Gruber on Obamacare
 

There has been a lot of accusations thrown after the 6 videos of Gruber came to light. How do you feel about the Affordable Care Act now that a hired government consultant admits the public was misled??

Link?

Of course, the things he claimed were hidden from the public are things that only dumb people would have problems with in the first place. Healthy people subsidize the sick - yeah, that's how insurance works. Whether the penalty is really a tax or not is an interesting point of law that eventually went to she Supreme Court, but it doesn't really matter to the people who pay it.

His views on the American public aren't flattering, but I'd say that those same views were successfully used by opponents of the law, so they were so some extent borne out.

Sorry, I forgot the links. Here's a few you can meander through:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/jonat...cks-1416009107

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...obamacare-and/

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-co...rks-rebellions

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama...ry?id=26919286

http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/14/fi...out-obamacare/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rubers-payday/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politi...use-obamacare/

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/1...ct-112886.html

I think MacGruber every time I hear his name.

Yippie Kai Yay, motherfucker.

puh. Much ado-doo about nothing.

*there have*

Wait, someone in "public service" has contempt for the public? Pretty sure that's a near universal affliction. How else can you assume to run their lives?

I am getting the feeling that many of you are comfortable with being lied to, especially if it for your own good because you are too stupid to understand the matter.

Gruber explains unapologetically that lying was politically necessary because the voting public would otherwise never have accepted the fundamentals of the ACA. He says that the Obama administration and ACA proponents strategically obscured the fact that the flawed legislation’s financing was based on a massive tax hike on the young and healthy. He also unmasks former Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, now secretary of state, whom Gruber calls a “genius” for his role in duping the public.

At a conference at the University of Pennsylvania last year, Gruber said that “the lack of transparency is a real political advantage” in passing legislation, then cheerfully added that “the stupidity of the American voter was really critical for the Affordable Care Act to pass.” Speaking of the American public in such demeaning terms in front of a camera shows a dangerous political smugness.

He also reveals the depths to which President Obama and the Democrats on Capitol Hill went to lie to the public in order to pass the ACA.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/o...#storylink=cpy

So many on here have condemned President Bush for misleading the populace during the Global War on Terrorism. Why aren't you rising up with torches now??

What did you just crawl out of the cabbage patch? That's how politicians have operated since the beginning of time. Accentuate the positive, obscure the negative, and get reelected ad infinitum. :rolleyes:

So far he sounds more honest than most. Most continue to insist they told the truth - even to the bitter end.

And as for Bush et al - they lied to take your (and others) country to war. Sent men and women to fight, to kill and die in a foreign land on the basis of a lie. That trumps massaging the truth to try and get a needed health policy past an ignorant and determinedly hostile populace*



* no I don't mean Americans are uniquely ignorant - we all are pretty much.

Dana - Perhaps Bush thought he was doing it for the good of the nation by forcing militant Islamists to fight in SW Asia and limit their ability to conduct large scale attacks in the US? Would that be ok with you as long as he had good intentions? BTW, I believe Bush did not lie. Based upon my experience, I believe their were weapons of mass destruction that were moved to Syria and Saddam conducted a military deception program.

In another thread, it was voiced it was ok for Clinton to commit perjury because of the nature of inquiry. Now we have an administration that has been caught lying to the public and government entities to legislation. An administration knowing that insurance premiums would rise for young adults and by 2020, over 40% of work based health insurance would be eliminated.

Interesting that so many of you feel it is ok for politicians to commit criminal acts and actively deceive you as long as their are liberals.

It's got bugger all to do with liberal versus conservative. Our prime minister at the time ofthe Iraq war was the leader of the Labour party - my party at the time. He also lied - and I consider him to have betrayed his country, his party and parliament in doing so.

It is to do with the content and context of the deception.

Dana Sarge - Perhaps Bush Obama thought he was doing it for the good of the nation by forcing militant Islamists to fight in SW Asia and limit their ability to conduct large scale attacks in the US? ensuring those in need have health insurance, that those who use their insurance don't end up bankrupt, and to get the sick poor out of the ER and into their PCP? Would that be ok with you as long as he had good intentions?

