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-   -   Christmas Trolling? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=29758)

Griff 12-24-2013 04:29 PM
Christmas Trolling?
 
Should we be trolling dwellars on Christmas Eve using peoples' real pain as cover for our, arguably, false beliefs? I watched The Book Thief the other night so I may be over-sensitized to the use of manipulation to protect a message. Am I a troll for saying something?

footfootfoot 12-24-2013 06:01 PM
I'm not sure what the question is.

orthodoc 12-24-2013 06:42 PM
I don't understand. Clarification please?

And a Merry Christmas to you, wishes for a lovely holiday no matter what your beliefs. No trolls here.

sexobon 12-24-2013 07:04 PM
I'm too busy looking for Christmas trolloping to notice.

I verbed that noun for just for Christmas.

Oops, I did it again.

Griff 12-24-2013 08:30 PM
I think I don't get it. That is all.

Gravdigr 12-25-2013 10:12 AM
Christmas trollops...Now that's something I could get behind.

You know, so-to-speak. :D

DanaC 12-25-2013 10:16 AM
Ha! Fnarr fnarr.

xoxoxoBruce 12-27-2013 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff (Post 887055)
Should we be trolling dwellars on Christmas Eve using peoples' real pain as cover for our, arguably, false beliefs? I watched The Book Thief the other night so I may be over-sensitized to the use of manipulation to protect a message. Am I a troll for saying something?
I'm wondering what about The Book Thief (which I haven't seen) prompted your reaction?

Griff 12-28-2013 09:03 AM
You should check it out. It was the over-all atmosphere of Germany during this period where people are afraid to push back against wrong-headed cultural norms for fear of getting on a list. Here its more enforced by social forces, any questioning of military incursions over-seas are turned into attacks on the men and women of the armed forces. Its pretty clear that we are less safe because of our militarism, but we don't challenge that for fear of revealing that the terrible life sacrifices made by our soldiers were counter-productive.

Undertoad 12-28-2013 09:20 AM
Godwin invoked

Griff 12-28-2013 09:31 AM
Now now, you should have played the Godwin card in response to post one. :redcard:

The last post was a direct response to a question.

Undertoad 12-28-2013 09:33 AM
I was supposed to see the film in order to know that

infinite monkey 12-28-2013 09:35 AM
Or, read the book. It's a good one.

monster 12-28-2013 09:36 AM
On the worst day of Trollmass
Cellar Troll gave to us
Twelve non-yanks whining
Eleven stalkers stalking
Ten dwellers posing RFN
Nine newbies nitpicking
Eight photoshopped images
Seven suicide threats
Six snarky sockpuppets
Five gold-plated rings (at UT’s porn shop)
Four Flint vanity searches
Three clone threads
Two inane polls
And a homophobic rant in pseudo prose

infinite monkey 12-28-2013 09:37 AM
:lol:

Clever girl.

footfootfoot 12-28-2013 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff (Post 887349)
You should check it out. It was the over-all atmosphere of Germany during this period where people are afraid to push back against wrong-headed cultural norms for fear of getting on a list. Here its more enforced by social forces, any questioning of military incursions over-seas are turned into attacks on the men and women of the armed forces. Its pretty clear that we are less safe because of our militarism, but we don't challenge that for fear of revealing that the terrible life sacrifices made by our soldiers were counter-productive.

One thing many people underestimate are the resources behind the motivation of the people in power. To be clear I am not referring to any of the elected or quasi-elected figureheads/ corporate puppets.
Simply put, they have a better PR machine directed at a population fairly incapable of critical thinking.

If I feel stupid and am in the top 5% intelligence, then what chance is there that the rest of the country is going to grok there is no connection between saddam Hussein and WTC or that the one vocal opponent to an Iraq incursion because there were no WMDs, thereby negating billions of dollars in profit to be chyle, Halliburton, et al, also happens conveniently to be found out to be into kiddie porn? Therefore, ad hominem, everything he says is a lie. Let's not wonder how someone achieves that level of security clearance and is into kiddie porn.

Did any of that make sense, or did I sound like I was channelling tw?

In conclusion, the corporate PR machine has successfully conflated
"Support our troops" with "don't criticize the government.

This is the local hand basket, express is on the other side of the platform.

Griff 12-28-2013 10:23 AM
Makes sense to me.

monster 12-28-2013 11:03 AM
I put the book on my library list.

Griff 12-28-2013 12:22 PM
Lil' Pete read it in sophomore Engrish and Lil' Griff read it on her recommendation. They both say it is the best book evah. Imma read it soon.

xoxoxoBruce 12-28-2013 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff (Post 887349)
It was the over-all atmosphere of Germany during this period where people are afraid to push back against wrong-headed cultural norms for fear of getting on a list.
Ah, OK, not having seen it I didn't know if the writer's handing of the "Book Thief & compatriots" were as victims, like I would assume, or as some sort of antidisestablishmentarian trouble makers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 887362)
One thing many people underestimate are the resources behind the motivation of the people in power. To be clear I am not referring to any of the elected or quasi-elected figureheads/ corporate puppets.
Simply put, they have a better PR machine directed at a population fairly incapable of critical thinking.

