Discrimination
 

What next? Good grief. :rolleyes:

I don't hold with treating others differently based on the color of their skin. But I think that goes both ways. Is there an American Indian award? How about a German-American award? The list could go on. Why not have a distinguished student award, and call it a day? Then the issue would never have arisen.

Another thing is the play on words that, I think, was intended on the PC term "African American". There are a lot of shades of people from Africa. Would the issue be different if the posters were of a student from Egypt?

This is the kind of nonsense you can get into when you try to treat symptoms instead of problems. People have to learn to see all people as brothers. Are we there yet? Not by a darn sight. Was the school's response helpful. I don't think so.

If they want to honor MLK day. Why don't they give an award to the student (white, black, or in between) who best exemplifies the principles he stood for?

Probably not, Dar512, as the white student was from Africa. Your post is spot on.:)

I think if people want racism to go away, the first thing that must go is "racial pride".

That means affirmative action must go, that means "negro college fund" must go, that means "hisoricaly black" colleges must go and things like "Society of Black Engineers" and awards that only "Affrican Americans" are eligble for.

It's sickening frankly. You ever seen a "white college fund" or a "Society of White Engineers"?

HAHAH, no way! That'd be racist!

Because if they gave it to anyone but an African-American, there is a high likelihood that it would be seen as an insult.

I find this incredibly amusing, as the awardee was probably the ONLY actual African-American in the class.

His other classmates were Americans.

(I think I've ranted on the hyphenated American thing before, so I'll stop here.)

Funny: the only people that I hear saying things like this are the ones that are not truly affected by racism...intesting.

Don't tell people to get over the past when it's still haunting their
present. "Jeff"

Right. Because only black people are truly affected by racism. And any black people who DO say such things are anything from abberations to hypocrites (if they've benefited from that which they oppose) to race traitors, right?

She didn't say that...

I don't think you have to be a horse to understand horse racing. I don't think you have to be black to be offended by racism.

But I didn't see any racism in this story. At least, I didn't see the racism you saw in it. I saw some kids trying to make a joke about political correctness, racial terminology and maybe reverse racism. If only African-Americans are allowed to get this award, isn't that racism of another sort?

I'd like to see a world where all people are able to succeed based solely on their merits, not on their skin color, nation of origin, or choice of religion (or lack of religion for that matter).

I think I can honestly say that I am affected by racism when I get a smaller scholarship and am eligble for fewer scholarships simply because I'm white.

But of course thats not your idea of racism....no no no. Thats affirmative action!

Here's a little something for you. When I started my freshment year at Drexel in Information Systems in 2000, we have about 30 black/hispanic students with massive scholarships. It is now my 4th year (5 year program), fairly sure only about 10 of those are left. It gets better, they all had scholarships of some sort - yet the ones that I talked to had lesser SAT scores and school GPA than a friend of mine who had NO scholarship.

I'm not trying to say that black/hispanic studnets are stupid. I know they're not. But they do get the "easy" way in, get more benifits and yet claim to be oppressed. They get into colleges with lesser grades, lesser desire to learn, get scholarships and then drop out. Those 20 spots could have been filled by more deserving students and the money could have been better distributed.

Yeah I don't know racism at all...

Why can't we all just be Americans? What ever happened to American pride? I thought there was this huge fight for integration a couple decades back and all these black thises and negro thats are just segregating the nation. Why can't there just be awards for outstanding students where ALL students can participate and not just the blacks? It's sad, just sad.:confused:

LOL, thanks, I was just thinking..."Where in the fuck did they come up with THAT???"
:p

African-American: Having citizenships in an African state and an American state (nothing to do with the color of skin)

Native American also indigenous American: Born in an American state

Asian-American: Having citizenships in an Asian state and an American state (nothing to do with the color of skin)

Please note that there are 3 Americas, North America, Central America and South America

State is another meaning for country.

Funny...I've never heard such moaning over what people call themselves culturally. Never. (that wasn't directed at you Felines, just in general).

It seemed to be perfectly ok to say "Irish-American" "Italian-American" and so forth, but as soon as "African-American" comes into the picture, suddenly it's nuclear meltdown time with some folk...goddamn! In fact, it seemed perfectly ok for the Irish, Italians, etc. who were born in America to just call themselves "Irish" or "Italian" and they weren't even born in Ireland or Italy!!!! Imagine that! They're allowed to identify themselves by culture, but blacks suddenly can't?? That's bullshit.

*pissed...* :mad: (again not at you, but in general)

Understood, but I said "affected" not "offended". Any and everyone should be offended by racism, classism, sexism, etc.