Dude, you drank the Kool Aid. Look in the mirror.
See above.

I don't think Clinton lied. A blow job is not "having sex". :p:

Gruber is the liar. I am getting the feeling that many of you are comfortable with being lied to, especially if it for your own good because you are too stupid to understand the matter.

I'll be honest, I don't understand where the deception is in all this. Setting aside the exact numbers, many people here on the Cellar knew the above would happen. It's a logical, given result based on the changes that were being made. Young healthy people defray the costs for old sick people. That's the entire purpose of insurance. That's how it works. And work-based insurance should go away. It's a bad system that has contributed greatly to the problem. Why would anyone think that adding a new system (the free market policy exchange) wouldn't reduce the number of people on the old system? If they thought that, they weren't deceived, they were just dumb.

I haven't paid any attention to the Gruber guy because I remember it the same way as Clodfobble. I remember one clear lie though, but at the time I knew it was an obvious lie and I assumed others did too, because the truth had been told enough times that the lie was clearly a contradiction. Obama said on numerous occasions just before the passage that you wouldn't lose your old insurance if you have some, when what he meant to say was that you wouldn't lose your old insurance as long as it met the minimum requirements.

That was a lie, but anyone paying attention knew what he meant. He kept repeating it though.

There were multiple exemptions given to various groups, which I didn't like. And there were some other stupid political compromises rolled in to the bill that I can't remember off the top of me head. So there was some crap in Obamacare. But it was very clear what the overall thing was.

And the people and organizations opposing Obamacare were spreading so many lies. Nothing they said was true. I was willing to forgive Obama's lie about not losing your insurance if you have some. Remember the death panels scare? Holy shit. Such liars. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

My memory of the process tracks right alongside Clodfobble's and glatt's. Especially the part about Obama's "lie" about not losing one's insurance. It was an oversimplification, further simplified into something that he didn't say and something that wasn't right.

You know, back when the Obamacare bill was being debated and discussed and lied about, there was a point that I realized I really didn't have much of an idea what it was all about. When you get your information from politicians, filtered through the biased media of your choice, you really aren't going to have any idea what the real story is. Maybe that's what Gruber (who I still haven't paid any attention to) is calling a lie. Every politician and special interest group was spinning this thing. It's like the story of the blind guys describing an elephant while feeling the different parts and coming up with completely different things.

At the time, I finally went and read the summary of what Obamacare actually was, so I then had a good understanding of it. That's how I knew Obama's oversimplification was wrong.

Anybody who didn't bother to actually read what Obamacare was, and instead relied on politicians to spin it for them is going to get it wrong.

Sarge, I'd be interested to hear what lies Obama allegedly told (other than the "you get to keep your insurance" oversimplification.)

But glatt, why read that boring stuff when the internet is flooded with emails telling you it's bad.

Gruber was a credible numbers cruncher, so he was used to do the calculations, then hired to do be the face of the calculations, not the face of Obamacare. He was recorded on video, being hired help making off the cuff statements of opinion, he probably believed to be common knowledge.

He saw flaws in the system, we all did. They were introduced into the bill as a result of juggling several very powerful, well funded groups. Insurance companies, Drug companies, Hospital corporations, Medical Device makers and the AMA. It can still work better than what we had, with everyone getting on board to make it work, especially the state Governors.

But why settle for that, when what it really needs is for the politicians to tweak it. They have the power to fix the flaws if they stop playing politics, stop being obstructionists, stop lying, and do what's best for the people for a change.

But that probably won't happen because the American public is stupid, they'll keep believing the emails and reelecting their rapists.

To me the appalling thing is that political opponents no longer seem to attack opponents programs on the facts. Instead of making hay with the mandatory nature of Obamacare or Obamas lies about keeping your old program, they go with death panel bullshit or pretend medicare isn't a government program. We are at a point where nobody can admit their opponent has a value system they're making choices based upon.

Gruber's statements are unremarkable.

The attempt by the Right to capitalize on his remarks is unremarkable.

The attempt by the Left to minimize his remarks is unremarkable.

This is a non-story.

Because they can, it works because Americans are stupid. Guess Gruber was right. ;)