If I feel stupid and am in the top 5% intelligence, then what chance is there that the rest of the country is going to grok there is no connection between saddam Hussein and WTC or that the one vocal opponent to an Iraq incursion because there were no WMDs, thereby negating billions of dollars in profit to be chyle, Halliburton, et al, also happens conveniently to be found out to be into kiddie porn?
I used to wonder (not because I'm in the 5%) why people couldn't see what was going on. Did they not understand? What I'm finding more and more, is they don't fucking care. As long as walmart is open, and facebook is up, they don't give a shit what happens to them A-Rabs, Af-Ri-Cans, Wet-Backs, or even anyone not in my hood... be it ghetto or gated community.

It's so bad, I'm afraid if 9-11 happened today, the majority response of outrage, grief, and it's duration, would be dictated by hashtags.
Quote:
In conclusion, the corporate PR machine has successfully conflated
"Support our troops" with "don't criticize the government.
The majority of the men and women in the military are doing a thankless, often dangerous job, for not much money, and doing it the very best they can.
However, as much as I respect them, I don't always agree with the way they are being used, and abused, by the politicians and Pentagon. But like you say, if I object to the mission, I'm attacked as anti-military and un-American.

Here again, it's because people don't care. They only want to disrupt their videogame or ski-trip long enough to wave a made in China flag and repeat carefully crafted slogans like you mentioned.

But, but, thinking is hhhaaarrrddd.

Griff 12-28-2013 12:49 PM
Is it maybe a healthy dissonance? The government does not appear to be changeable at the ballot box so wouldn't it be reasonable to look the other way and try to succeed under the system as organized?

Sundae 12-28-2013 01:02 PM
I don't like Kipling. For many reasons.
Although there's no doubt I could cherry-pick some of his lines and adore his poetry. For the language.

But here is a Cherry pick just on the subject of the public's view of the armed forces.
I know you are arguing more complex political issues, but in many ways I believe plus ça change and all that.

Quote:
Tommy - Rudyard Kipling

I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

DanaC 12-28-2013 01:11 PM
Quote:
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
That line chokes me up.

Griff 12-28-2013 02:27 PM
My take-away is that Kipling was playing the social enforcer on this one, making sure everybody lined up with the Empire using the soldiers as cover, like you said, plus ça change. He was particularly talented, but it stills looks pretty manipulative from the outside, an ascetically pleasing Rush Limbaugh.

DanaC 12-28-2013 02:41 PM
Partly, maybe. But I think it is also largely a call against the way soldiers were treated in Britain. Even though the notion of stalwart soldiery was a little more apparent in the late 19th century than in the 18th, there was still an expectation that they would lay their lives on the line for very little in the way of pay and provisions. Their families were not looked after to anywhere near the extent they should have been, and they were afforded precious little respect for their profession - the legacy of a culture who feared and disdained the notion of a standing army at the call of the monarch.

Like I say things had changed somewhat. But there was a still a tendency for popular culture to be very loudly supportive of them whilst they were having bits blown off them, but slander them as untrustworthy rogues to a man, the rest of the time.

footfootfoot 12-28-2013 03:19 PM
Pffft. As if any of you have ever Kippled.

I have always read Kipling to be on the side of the soldiers and the proles and critical of government and bureaucracy, cf The Last of the Light Brigade or Study of an Elevation in Indian Ink.

I have always detected immense irony and sarcasm in his work, and continue to be flummoxed by those who read works like "The Betrothed" and think Kipling is a misogynist rather than calling out the shallowness of the couple.

I'll wager he was rather cranky IRL. When I lived in Brattleboro there was an awful lot about him in the local history books and lore, and they painted him a rather decent chap despite his pain in the ass brother in law, whom he suffered graciously.

DanaC 12-28-2013 03:34 PM
Very much on the side of the soldiers.

But also a very shrewd user of the music hall format, and the conventions of that format to tap into popular patriotism.

You might find this interesting Foots:

http://historyspot.org.uk/podcasts/v...e-history-fund

xoxoxoBruce 12-29-2013 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff (Post 887377)
Is it maybe a healthy dissonance? The government does not appear to be changeable at the ballot box so wouldn't it be reasonable to look the other way and try to succeed under the system as organized?
I read an article last night claiming the Brits are so disgusted with their government they're staying away from the polls in droves. :(

fargon 12-29-2013 08:16 AM
Happy Christmas, Merry New Year. I am the Christmas Troll.

Griff 12-29-2013 08:17 AM
What brings you out from under your bridge? :)

fargon 12-29-2013 10:59 AM
Trolls must troll.

