What do u wonder about CHINA ?
 

Now ,we r suffering SARS, it's a big challenge.
What else do u want to know about China ?
i'm a college student in Shan Dong ,east of China.
My English is poor,but , u can get me,aren't u ?
Ok, we can talk everything about my Homeland !

Billy has started a similar thread, but let me ask both of you this question: How did you find us here at the Cellar? It's always interesting to see how people stumble upon us.

Ooh! Let me ask you this: What would you have as a typical dinner in China? For example, on a typical evening, my fiance and I might eat lasagna (an italian dish consisting of flat wide noodles, with ricotta and parmesan cheese, beef, and tomato sauce).

Know you here
 

I know you in one Chinese forum (www.tianyaclub.com) English section. The writer said that he/she hard seahed it by google.com. So I come here. I unimagine it is so cool here.

Re: Know you here
 

Haha, it is a marvel ! "The writer said that he/she hard seahed it by google.com. "---- I happened to write an article about that Look Here , the world is so small ,isn't it ?


Typical dinner ? How do u think, Billy ? Rice , i think ,it's the main food ; there are also many dishs, such as "Hong Shao" Pork ,u know ,i don't know how to say it ,but it's very delicious !
(personly speaking,i love "eggs &tomatos )

Hi Al, I see you're about 2000km north of Billy and about parallel with our mid-atlantic states. I also noticed Beijing is much further north than I have thought and China extends way above Korea.
The recent influx of Chinese to the Cellar has made me revisit my geography lessons. That's good. :D
Has your area had the build up of industry and commerce that Foshan has?
Do the local people resent different ethnics speaking different dialects coming in to take jobs?

Thank you. I am wondering this about China very much:

Many way are there to talk here from your country to you? Who there can say yes or no to your internet? Who is controlling allocations of IP addresses and access from them? Is there much watching of the internet by many of the government and the People's Liberation Army?

Thank you very much.

I have posted it top other section
 

Thank you for introducing me to come so cool website. Your English is wonderful. Where are you from and what do you do?

I have posted my view about China food in other section of this web. You can go to see it.

Good communication
 

Yeah, it is a good way that you know us and we know you. Now I just answer you and forget to ask you. I will ask you soon. OK?

I'm in the capital city of Shandong--Ji'nan.I have not been to Foshan,so i can't tell Ji'nan from Foshan. Ji'nan is a city of more than 2k years history ,do u know Confucius ? He's born here :)
We do have build up industry and commerce here,but it is still under develping, whose GDP is higher ? I don't know .

Since I'm not a native here in Shandong, i have to say people here r kind-hearted, hardworking and of great hospitality, welcome to Shandong :D

By the way ,do u know Haier ? a most famous brand in China, it's in Shandong ,too .

I am from PuYang, Henan Province
 

Han, I from Puyang, near Ji'nan. Many my middle school calssmates study there and work in ShanDong. I have not been to Ji'nan. I know if famous as Spring City. But now there are few spring in the city. Confucius, China old famous ideologist and philosopher, was born, teached and lived in Shandong.

There r many ISP here , it's just up to your money :D
"Who is controlling allocations of IP addresses and access from them? "---exactly i don't know ,but i haven't have any problem of that yet .
Our government and PLA have their own job to do , and , if they r watching we all the day , how can i talk here at Cellar ?
:D

Al, you can't assume you're not being watched just because they have not stopped you. I don't see anything that you've said here that would upset them. I always assume that "someone" is aware of everything I do in public. The internet and telephones are public.

Someday Billy is going to stop posting here and we will all wonder ... did he just move on, or did he hear the knock of authority on his door ...

I will go on
 

I am falling in love you, Cellar.org. I see you many times one day. I dream to hold you in night. I hope to chat with you every day. You teach me more here. I feel coming back in school class, siting beside one coffee table.

I plan to the USA in China New Year holiday to meet oenm my freiend and contact schools. I don't know if I can get one visa. It is difficult to get one now.

Billy, did you mean you're in love with the Cellar or in love with Wolf, like everyone else?;)

Like all of us
 

We have a good time here. Thank you for chating with me. I have fun here and feel like having coffee with friends.