I couldn't agree with you more. People ask me if I'm Polish. Nope. I'm native American. "Oh! What tribe?" "No, you don't understand, I was born here, too."

Let's all dump the Whatever-American and just call ourselves American because that's what we are. No more, no less. Darker skinned people are no more African than I am from Russia. The abuse of the English language for the sake of political correctness is appalling.

Ever been chased down the street by a gang of kids with bats solely based on the color of your skin?

That happened to my father when he was a kid living in the Cherry Hill section of Baltimore City.

Ever been turned down for a promotion based on race?

Again, he was (years ago), working for the Social Security Administration.

Ever been called a nigger? Again, my father hasAND I HAVE, so if the answers to those questions is NO, then NO I feel that you DON'T know racism at it's deepest and nastiest.

What happens regarding schools and scholarships is a drop in the bucket compared to half the shit that still goes on out there to "minorites". What happened to James Byrd in Texas was only about 6 years ago, not 20, 30, 40, 100 years ago, and as long as shit like that can still happen, then there will always be problems with "race relations" in America.

Ah but there is something to be said about ethnic/cultural pride that FNF thinks is so "wrong". But, you made a good point regarding the whole "American" tag. You said that you were BORN here, so yes you are American, but that's not where "your people" are from, so to speak. Everyone has immigrant ties, no matter how your forefathers and mothers came here, willingly or by force. I guess I don't consider "country of birth" as "ethnic background". Plus, isn't it sort of redundant to say that you are American when asked by another American (unless you appear to be from another country).

Many people enjoy identifying themselves by culture, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I hear Latinos all the time saying, "I'm Puerto Rican" or "I'm Mexican" etc. Or, "Oh I was born here, but my people are from...." So, I don't see where the problem lies...people can identify themselves however the hell they please. It's not up to me to tell them what to say. *shrugs*

I described a couple of incidents in another reply in this thread.

My people come from Earth.

Actually, I don't claim to have any "people". I have a family: my mom, my husband, sisters, etc. I guess they're my "people".

I'm just sick and tired of everyone wanting to be a victim. "They made me do it" attitudes are cop outs. No one wants to own up to their actions or lack thereof. Come on! Whatever happened to good old fashioned honest work?

All those things are evil and the people who did them should be punished. However, I don't think that makes what those boys did wrong.

I was small, weak, and bookish in school - and I got beaten up a number of times. Do I deserve a scholarship for that? Where does it end if we take the view that society owes some group special privileges.

Give me a fricking break...

Chased down by kids with bats? It's ok, really. Assholes will find a reason not to like you no matter what color you are. Had he been white, they might have chased him down because they thought he was a fag or looked at them the wrong way. Whoop dee doo.

Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days. Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing? Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.

Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash. Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs...

Quit blowing the idiotic shit out of proportion. The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.

Yeah I may not have been called a nigger or chased around with bats for being black, because I'm not black; they had to find a diffrent reason. Despite being white, people found just as many reasons not to like me. Oh and in middle school there was this black kid who liked to call me "white Russian shit", why I don't know. It never bothered me much and I never saw it as a "race" thing, I saw it as being "different".

You're no worse off than I am, black or white, there is always something to hate. Maybe you would have been worse off way back when slavery was perfectly fine, but that was a long time ago, and times change. I don't see the Jews demand compensation from the Egyptians for the pyramids. Deal with it.

It's actually known now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the pyramids.

I think that culturally separating yourself from other people like that actually causes racism.

Racism is caused by people not understanding anything about a culture.They only see the differences and not the similarities. They say, "He ain't like us.. let's git 'im!". If, instead of separating themselves culturally, blacks made an effort to show others that they are just like everyone else, there would be less racism. This would be incredibly easy, since we have a lot more in common that we have different. But instead, blacks take their uniqueness as a sense of empowerment. That's great for them, but what about the people who still don't understand them?

With that said, I know it's not really such a black and white issue (ha!), and I think a lot of people <i>have</i> actually realized that there is little to no discernible difference, and racism is much less as a result.

You've just never been around when I go into my "I'm an American, not a hyphenated one, dammit" speech.

I actually feel strongly about this issue as well.

One of the deals of being an AMERICAN is that our forebears gave up alliegances and ties to their former homes, and embraced this NEW country.

This was the case up until only recently in our country's history, actually.

The extraterrestrials that did the initial design work helped them.

Until you have heard a white person confide his racism to you its hard to understand what black folk have to put up with. I grew up in backwater Georgia and I've had things told to me "in confidence" that I really didn't need to hear. Things that were pretty shocking in terms of what they revealed is really going on out there.

