Billboard
 

This is an image that I was directed to by some online acquaintances. My sentiments exactly. :)

http://www.thespiritof76.com/peta.jpg

My thoughts are: Eat what you like, just don't get pissed off when a mountain lion mauls you, a wolf kills your cattle, a gator eats your dog, or a elephant tramples you at the local zoo.

But let's face it, if it kills a human it's bad and must be immediately hunted down and killed. If we kill it, that's because "we're at the top of the food chain". Is there a 'two faced' icon/smilies I can use here?

Quzah.

Hmmm... beef.

Mmmmm...meat.;)

Although these statements are true, something tells me you were being sarcastic.

Truth is subjective. It's like beauty, all in the eye of the beholder.

Quzah.

If you truly hold this position, you can hold no other.


There is an objective truth. It is approximable (if not discoverable) by human beings.

(beauty ain't totally subjective either..)

Love animals. They're delicious.

Ob/Sub Jective
 

About everything? I've discussed this with my brother, a philosophy/math history double major, who holds a similar opinion. Do you think there is an objective truth about everything? Even beauty? Is there a "most beautiful" person on Earth, but the people who aren't impressed with that person's looks are fundamentally wrong?

i have a bumper sticker on my college size fridge that says
"Save a tree,
kill a bever."

:D

Mine said, "SAVE A TREE....eat a beaver".;)

So everything you're told is true, you accept?

Everything you believe to be true, you're sure is? The 'truth' we're told is that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. That's the truth, and they're sticking to it. However, there really is no evidence of any such. As a matter of fact, the report that supposedly lead us into battle has since been dubbed 'inaccurate'.

Ok, so the 'truth' at the time, was that there was information of WoM in Iraq. We made them a state so that we could get their oil, I mean, we invaded them to liberate them from their evil leaders, because they had these dangerous WoM.

So the 'truth' at the time was one thing, but in reality, it wasn't true at all. However, many many people accepted this 'reality' as truth.

Perhaps I should have used a better word. Something like "Truth is whatever people can convince you of." Would that be better?

You see, like I said, truth, like beauty, is in fact in the eye of the beholder.

Furthermore, what I find to be beautiful, you may find revolting, and vice versa. Or perhaps not revolting, but maybe it doesn't quite "stir the soul", [dusty rhodes]if you weel[/dusty rhodes].

Beauty, like truth, is what ever people think it is. This is generally based on society as a whole. For example, people liked "heavier" women in the past, just look at examples of art. Now, popular culture seems to fancy women who are thin as a rail with huge plastic breasts. To each his own I say. But I'll stand by the statement: Truth, like beauty, is subjective.

Quzah.

I have ten fingers. This is true.

Mind explaining to me how this is up for debate?

Truth and what we believe to be true (or what we're told is true) can be two completely different things. There is one objective truth about the weapons in Iraq before the war. That is indisputable. Whether we ever know that truth remains to be seen, but that doesn't mean that truth doesn't exist.

Quote:

Perhaps I should have used a better word. Something like "Truth is whatever people can convince you of." Would that be better?

No, that is still an incorrect statement. As Mulder said, "the truth is out there." If people convince you that 2 + 2 = 5, that doesn't make it true, it just makes you wrong. There is only one truth.

I think I understand what Quzah is trying to say.

There is certainly undisputable truth out there. Unfortunately people are not always completely truthful via the use of half-truths. At the same time, our interpretations of the truth may differ. I may interpret an undisputable fact as one thing, while Quzah sees it differently.

Sure, you can say you have ten fingers, but how does that make it true to me? You could scan your hands and post a picture, but then that still doesn't prove anything, because they could be some one else's hands.

Carry this over to religion. Many people state that their belief system is "the truth", and they immediately damn everyone else. But why is yours true? Simply because you believe it? The fact of the matter is, none of them "know" it's the "truth", they simply convince themselves it is so, so it is.


Actually, I've been told that it is possible to prove 2+2=5. My cousin was in a math class where they did a proof which was able to turn out said result. If we wander together over to google it seems we have our answer.


Indeed. It's like when you had to take tests in school. True or false tests. If any part of the answer was true, you were supposed to mark true. Yet, at the same time, part of the answer could be false, while the whole sum of it was still considered to be true.

Truth is what you can convince others, or yourself, of. We don't even begin to scratch the surface of the mind here. There are people who have 100% conviction that a given statement is fact, and even when shown "proof" to the contrairy, cannot or will not accept the new as true.

Think about it: Everything you know as "true" is simply because you were led to believe it. That my friend, is true.

Quzah.

I understand what he's trying to say too; he's just using incorrect terminology.

Quote:

Truth is what you can convince others, or yourself, of. We don't even begin to scratch the surface of the mind here. There are people who have 100% conviction that a given statement is fact, and even when shown "proof" to the contrairy, cannot or will not accept the new as true.

Truth does not vary from person to person. What they believe is true surely does, but not what is true. It doesn't matter who accepts it.

The Earth is round. It always has been (well, at least since humans have been around). Yet not too long ago everyone thought it was flat. When it was in fact discovered to be round, truth did not change. The truth is that it was round all along, and no one knew it.

Even today, there is a Flat Earth Society that believes the earth is flat. Does this mean that the truth is different for them? No. What they believe to be true may be different, but <B>there is only one truth</B>, and it is that the earth is round.

When it gets to my plate it's got no face and definitely not running away.:D

Sure, quzah. But that doesn't change the fact that I have ten fingers.

I'm a vegetarian, but I still found this amusing:

Vegetables are not food; vegetables are what food eats.
Fruit are vegetables that fool you by tasting good.
Fish are fast-moving vegetables.
Mushrooms are what grows on vegetables when food's done with them.
-- Meat Eater's Credo

Posted by Quzah:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dave
I have ten fingers. This is true.

Mind explaining to me how this is up for debate?
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Sure, you can say you have ten fingers, but how does that make it true to me? You could scan your hands and post a picture, but then that still doesn't prove anything, because they could be some one else's hands.



Just because it can't be proven to your satisfaction doesn't make it not true.

I see valid points in what both Tob and Quzah are saying, but I think the differences are philosophical in the end.

I like what I said the best, so fuck all of you. :)

Just because you believe it, doesn't mean it's true.

Quzah.

If God didn't want us to eat cows, then why would he make them out of steak!!?

You can't beat logic with a stick.

No, but you can beat logic with a steak!:D

It does until you prove otherwise.;)