Okay, but no. What kind of car should *I* buy?
 

Since you all did such a bang up job of helping Lola pick out an awesome car, I'm tapping all y'all for all y'all's opinion(s).

It's a little early yet but so far, the ins co will give me 2300 for the car and I get the snows, maybe I can get 75% of their cost to me. (~$525.)

I am going to talk to the bank today about whether I can get a car loan. It's parts or payments and I prefer payments, and the certainty they offer, to parts at this point.

This isn't so much a question about cars as it is a question about how you want to structure your life right now and the financial decisions you make that will live with you for years to come.

Spending a few bucks on a junker car that you work to keep going seems unpleasant, but if you go to the bank and take out a loan, that means you are signing up for some shackles of debt that you'll be carrying around for several years. Your job is relatively new, and you seem to be enjoying it. Are you ready to commit to it for the long haul? Will you be able to make it through each month with all your expenses and also a big car payment? Or will that be a strain that wears you down over the years?

I can't answer any of these questions for you.

For me, I'd rather drive a shit box and be debt free. It's liberating. Although that intermittent stalling problem on the Camry is frustrating when it happens every 2 months or so.

What are 'parts'?

Reliable transportation is so important. But you can get by with less depending on circumstances. When I worked at the college in town I could easily call someone to run out from the school and pick me up if I were having car problems. When I worked in Downtown Hellton, that wouldn't happen. The former job was very understanding and lenient if I were late, too (you know, at least treated as a salaried adult and there were no timeclocks.)

I agree about not having payments. It's wonderful to not have a monthly car payment. However, I'm not handy with cars and I don't have close friends who are car fixin' people who could pop over and take a look: so there's the convenience of knowing your car will probably run...if you're weird about 'calling in reinforcements' like I am.

Remember that old song "You don't have to have a car, baby, to be in my show..." Well, you might need a car to get to the show but you don't have to have a show car.

Alternator is an easy job. Clutch is a bigger job.

Most used cars you buy from a dealer, even the real clunkers, come with a year or two warranty. Is the inconvenience of a "parts" car only the cost of the parts, or the visits to the shop to have the problems fixed?

In the vast world of auto options, I think you can find a happy medium. Maybe a $5,000-$7,000 oldie but goodie, subsidized by the insurance payment, and you wouldn't have a monthly payment for so long that you'd be burdened if your employment situation changes again in a year or two. Another thing to consider is your housing situation--if you're looking to move into something more permanent in the near(ish) future, you're going to want your credit to be good, and not already have a lot of revolving payments over your head.

plattsburgh is about 2 1/2 hours from me, Jim is 4.

Parts is parts, infi. ;)

I would need more than a shitbox car to unshackle me, glatt. I look at it as not having to worry about unexpected breakdowns or waiting for the other shoe to fall. A new, new car is off the table but a newer used car is probably the best idea for me. I have way too much on my plate right now to add any kind of fixing up of cars to it. Also any type of car work is going to be done en plein air, not fun in the snow, rain, and -5 degrees.

I went to my product advisor dot com and did their questionnaire and got a list of likely suspects, only they just do 2014 cars. It gives me a starting point anyway. After school I'll talk to my bank and see what kind of loan I can get.

I've always liked this car, maybe I can hammer Jim down on the price.

http://www.cherryhillnissan.com/type...2.0L-538984115

Unless you have hot and cold running wallets, you're in the same boat as most people where they spend most of their efforts on food, shelter and reliable transportation,(big 3), for them and theirs.
To maintain all three at a level which affords additional activities, adventures, or hobbies, is getting rarer all the time... and generally limited to people who were established and entrenched before Wall Street killed hope.

These days, in order to have one of the big three comfortably secure, usually means skimping on the other two. But most people end up juggling all three, trying to keep everything in an acceptable balance. You may have to love the one you're with.

Hit eBay Motors, Feet. You can search by price range, and see what a certain amount of money can get you. That way you have a starting point for finding out just what you might want.

1.8L 148hp and 37 mpg highway vs. 2.0L 179hp and 33mpg highway?