What I'm hearing a lot of in this thread is many people who do not harbor racists viewpoints attempting to advance the argument that racism really isn't that prevalent anymore. An easy trap to fall into - I don't see it so it must be paranoia on the victim's part.

Its not the obvious James Byrd stuff. Its much more subtle and much more insidious than that. Sometimes I wonder if all Dr. King did was push racism underground. Again, until you have enountered a true racist you are not seeing the whole picture.

As Chris Rock said while onstage to a mostly white audience, "I'm black and I'm rich and not one of you mother-fuckers would even think of trading places with me." He got a big laugh but he also got a lot of people thinking.

The problem that victims of racism need to try their best to avoid is using it as an excuse. To do so is to be nailed twice - the first by chance and the second by choice.

Blacks aren't the only victims of racism.

No one's saying that.

Applause. Very well said.

Work needs to be done on both sides of the fence.

Don't condone racism (or be a racist)
Don't fall into the trap of labeling yourself as a perpetual "victim".

(I've actually seen both sides of the race issue. Most people can't tell what my background is.)

- Pie

Well, I guess that answers your own question about where my claim that you said you could only understand racism if you're black comes along.

For the record, I'm not black and I've never been called a nigger. I have been called a number of other things, including "dago" and "wetback". I didn't know what those were; I was pretty amused when I found out the idiot calling those that had used the _wrong_ racial slurs. How many points towards college admission is that worth?

The question is not "does racism exist?" We know it still does.

The question is not "is racism bad?" We all agree that it is.

The question at hand is "do people of a particular color/origin/faith deserve special privileges because some people of their color/origin/faith have been subject to racism?"

People of my color have been put down, therefore society / school / government owes me a greater chance at school awards, scholarships, government contracts etc. as compensation for being the target of racism.

a better chance than your predecessors had, or a better chance than people of other colors?

A better chance than anyone not of my color/faith/origin.

That is, does the government etc. owe me an advantage over other applicants.

no.

It's not easy being green.

Dang, Bruce. I was gonna say that.

You can say it too.:)

What she said.

I don't think we're at the point where Affirmative Action should be dropped. I think the whole concept sucks ass, and I hope I'll see the end of it in my lifetime. And I'm glad to see that society has become more tolerant and understanding of minorities (of all types) in my lifetime, but I think we still have a long way to go.

It's a small price to pay for a mammoth fuck up.

I think it's the wrong solution for a mammoth fuck-up.

I believe strongly in personal responsibility. For example, if an admissions person at your local college passes over entrants because of color/religion/origin that person and their boss should both be fined and/or serve jail time. Ther person for doing it, and the boss because they should know what their people are doing. That puts the negative consequences where they belong - on the perpetrator(s).

Quotas only harm other entrants and continue 'us vs. them' thinking.

I'm interested in hearing how the issue with DaimlerChrysler comes out.

Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal? If it TRULY were, we would never have these conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.

There are hundreds of stories out there that people can tell about their personal experiences with racism and IMO, more people need to listen and realize that just because the Civil Right Movement happened, doesn't mean that things are "ok" now. Sure, they are better...certainly, but there is much more work to be done.

So are you saying that everyone is totally and completely equal now, and need to not worry about being discriminated against at the job, in school, etc.?

You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.

Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...

People who share your argument constantly do. :rolleyes:

Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?


LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering. :haha:


LMAO!OhmyGod, that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb: Wow, I guess because he has never heard a white person call a black person a nigger, THEN IT MUST HAVE NEVER HAPPENED EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND SO IT MUST BE OK!!!!

Only until you stop having constant nuclear meltdowns everytime someone disagrees with ya...deal? :D

{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."

To use your words, "Whoop dee doo". So this means...what? That everyone must react in the same manner as you did?


Oh believe me, I will...in my own way.

But see, I personally don't think that is "our" problem to correct. If one wants to learn, then they know where to go and what to do in order to learn. They need to talk and communicate, but if there is a feeling of "Oh, I can work with 'those' people, but I don't have to be friends with them or understand them", then that's where the problem lies, and historically that has always been part of the problem. I say that we should learn and RESPECT the differences and not use them as weapons. Also, I strongly believe that until society gets truly honest about differences in others and have truthful dialogue, then will things like racism, sexism, classism and all other bad "isms" will slowly start to dissipate and perhaps even be no more.

Duly noted...thanks again.:)

what issue?

