media company (think Sony) and to business by deepening their already strong infrastructure and development offerings (I don't use them, but they aren't bad).

I'm pretty bearish on Apple long remaining the powerhouse it became under Jobs' second round.

Thanks for all your input on this topic. It was all very helpful and I was able to make an informed decision.

At first I was looking at the systems Directron was offering. Specifically the i5 processors, but then I remembered that through work I can get a special deal on Dell machines through some sort of employee discount thing. So I looked in to that and learned that I could actually get slightly more machine for the buck if I went with Dell. Plus then, I would get the Dell support and warrantee. (I'm getting basically an identical machine but with a 1TB drive instead of a 500GB drive for $9 more. Plus it comes with a new keyboard and mouse.)

My only regret is that I didn't go with a SSD. With both Directron and Dell, I didn't see any way to have them build me a machine with a SSD, and I didn't feel like building one myself. Maybe I'll try doing that in the future, or maybe my next machine in 5+ years will come with a SSD.

Anyway, I ended up ordering this for $549 plus 2 day shipping and tax:
Oh, this is also going to come with some bloatware installed, which is a bit of an annoyance, but I can go through and clean it up a bit.

I also discovered that I can get a legal copy of Microsoft Office Professional through my work for only $9.99, so I'll get that once the PC arrives.

It there anything I should do first with it? With past PCs I've just plugged them in and started playing, but should I perform any maintenance on it before I get started?

Are you sure about the 64-bit version of the OS?

I have heard some reports about the paucity of drivers for devices and applications for the 64-bit version where they were easily available for the 32-bit version.

However, these complaints are now kind of old, and perhaps the things you want to use or connect don't have this problem.

Things to keep in mind: your protective software is on a subscription basis, you'll need to keep paying for it if you want it to keep protecting you. Now might be a good time to make an entry in your tickler file to renew or replace your software BEFORE it expires. Also, you might want to add other things that make your life on the computer easier. One small example of this is WizMouse, it lets me scroll the contents of the window under the cursor, even if it is not the window on top. I am kind of touting WizMouse, a little, but my point is that you might be accustomed to having some (non built in) piece of software that you use all the time, and now you'll be working without it. Do you use Picasa for your photo management? You'll need to download it. Adobe Reader, come on, you'll be dealing with pdf files, right? Browser of choice? Stuff like that.

I see you have no speakers. Important?... I don't know what else to say (and I am afraid to bring up the subject of p o w e r s t r i p s / s u r g e p r o t e c t o r s). :D

ninite.com

single download / install for all the free software you need

that is all

that's helpful. Thanks!

w h o a


thank you!

I get my new windows 7 PC tomorrow. I've heard other people talk about partitioning hard drives. Should I partition this hard drive? It's 1 TB. What's the benefit? I've never partition a drive before.

If I do partition it, when should I do that? I plan to delete unwanted bundled programs first, then load programs that I want. Do I do the partitioning first?

If it's installed, it'll already be partitioned and you can safely just let it go. Partitioning was more important when there were smaller address spaces and more need to separate one thing from t'other. Nowadays everybody just has one big C drive, or sometimes a C drive and a small recovery partition as D.

I usually partition off my data from the operating system. That way I can blow away the OS partition any time without losing anything important. I usually exclude the OS from my backup scheme.

You probably want to do it early, if you're going to bother. As, IIRC, the Windows 7 partition (split & resize) tool will take a long time, if you let the disk get too fragmented.

That separation already exists without separate partitions. The data is in the "My Documents" directory (or folder). The OS is in the Windows directory. Partitioning only creates additional complications.

Those complications are benefits to my mind. But I am not the average computer user. I tend to trash lots of OS installations (trying out betas and such) and like to have a firmer separation between system and user-space, especially when I'm being lax about backup.

These days I tend to use completely separate devices for the OS and user data. In the old days that only happened when I filled a disk, and the extra devices became a mishmash of things.