Assuming everything else is equal?

It's hilly and short passing lanes here. I'm moving from a V6 with 170hp, so I'm afraid 143hp may make me insane. the old car was a 4 speed and this is a six speed, not sure if that will help with passing or climbing hills and maintaining speed.

You CAN test drive cars, you know. make sure you take them up hills, and simulate passing. 148hp is a good bit, if it's a light enough car. but HP can be misleading. where does the HP peak, in terms of RPMs? do you have to wind it way out to get that, or is it in the useable range?

we still talking Hyundai?

Hmmm good point. I forgot about test driving in my haste to decide. Yeah I'm looking at the Elantra GT.
I've also heard the Focus is a reliable car. What's good in the Nissan world?

They don't have the Sentra Spec V anymore. nothing that really compares to the GT, actually.

Check out the Subaru Imprezas.

Okay, but no. What kind of car should *I* buy?
 

I think Subarus are over priced for what you get. Everyone around here has them and they all sound as tinny as Honda civics.

I liked the sonata because it was solid and quiet and a fairly large sedan. Would an Altima be similar?

I guess that even though the Elantra is considered a compact it is pretty big. I'd say it is on the smaller side of what I'd like but adequate.

No, the Altima is much larger. The Sentra is the comparable Nissan.

Look at the Subaru , goddammit. The sport even looks like an elantra GT and theyre both 20k. the Scoobie will hold it's value a lot better though.

http://car-pictures.cars.com/images/...OM_COMPARE.gif

http://car-pictures.cars.com/images/...OM_COMPARE.gif

http://www.cars.com/go/compare/model...ds=14128,14159

oh. I forgot all about the Juke. that's a bit closer to the Elantra Gt....but They cost 25K.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....mo-concept.jpg

I'm going to do a couple of test drives today. Does one need to make an appointment or can I just walk on the lot?

Is my credit rating affected by having a bunch of credit checks done?

The Juke is pretty cool. I like this shot, it looks like what you'd get if one of the creatures from Alien had sex with a Cooper Mini.

It is a common misconception that multiple inquiries can adversely affect your score. If you have a car dealer run your credit, then they submit it to 13 banks, then you go to another dealer, and it happens the same way, it will all count as a single inquiry. as long as they are all AUTO inquiries, and fall within a 3 week range (appx because transunion is vague about the way they word that)

but if you have your own financing lined up, just tell them you're a cash customer until right at the end. If your salesman is smart enough to ask you if that's cash-cash, or outside financing, then great...be honest. but don't volunteer it.

there should be no reason they can give you to pull your credit prior to your agreeing to purchase the car. once you do say yes, though, expect them to run it. even if you are going with your bank. they have to check you against the OFAC database(Patriot Act), and also verify your identity (Red Flags Rule), and a credit report is a good way of doing both at once. There are other ways, and if you're really against them pulling your bureau, they can get around it. don't sign the credit application if you don't want it run. go ahead and give up your ss#, sign the privacy notice, etc.... call me if you panic. any time


http://www.transunion.com/images/global/spacer.gif

I had a JUKE for a demo and loved it.
it could use a bit more low end torque, and a bigger gas tank...but what a hoot to drive.

Thanks Jim.

you got it broseph.

oh, just remembered ... we traded a 2011 Juke last week. has 34k... I think they want $15995. not a bad deal. you up for a drive to NJ? sorry, I don't have any pics yet. it's not on the website yet. It's Bronze in color. belonged to a little old lady that only used it to go grocery shopping and to church.

I would be up for a road trip. Let me do some test drives first.

have fun1! drive fast, take chances!

When I was hem-hawing around about buying my Bug, the salesman said "take it for the weekend...see how you like it!" He knew I'd fall in love. The car is my mid-life crisis. Fucker. ;)

Is that normal? To just let someone take a car for the weekend?

They did it to us. And we bought it.

We used to do that at Family. Very rare here. It absolutely works. 70% of the time, it works every time.

went to drive the Juke after work tonight but it was far too tiny. I drove the Rogue 2014 and dug the CVT.