Sundae 12-29-2013 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fargon (Post 887483)
Happy Christmas, Merry New Year. I am the Christmas Troll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff (Post 887484)
What brings you out from under your bridge? :)
Father Christmas most likely. He goes under the bridge to sleep off all that sherry and brandy butter. Trolls get driven mad by the smell of kids and have to come out.

sexobon 12-29-2013 02:14 PM
If footfootfoot was a troll, he'd be a Tootsietroll!

DanaC 12-29-2013 02:20 PM
...you'll get your coat?

sexobon 12-29-2013 02:24 PM
If Sundae had a troll, it'd be taken for a Sundae'stroll.

limey 12-29-2013 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 887375)
Ah, OK, not having seen it I didn't know if the writer's handing of the "Book Thief & compatriots" were as victims, like I would assume, or as some sort of antidisestablishmentarian trouble makers.



I used to wonder (not because I'm in the 5%) why people couldn't see what was going on. Did they not understand? What I'm finding more and more, is they don't fucking care. As long as walmart is open, and facebook is up, they don't give a shit what happens to them A-Rabs, Af-Ri-Cans, Wet-Backs, or even anyone not in my hood... be it ghetto or gated community.



It's so bad, I'm afraid if 9-11 happened today, the majority response of outrage, grief, and it's duration, would be dictated by hashtags.



The majority of the men and women in the military are doing a thankless, often dangerous job, for not much money, and doing it the very best they can.

However, as much as I respect them, I don't always agree with the way they are being used, and abused, by the politicians and Pentagon. But like you say, if I object to the mission, I'm attacked as anti-military and un-American.



Here again, it's because people don't care. They only want to disrupt their videogame or ski-trip long enough to wave a made in China flag and repeat carefully crafted slogans like you mentioned.



But, but, thinking is hhhaaarrrddd.

Where is the "like" button?


Sent by thought transference

footfootfoot 12-29-2013 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 887375)
Ah, OK, not having seen it I didn't know if the writer's handing of the "Book Thief & compatriots" were as victims, like I would assume, or as some sort of antidisestablishmentarian trouble makers.

I used to wonder (not because I'm in the 5%) why people couldn't see what was going on. Did they not understand? What I'm finding more and more, is they don't fucking care. As long as walmart is open, and facebook is up, they don't give a shit what happens to them A-Rabs, Af-Ri-Cans, Wet-Backs, or even anyone not in my hood... be it ghetto or gated community.

It's so bad, I'm afraid if 9-11 happened today, the majority response of outrage, grief, and it's duration, would be dictated by hashtags.

The majority of the men and women in the military are doing a thankless, often dangerous job, for not much money, and doing it the very best they can.
However, as much as I respect them, I don't always agree with the way they are being used, and abused, by the politicians and Pentagon. But like you say, if I object to the mission, I'm attacked as anti-military and un-American.

Here again, it's because people don't care. They only want to disrupt their videogame or ski-trip long enough to wave a made in China flag and repeat carefully crafted slogans like you mentioned.

But, but, thinking is hhhaaarrrddd.
You're in my 5%, Bruce. ;)

xoxoxoBruce 12-29-2013 06:57 PM
I'm not a smart man, but I know what bestiality is. ;)

Clodfobble 12-29-2013 11:28 PM
After Christmas dinner my family played Cards Against Humanity, and I had to explain to my father what a "taint" was. But he knows what bestiality is, too.

DanaC 12-30-2013 03:23 AM
oh! We played Cards against Humanity after Christmas dinner!

Griff 12-30-2013 07:52 AM
We played after Christmas Eve dinner!

Clodfobble 12-30-2013 08:11 AM
Technically we played after Christmas Eve dinner too, but it was the official Christmas meal for my dad's side of the family. On my in-laws' side we played the card game Gloom, because they would not be able to handle CAH.

Griff 12-30-2013 08:12 AM
We played with my "sainted" sister going in and out of the room. Her kids were wise with the timing of their plays.

BigV 12-31-2013 04:35 PM
The pre xmas party hosted by Twil for her work-mates included an *epic* Cards Against Humanity game. At least the beginning part was fun, I don't remember how the evening ended.... I did, however, solve the mystery of my severely bruised sternum. Twil's toilet has an elongated bowl. And it turns out there is such a thing as too much bourbon, though how much is too much remains a mystery.

monster 12-31-2013 05:27 PM
Ask not for whom the jingle bell trolls...

Sundae 01-01-2014 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 887620)
oh! We played Cards against Humanity after Christmas dinner!
Is it yours? Can you bring it to Glasgow?

DanaC 01-01-2014 03:33 AM
Alas, tis not. Meels brought it back with her from Uni, iirc.

Griff 01-01-2014 07:55 AM
http://www.cardsagainsthumanity.com/...H_MainGame.pdf

Just print!


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