Same here, Billy. Although it would more likely be beer than coffee.
You've brought a lot of information and a new perspective to us. Speaking for myself, I've enjoyed it.
By the way, where's Al? He started this thread. Did the police get him?

AL in bed with girls
 

Maybe he stay in bed with girl. The police would go home and no mind to care him. I have no girl friend. Maybe the Cellar is one my girl friend.It is 22:20 PM. I need go home to go to bed.

Billy is 12 hours ahead of us (US East Coast)...I figured it was more than that.

en, xoxoxoBruce, u r right ! i don't care about that , i'm free till i'm not !


Billy , thought it's not easy to get a visa, i just could wish u good luck . :D

Thanks, AL
 

Thank you. What job do you do?

I don't know if I get one but I will try my best. I would ahve no pity then.

:blush:

I love you too, man, but no, you can't have my Tsing Tao ...

Well.. can I snap a few photos?:D

shoot me
 

I wait your taking.

You want copies, Billy? Is that it?

How come we're not hearing from the other Chinese lately.
Did they find out you are a government agent?:D

I want
 

Yeah, I want to see if you can send me.

There are few girls. They want to see beautiful girls. How do you think if I tell you that I am a Chinese Communist Party member?

I've never seen Wolf so I don't know if she's beautiful on the outside.
I only know she's beautiful on the inside.;)

Billy or Al, what does your money look like?

Ren Min Bi
 

Do you want to see China RMB that means the people's currency? The new RMB are red color. The 100, 50, 20, 10, 5 papaer notes have the head portrait of Chairman Mao. I don't like his head portrait, but I have no way to select. I like seeing old ones that are China beautiful vista. I will send you one by letter if you really want to see or you change one in Bank of China.

Lot of RMB
 

The red are new RMB and the blue are old. Give you as one gift.

It saddens me, because the Communist Party is an enemy to freedom. But I do not think worse of you for joining it.

Thanks, but no thanks. You better save them in case you get a visa.:D

Since the Communist Party is the only party, being a member is the only way to have ANY input into how things are run. I was taught in school that in the CCP the power comes from the top but maybe ideas and attitude can worm there way up from the bottom. It's better than doing nothing.
And maybe the party has groupies.:rolleyes:

If China's CP is anything like Cuba's, joining the party is the only way to really get anything, so I wouldn't fault someone for doing it.

It's not fair to conclude " the Communist Party is an enemy to freedom". I don't know how do u get to that, maybe it has something to do with our 1960's "Culture Revolution"
and , that's the main reason , our propaganda and yours.

Things have changed during these decades. Yes , we do have our own problems , we r working hard on them and want communication and comprehension. Chairman Mao -- sorry,he's a C.P,too -- ;) said: the only way to know what pear taste is to taste it by yourself. So ,if possible , come HERE and see what u want,but not now-- we r suffing SARS.I wish it wouldn't be long to welcome u to my country.

By the way ,my girlfriend is a C.P too ,i feel well all the time! :D

Freedom given by CCP
 

You misunderstand the Chinese Communist Party. The CCP led us to drive the colonists away, die out feudalism system and bulid new R.R China. The China people feel that we are free since the new People's Republic of China bulit. According to their doing, they helped us to gain freedom. Now they are still doing that. But we think the freedom is not same as you have. You use your standard to judge our freedom. It is unfair.

The CCP is not only party in China. We have other eight democracy parties. They have helped government to administer the national affair.

The CCP are trying to bulid a democracy and freedom country. At least we have a speed economy, not poor as that oof ago. There are many party pioneers to encourage us to go ahead.