A little too pricey.

yeah... too soon to buy one of those. they just remodeled them. go drive the Impreza. check out a WRX.... more expensive, but they hold value really well, and they are a blast.

gonna try the Impreza next.

[quote=lumberjim;889033]

Look at the Subaru , goddammit. The sport even looks like an elantra GT and theyre both 20k. the Scoobie will hold it's value a lot better though.


Ha! I'm turning my boyfriend into a Subaru enthusiast! As i said to Lola, I am still absolutely in love with my 2006 Subaru Impreza 2.5 liter 4 cyl. 7 years later and the car still has a ton of pep! No issues passing anyone or going up hills, 107,000 miles and the engine is still very responsive. My 06 resells for about $7000 on the lower end right now. Those that sound "tinny?" I hear that on the much older models, but not within the last ten years, i'd say. The impreza is a smaller car (although newer models have a larger backseat now) so if you want more room, go for a legacy. If you want a dependable, reliable, safe, fun zippy car, subaru is a definite contender. Please, go test drive one. you don't know the difference until you do. tight suspension, responsive steering, all wheel drive all the time. I can't say enough about my subaru or subaru in general...love, love, love it!

If you aren't interested in a subaru, the altima is an excellent car. Huge inside and also is reliable and holds its value well. Hyundai is good for their warranties. I believe they've really upped their game recently. The only thing that still worries me (my own personal opinion) is the reliability years down the road and resale value. But again, that is only my opinion.

You need to check out consumer reports and test drive, test drive, test drive! My only other contender was a mazda 6 sport...i test drove it and hated how the whole car jerked away from me when i (intentionally) hit a pothole cover. The car was done for me. Enter the impreza. Beyond happy with my decision. Go test drive and see what you like!

It's funny, my aunt recently asked me what kind of car to look at that she could expect 10-15 years from and I had to tell her to check out Subaru... I like Nissan, but suspect that I am biased. I did like them more than Honda and Toyota before I worked here.... But I also liked vw better than most other cars back then.... So i can't really be trusted, because vw is really crap with quality....

If I look at it from the actuarial view point... Meaning, in my Nissan warranty book for Non-Nissan vehicles , .... which cars are the cheapest to put warrantees on.... Class 1 being cheapest, up to class 9....

(if I recall correctly, which after 3 beers I may not).....Subaru impreza and legacy are class 1, as is Honda civic, and fit. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Subaru forrester, Hyundai elantra, I think maybe Ford fusion, surprisingly enough, are class 2. Camry is class 3, as are most make's entry level cars, like cobalt, caliber, sonata, optima....

Mazda 3 starts at class 4 and they go up from there... Which is troubling because they give you a 5-60 bumper to bumper. Vw are all class 6 and above... Jeep liberty is a 5, all others 6. BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar Audi, Cadillac etc. populate the higher tiers. Lexus are mainly 3-4 which is a coup because high line cars carry high line labor rates....

I am doing this purely from memory, and may be off on one or two items... I should scan the clas guide to illustrate this point. It might be a reliable indicator of cost of ownership....

remind me tomorrow when I'm at work, if you're interested in seeing that

Cheapest to put warranties on bc their rates of having to repair them are so low?

You "had to tell her to check out Subaru"...tell her to talk to me, i'll gush enough for anyone :)

Right... Or the easiest to work on, which I suspect has something to do with those low Suburubian rates. Since you can apparently disassemble the entire car with one 10mm socket wrench.

I so need to get me the correct wrench...

According to Jim, you already are the correct wench...

So, I ended up having to get a very used car while I repair my credit rating. Went from 719 to 514. :(

I ended up with yet another Hyundai Sonata, 2004, but a trim level below where I had been. Still a V6 just no moon roof. MY brand new snows will fit it. It's in pretty good shape but for some rust. I will be happy if I get 2 more years out of it. it's got 170K miles.

No moon roof to leak. Bonus, IMHO.

I thought that too, but even after ten years and kids running around on the roof of the car, never had a leak.

Use the old one for parts?

Too late. I let them junk it and I had no where to keep it.