But that's not a strong point in the history of many blacks. Many Africans did not come here willingingly (and no, this is not an argument about who sold whom into slavery...that's not for you Wolf, but in a general context), and many of them did not embrace this country (at least not out of some sense of patriotism...the story of The Amistad speaks of this). Then, there was the issue of not even acknowledging blacks as humans or some such nonsense. Sure, we're acknowledged NOW, but still being disenfranchised in certain areas, so how "American" are we really? I mean in EVERY sense of the word? I say it's mainly by either birthright or being sworn in., but in other areas...hm...not sure if we're there just yet.

I wish my Dad was online...he can state a lot of these types of opinions better than I can. ;)

NO because I go on exact WORDS and I did NOT say that only blacks understood racism. I'm coming from a black point of view, so of COURSE I'm going to make my comments centered around black issues. I certainly can't come from a Latino POV now can I?

Nope. I bet you've never been to Erlangen, Germany. Whats your point?



When has the white man NOT had to worry about jobs? The 50s? I'm sorry but the white man is faced by MORE problems than a black man as far as job security. It's MUCH harder to fire a black man than a white one.

Quote:

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- People who share your argument constantly do.

And people who share your argument constantly ignore it.

Just because they've never won doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.

Quote:

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.

Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
Imagine if the white community said "Dude" is a BAD BAD BAD RACIST word, you say it, we'll fire you, sue you, ruin your life. The next day on the subway every single white guy says "Hey whats up dude." "How's it hanging dude" "Dude!" But if a black guy says that...oh no! Can't have that! CRUCIFY HIM!!!

But thanks for ignoring my initial point.

Quote:

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LMAO!OhmyGod, that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, I guess because he has never heard a white person call a black person a nigger, THEN IT MUST HAVE NEVER HAPPENED EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND SO IT MUST BE OK!!!!

Nope but it must be very rare and not the "The sky is falling" kind of crisis you make it out to be.

- Said she after posting how many replies in a row?

Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?

But thanks for ignoring me once again.

Would be nice if they did. I think we'd live in a far happier place.

Yeah alright..whatever that means...as long as it doesn't invovle a train load of posts in 5 seconds.

I've experienced the ugly racism towards "messicans". Based on my looks, I was denied to even be handed a job application for a hotel front desk job, but they would certainly like me in the kitchen. When I informed them that I was not "messican" and also that my ethnic persuasion should really not be a factor, I was reluctantly, nervously ,handed the job application. I took it , but decided I'd rather be in the kitchen anyway (great illegal chorizo tacos). That was 1991, Texas. That was one of countless racist things witnessed. Frankly I was amazed at the tolerance of my latin american pals.

In legal terms, the playing field is now slanted towards certain favored minorities.

Ah. So for every "minority" passed over for promotion because of their minority status, a white male at a different job in a different company will be passed over for promotion because of his non-minority status. For every minority turned down for a bank loan because they're a minority, a white man applying at a different bank will be turned down because he's a white man. That's affirmative action for you. And if you don't understand why you don't have to be a racist to object to it, there's no hope for you.

But wait: I thought he was from South Africa and that they called themselves "Afrikaners" .

While I agree, I again find it ironic that after 8 years, someone NOW has a problem with the award:

"The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration."

So I'd say that the white student doesn't qualify based on the fact that the award is meant for a "black" student. Plus, since many people are so bent on dictionary definitions:

Main Entry: Af·ro-Amer·i·can
Pronunciation: "a-frO-&-'mer-&-k&n
Function: noun
: an American of African and especially of black African descent
- Afro-American adjective

*When you look up "African-American", it directs you to "Afro-American".*

My focus is the "especially of black African descent", because society (for the most part) knowns and understands that Af/American means "black".

Many may not agree with that, but I have yet to hear of a white OR black African who is now an American citizen call themselves "African-American". They normally identify themselves by culture or ethnicity.

It also seems to me that no one didn't have THAT much to say about the term "African-American" in the beginning, but for some reason NOW it causes certain people to have meltdowns galore! If people want to be known as just "Americans" then everyone needs to be treated like one.

So why is it ok to have awards that only black kids are allowed to get but not ok to have awards that only white kids can get?

Where is the equal treatment?

Damn, ladysycamore, why do you not see what is obviously happening here? There's all these programs for "minorities and affirmative action, which in reality is legal racism hiding behind political correctness. There's NOTHING for people who are Caucasian. Because if there was, it would be called racism. I know you're going to debate this and get your panties in a bunch. But you can't deny this. You'd be blind and stupid if you did. You've been trying to prove everyone wrong since the beginning of this thread. I don't think you're going to convert anyone to your cause. It's sad to see a country afraid to do what's right because its citizens are afraid to get sued over being called a racist.

What a stupid statement.