OK. Just a reminder, though. If you see a question on the TOEFL about the word "freedom", they want you to use my definition, not yours.

whoa Billy.
I know it's not your main language but, when you use english to communicate, the word freedom has a defined meaning. That's what a dictionary is for.
Sure, we compare (judge) how much freedom you have by what we learn about how people live in China. We learn this from many sources. By coming to the Cellar you give us another source.
In the US we have lost some freedoms just because of the population density. Sometimes they pass laws so that really stupid people don't hurt anyone else. BUT, compared to other places in the world, we still have a great deal of freedom.
To say it is unfair to compare(judge) how much freedom you have in China, to what we have, is not true. There is nothing unfair about making comparisons.
You may have 10 times as much freedom as you had a few years ago but you still have a ways to go. There are a lot of countries that give their people more freedom than China.
That's not being judgemental or unfair. Simply comparing.
There are countries that have more freedom and a lower standard of living. Freedom does not guarantee a full belly.

I misunderstood "Freedom"
 

I know what you say. Maybe I misunderstood your freedom. you gave me a lesson. We feel free compare our past. Freedom that you say is compared to other countries. I think it the difference. In TOEFL test we can not shoy any politics, discrimination. I think we have very long way to go to get the real and more freedom. The people should strive for freedom. No one can not give you if you strive for it. I don't know if I should emigrate from China to other countries for freedom. Or I stay in China to struggle for freedom.

In China the government is afriad that the west "freedom" would destroy China saftey and make socialism into capitalism. We fear we would have one second "Culture Revolution". In that time the people have too much freedom to battle other people, not enjoy freedom. No law protects individual freedom. We heavily look up on collective freedom. Only when we have and follow the laws, we can have the freedom.

If you need to see the difference between Communism and Capitalism, just look at North and South Korea.

An identical people, with identical culture. South Korea is thriving, exporting sophisticated products, becoming rich. Producing computer parts that compete in quality with Japan.

North Korea is completely dependent on gifts from other nations, exports only prohibited weapons and drugs, and 2 million of its people may die of hunger this year.

I don't know if North Koreans feel this "collective freedom" that you speak of. I know there will be fewer of them to feel anything soon. I know that free countries do not suffer famines and that India produced enough for its people only after it de-nationalized the farmers.

Don't forget that North Korea uses the traditional Korean alphabet, while South Korea adds Chinese characters in their alphabet.

(Sorry...had to throw that in there.)

Re: I misunderstood "Freedom"
 

Would more freedom and more capitalism be a BAD thing? It seems to me that to allow one's people to create their OWN wealth, taking advantage of the limitless opportunity of a free and open market is always a good thing. As long as there is a financial incentive to do so, namely making (and keeping) a profit. This is the heart of the capitalist way. Seems to work for us, as long as the government keeps out of the way. But that's another story.

Brian

What!:eek:
No kidding, what are they? Where are they? How big are they? What do they do? Do you have elections? If so, for what level office? Tell me more.

About them
 

They distribute all over China. The qantity is very smaller than the CCP. They supervise the CCP work. It is very difficult to apply to join the Parties. I don't how to translate their name into English. I know little about them. I have posted your problem in Chinese web. I will reply you if I search more information. I am sorry for that.

The China System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation
 

The offiical page shows the System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation for your information.System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation

Shall we go on at "Socialism Vs Capitalism" ?

That's very interesting ,Billy. It would appear the 8 parties function the same way large labor unions and lobbying groups work here.
The 8 try to influence the CCP, but they really have no power because they don't have a voting block.
All power is controlled by the CCP and flows down from the top.
The 8 are like children that are allowed play in the yard, but the parent dictates the yard and what games are allowed.

Sure, Al.
Very complex question but basically two forms of government that differ in there basic theory.
Capitalism gives the individual responsibility for themselves.
Socialism gives the government responsibility for everyone.
You have neither.

I think you are falling into the trap of seeing capitalism and communism in black and white terms. Many nations have socialist and capitalist aspects - like Japan and Sweden. They are not like oil and water. For instance, America is not even a pure capitalist economy. Most economists agree that pure capitalism is as unmanagable as is pure communism.

China has been making a great deal of progress. I would love to see the establishment of a set bill of rights similar to the U.S. constitution's bill of rights. That would not necessarily mean that the communist party had to suppress speech or tolerate dissent, they can simply adopt the American style of public coercion.