Very little relationship exists between a warranty and quality. As I learned some 40 years ago when running a GM parts department.

They told me to get out all my warranty repair parts. A GM regional manager arrived to nickel and dime us on each warranty repair. DeLorean says why in his book. GM decided dealers were another profit center to rape. So they only gave us 10 to 25 cents on the dollar for each warranty.

Of course, that meant we did everything possible to deny or not honor a GM warranty.

GM restarted that program some years ago. Mechanics told me about one Cadillac with numerous warranty problems (before they even sold it). The GM rep arrived. Measured tire pressures. Found two tires that were more than 2 PSI from the recommended tire pressure. Then used that as the excuse to deny reinbursement for warranty repairs.

Best warranties are often an indication of a least reliable product. And not just for cars.

Zoom, right over his head. :rolleyes:

The Sonata is a great car, and a smart buy when you have brand-new snows that fit. Those aren't cheap and they're necessary anywhere that has a real winter.

This 40 year old information, like much of what you state as fact, is no longer valid. In 40 years, we have witnessed the advent of the fax machine, the microwave, the personal computer, the Internet, cell phones, etc, etc....

Why else would companies rate certain cars as more expensive to cover? Nissan even divides it's own vehicles into classes.
Class 1: Versa, Sentra, Cube, Altima, Juke, 2wd rogue, and 2wd frontier.
2: Maxima, Murano, Pathfinder, Quest, and 4x4 rogues and frontiers.
Class 3: Armada, Titan.
Class 4: Gt-R.
Class 5: NV, nvp, nv200.



I have witnessed Nissan extending large scale factory coverage for free twice since I've worked with them. The 04 Quest owners were all GIVEN two additional years of bumper to bumper coverage for free. The people that had bought security plus service contracts were mailed checks to pay them back and keep it fair. This was because those vans were really poor quality. Quite the opposite of what you claim about GM.

The other was a retroactive upgrade for all 2008-2010 cars with a CVT tranny to a 10yr- 120k term. Doubling the standard warranty. And not just for the original owner. This time because the cost of repair or rebuild was prohibitive.

http://www.nissanassist.com/faqs.php?menu=3

I know you have some resentment toward GM, but I highly doubt there is a 'program' in place to systematically deny warranty claims. Dealers sometimes try to get customers to pay for covered items.... And then go ahead and file that warranty claim as well (double dipping, stealing) but most reputable places won't do that. I'm frequently involved in connecting service with the claims people for the things I sell. My Rep reviews our claims ratio and adjusts our premiums periodically for things like tire coverage and key insurance...

Yes, I said key insurance. The fvcking keys are $300 a throw nowadays, so people want insurance... like what you buy with your cell phone.

I find the better warranties are found on cars with image issues.

Honda, Toyota, Nissan. The big 3. All three the same. You get 3yr/36,000 b-b, and 5yr/60k power train. No roadside assistance unless you get the service contract.

Because they sell even without anything better. I think that if any of them changes, the other two will follow suit.

Who has longer warranties? High line cars... And trust me, you're paying for it... As well as that free maintenance plan, BMW and Volvo people...
And the Makes that have had safety issues SUZUKI, reliability problems,.. Mitsu, and hyundai, Kia.... Because they have to in order to sell cars.

There was a scandal here last year, where the school district found out that the company servicing their school bus fleet had been doing this exact thing on all the buses for several years. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in maintenance fees that were actually covered by warranty. They're still in the process of suing.

Buy a good pre-computer car. My newest vehicle is my 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4. It's like a mini jeep. Parts are cheap and they are so simple to work on. Same goes for the Suzuki Samurai

Psst. That's got a computer, a couple of them.

But again, you are only saying what I have said for years - if not decades. The biggest warranties are often hype on the most inferior products.

The Cadillac warranty was denied in 2008. Numerous defects in a new car were dumped on a dealer because two tires had tire slightly low tire pressure. The program in 2008 was similar to one DeLorean described in the 1970s. GM crap products rightly deserved criticism. Their bankruptcy was due to shit products even decades earlier with names such as Hummer, Oldsmobile, and (some of the worst) Pontiac.