I think that China is part of the reason for our current war on terrorism. I am quite sure that the land grab in Iraq was an effort to seize control of the levers of oil power before China became a challenging force. China will need a massive amount of oil if it is to grow into the industrial powerhouse that it can be. I think that we will be controlling that oil to a large extent and that we will be at odds with them in a few years - if the neocons stay in power. I think that China will be the leader internationally in biotech and cloning in a few years if we keep the same ideologues in office.

But anyway - what were we talking about?

Oh yeah - i wonder how the Chinese people feel about government censorship of the news and the net. Is there even an awareness about this among the population?

To be pedantic, nobody has either.

Shhhh, we haven't got to that yet. Continue spanking.:D

Press freedom
 

We can not say what capitalism and socialism is ok. They all have their advantages. The system is good if it can give people freedom and happy life. It is difficult to say what is ok.

Now the people,especial people come from the west, stive for the press freedom.I don't know why the government want to censor the press. But it is ok now. In China the freedom is a history problem. We need resolve it in progress.We don't hope that the west overthrow the society system by the press ideology. The people have their right to select system. We select the socialism because only the socialism can liberate the old China.

You don't know why the government wants to censor the press? Isn't it obvious?

You are a super China FAN
 

What you say is right. The 8 parties have not so power to control the government. Only one CPC manage the national affair in China. But the 8 parties have the power in consensus

No one is arguing that revolution would be a good idea. I don;t necessarily think that communism is bad. China is not a Marxist communist society anyway - Mao chose his own brand of socialism.

The government needs to control the media and the press because it makes shaping history to one's advantage easy. It allows government to mold the public's opinion and it contributes to broad initiatives led by a tiny faction of insiders. Every government does this to some degree. China, and the Soviet Union/Eastern Bloc countries went over the top with their desires to censor dissent and manipulate the public. The U.S. took a more subtle approach- relying on advertising techniques and public fear in order to create the desired political atmosphere.

The U.S. tolerates fringe movements, but since they are weakly funded they can be relegated to the margins by the mass media. Most people know a nice fiction about AMerican history that was taught in high school - but few actually learn the real history of the U.S.. Our news media is partially responsible for this. We have a media system that ceaselessly bombards viewers with junk news filler in order to maintain a steady rate of fear among the credulous. This did not start out as a methood of public manipulation, this system naturally arose through the growth of corporate media and their desire to curry favor with the people in power.

I agree that it wasn't marxist communism but I do think it was Mao's communism. After Mao, China moved toward its own version of socialism. As Happy Monkey pointed out, nobody has true socialism (or capitalism) but I think China is still closer to communism. This is probably due to the desire of the government AND the people to avoid the upheavals of the past. If the people see more freedoms and more wealth. I doubt if they will care whether they can participate in the government or not.
Care to comment, Al ?

China's entering the morden world should be defined at 1978 -- though we "liberated" in 1949-- so we just started. We have spend a long time in arguing "Socialism Vs Capitalism", but we get nothing . Now we don't think that's the most important problem anymore (for most people ), instead ,we concern about wealth and prosperity. We young generation care more about how to find our value and then we hope OUR COUNTRY become more and more powerful.

Ideology do take a part but not the biggest one . At the end of 19th century we declined and want way re-prosperity , we tried to go capitalism way but failed. If u know the history about China in Ming and Qing Empire , u will agree it's inevitable that we choose Socialism.


Russell said that , multiformity makes the world wonderful !

Thanks for the input. I think socialism is a natural choice for China. Actually most of the countries are moving that way in one form or another. As I tried to state in my last post, I think the people are more concerned with a better standard of living first.
China is already one of the most powerful nations. Do you mean powerful or influential?

If capitalism was a failure compared to China's 20th century, it's hard to imagine. Look at this graphic:

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?threadid=189

How many people killed by Chinese Communism?

How people were killed by the US?
 

Like in the Iraq War many people were killed by the US. In time peace time the US still kill other countri's people by "giving them freedom". The Culture R is past. We all think it is wrong. In recent time there are few people killed by Chinese Communism. I don't wkno where you get the data.

that's what i want say, Billy .