Dealers denying warranties have been observed over many decades. For example, a Geo (in the early days of Geo) dropped its transmission in pieces when the car was one year old to the day. A trail of parts beind the car. Dealer charged her for all work and parts. DeLorean said why. GM had been doing this 'dump warranty costs on dealers' for decades. Part of a larger program of playing spread sheet games.

A friend was told an air conditioner compressor on his two year old Cavalier failed because he used it in the winter. Bull. These tactics (lies) are routine on the most inferior products.

Companies with superior reliability do not hype big warranties. Will often honor warranties that are not advertised or widely known. Generally, the concept from responsible companies is, "That should not happen so we will pay." For example, my first Honda Accord at 12 years old had a rusted support bar. This part supported the engine, steering, and front wheels. At 12 years and with well over 100,000 miles, the dealer said, "That should not happen. Honda will replace it for free." Labor took four hours. The part probably cost $400. Wheels, steering gear, and engine had to be disconnected. I never paid a penny.

Due to superior quality and reliability, car companies run by 'car guys' have real world warranties; automaker reinburses the dealer. The concepts demonstrates even back in the 70s when Mazda paid for the rebuilding of every RX-2 and RX-3 rotary engine. Better quality products (not hyping big buck warranties) extend warranties when the product defect should not have happened. Good luck getting GM or Chrysler to have done that.

Best warranties exist with little fanfare. Products that imply mythical quality by hyping big warranties (ie GM, Chrysler) are often some of the worst products. Reliable products have warranties that remain unknown until a rare failure exists.

Big buck warranties are often found on other inferior products. Good luck getting a plug-in surge protector $25,000 warranty honored ... when those devices do not claim to protect from destructive surges. It even has a history of creating house fires. Another perfect example of a 'best' warranty identifying an inferior product.

If you want a reliable vehicle that handles great in crappy weather, get yourself an older Silverado. My '99 is a ROCK STAR. 215,000 miles and still going very strong. A good friend has the exact same year/make/model with 400,000 on it. Yeah, it only gets 15 mpg, but it's a trade-off I can live with.

Still zooms over tw's head. :rolleyes:
Nothing to do with manufacturers fixing their shit. No reputation protecting, no goodwill, no customer relations. It's selling warrantees on other people's cars. Strictly business, based on vehicle/model history, based on costs, actual spreadsheet numbers.

And I thought that would blow tw's skirt up, too. Here I am offering objective numbers.... Which is what he constantly harps on... Demands even... And he ignores it and goes all anecdotal on me... I think he might have actually agreed with my point about companies offering longer or more involved warranties in order to compensate for some other short coming.

Oh... I was way off about subaru, btw. They are all rated 4-5-6 by Nissan. I must have been thinking of the other company we use, EFG.

If I think of it Monday, and have time, I'll put both companies' rating tables up for reference.

I'd be very curious to see that information.

most of the ones I see were converted to carb like the 1.3 suzuki

Attachment 46680Attachment 46681

I guess there's no proprietary info here... no big secrets... but I don't think I'll say which company this is from... just in case I'm missing something.

so that is one of the class guides... and probably the more accurate depiction of the rick levels for each car. the other company lumps whole makes under on rating in many cases.

These are running around all over here in Baguio. They seem like exactly the right size for the roads here and have a 4x4 option that makes them good on the hills.

With gas running around $5 a gallon, the smaller engine seems like a good feature too.

And look at this, they're still in production today. $18,777

Thanks for posting that Jim. It's interesting.

So the higher the number, the higher the cost for a warranty?

What is this warranty? This is some sort of optional extra repair coverage you can buy? So if my coolant temperature sensor gets covered with crud and starts malfunctioning, causing the engine to stall, I can get it replaced for free?

Depending on the coverage level you choose, and which deductible.... Yes. What's even better is that it will only add $27 to your agreed upon payment. ;)

And this is offered only for new cars? Or is there some version for used cars, that is priced appropriately and with enough sneaky exemptions that they still make a profit?